Workflow Tips, Systems, & SEO Strategy w/ Dahlia Orth, HoneyBook Pro

This transcript has been machine-generated and has not been edited for errors.It's a little bit of lead work leading up to, it's kinda like passive income where like you see the benefits on the, on the front end where it's like, oh, I make money in my sleep. But you don't realize how much work it is on the back end to actually get to that point. Hello and welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show Where we provide tips and advice to improve your website's search engine ranking.

I'm Brittany Herzberg, SEO copywriter for Holistic Health and Wellness Pros who want to show up as the answer to a Googled Question. And I'm Crystal Waddell, an e-commerce seller and content creator. I help business owners communicate the value of their products and services through content so you can make more sales and grow your business. We're business besties who love learning and sharing what we've learned.

So what are we waiting for? Let's jump in. Welcome back friend. We are here with Dahlia or my new best friend, not to like bump crystal or anything. She is, she's a system strategist and Honey Book Pro and she has saved my life in the last month and I can't wait to get into like exactly how all of that stuff happened,

but I should probably say hi to Crystal and Dahlia before we do that. Hi. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I'm the, the artist formally known as Brittany's best friends, but that's okay. I'm just kidding. I just have a giant table of best friends. Yes, you do. And I'm glad to be at that table.

But I do have to give a shout out to our sweatshirts. Okay. People? Yes please. So in case this does ever make the internet in some way, check That out. You have sweatshirts. Mer, how come you I can't rock the slide today. I know, But you look beautiful though. You are like lights, camera, action.

Ready? She's the Printing Together for being here. Here. Yeah. Dahlia, do you wanna tell us a little bit about how you ended up here on the show? Sure. Yeah. So thank you both for having me on the show. I'm so excited. I love to nerd out on systems and all the things. So as you said me,

my name is Dahlia or I work as a system strategist and a HoneyBook Pro and that's a fancy way of saying, I basically help people behind the scenes in their businesses set up really strategic and effective systems. I always say a system has to work for you and your business. You can't have one without the other. So what I mean by that is you need to have a system that you enjoy using and that it actually works for your business.

So I help people identify what system that is, how to set that system up, how to use that system. So like I help teach how to use everything too and like everything in between. So a lot of my job is making sure you feel like you have a system that you're confident in using and that actually like serves your business well. So it's really fun.

I love it and I, She's incredible at it. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm super excited to talk about it today. And I think one of my favorite things too is it allows me to connect with people like you guys and just to hear your story beyond the business too. And just being able to serve in that like really tangible way is just,

it's one of my favorite things. So yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I, I sat on Honey book for at least a solid year. I went through Britney McCabe's program, the Five Figure Leap and she was teaching us like how to run a premium copywriting business. So I was like, cool, I'm gonna implement this stuff over in Google. I'm gonna do like the free stuff.

I did pay for Honey Book, but I was just like, yeah, you're cute. One day I'll get over there to it. Yeah, it just felt really intimidating. So this year I was like, I need to get serious about systems. I had the playbook and like the templates and the swipes and everything from Britney Mcbe and I was like,

I just really need to do this. I kind of walked myself through doing the free stuff but I, I got intimidated and I was like, I need to find help and Dahlia and I are actually in a bundle together, so I saw you. I like, I don't know what it was, but I instantly was like, I need to work with her.

She seems nice and like she would like help me. Well that sounds, that's super sweet. I don't mean to interrupt that love vest. That's okay. I'm just thinking that some people may not understand what Honey Book is and may not understand like a CRM customer relationship manager. Is that right? Is that what that stands for? Yeah, like management,

yeah, software. Yeah. Okay. So can you kinda talk about like what that looks like before somebody has Honey Book and then you know why Honey Book can help? Yes. So it's a great like, like thing to mention because I often talk at a, I, I feel like I often talk at a level that is very much like all the lingo like on like workflows,

automations and everyone's like ve and headlights like what are you talking about? And so I'm glad you mentioned that because like you were saying B, that you had Honey book for a year before you really like did a lot with it and there's a lot of like a, you are not alone in that. Let me lead off with saying that there are a lot of people I work with who are like,

this system does amazing things I've heard and I have no idea what I'm doing and I've had it for a long time and I'm using it at the bare minimum and I know I can use it for more. So HoneyBook, yeah, as you mentioned, crystal was a customer relationship management software, which is a fancy way of saying it's a way to do invoicing,

contracts, scheduling, you can do email templates in there. A way to manage all of your client facing services like, like you guys do copywriting, so anybody who wants to come in and and hire you for copywriting, you can say like, Hey, okay here's our invoice, here's our contract. It's a really professional and polished way to do that and there's a lot of options out there.

So I know like Dolly does a lot with DOA and that's a big platform as well, especially in the creative space. Honey Book and DOA are two of the bigger ones and a lot of people say to me like, well how do I know which one to pick? People have the problem too of they pick the one that worked for their friend and then they're like,

why doesn't it work for me? Right. And and so you know, it's really important to one of the very foundational things when considering any type of system in your business and the need for that is like what kind of experience do I want my client to have when they first step into my business and what kind of tool do I need in order to deliver that kind of experience?

So that's where a HoneyBook type platform would come into that. And I always say it's never too early to have a system, even if you're like very, very in the beginning stages of your business, you wanna have a system in place just to like, like I always say, to tee it off where it's like okay, you're gonna start by charging people,

you're going to start hopefully by having a contract in place and you're going to start, you know, emailing back and forth and there are platforms that really make that really easy and that make it really look very professional and help you stand out amongst the rest. Yeah, I want to mention, because this kind of went into my decision making when I was like,

do I actually wanna keep Honey Book and keep using it? Dolly has an episode and I made a note to myself to link to it where she talked with, I think it, I think her name is Caitlin Gray, another person I met in Social Curator. Oh yeah. Who they like went through and they were Likedo versus Honey book, why would you wanna use them,

what do they do? And it's a really good side-by-side comparison to your point. So you know, it would help someone think through, do they want to actually like lean into Honey book but before we get too far down this rabbit hole, which I know that Rabbit Trail. Yeah. What I love asking people this question, what do you think of or how do you describe seo?

Yes. So when you had first asked me that, like in my mind I'm like, oh search engine optimization. I'm like, oh yeah, but then I'm like, what does that actually mean? I always look at SEO as how do I show up on the first page of Google and how can people find me? Like I'm like, like I am very much a person of work smarter,

not harder and I really value time and freedom in my business. So I don't actually love like posting on social media all the time. I wanna have really smart ways that somebody can find me that doesn't necessarily require a ton of effort in my, like on my behalf. So if I can figure out a strategic way for, you know, people to find me on Google or other platforms,

like I wanna invest in that. So that's what I think of when I think of SEO of just like optimizing a website. So you kind of like stand out amongst the rest similar to when you have a system and it's like what makes you stand out amongst the rest in your client experience. I think of that with SEO where it's like being really strategic about how people find you and where they find you and then where you fall on like the competitor list in that too and what makes you stand out amongst the rest.

So I'm like, I'm like, did I get it right? I dunno, 10 outta 10, if I had to get Gold Star I would give you the Gold Star. Amazing. Yeah. Crystal, do you have, do you have thoughts? Oh yeah, well I was just gonna say, I'm compiling a list of everybody's definition, you know,

and I think that everybody's right, you know, it's just, it's all related in some way, you know, so the answer is never really wrong because it's like, what do you think? You know, but I just, I love that so many people are, are saying some of the same things like, you know, obviously getting found on the internet but like working smarter,

not harder. I remember Leah said that as well. So I, I think that's really where SEO Falls is like, man, how can I have a, the biggest impact with the least amount of effort and not, not necessarily least amount of effort, but just like the smartest amount of effort because I don't mean to say SEO's easily easy, but I do mean to say that when you do it right,

you know and you put it in that work, it's gonna last a lot longer than any effort that you would put in on Instagram or social media. So I definitely agree with you on that. Yeah, yeah. Cuz there, there does feel like there's a a shelf life to social media more so than seo. And I know that some of the stuff that you've actually helped work with like podcasts,

right? And especially with like post production. So what are some of the tools or platforms that you like using when it comes to That? So yeah, on the post production side, I have really, I really enjoyed, well Yos being one of 'em. So I work a lot. Well this will get into this probably segue into this conversation. So on the post production side,

once you've edited the podcast, it's published, it's good to go, what do you do with the content after, right? Like that's kind of the like question of like, where do I actually stick the content? Where can I use the content? Because the thing about SEO is it, like you guys are saying there's, there's more of opportunity long term than necessarily like a piece of social media.

And so I do a lot with WordPress and blogging and so yos that plugin is one of my favorite things to use for seo. I'm always, are you guys familiar with, I'm sure with yos and getting like the double green light and everything, how do I get the double green light? Its one of my biggest pet, I'm double green light and I like,

like I am just so like, you know, analytical about it. And so that's one of the biggest ones that I use on the SEO side. And then really one of the workflows I do with a lot of people that I work with podcasts on is we take the content, you know, from the podcast, turn it into a blog post, we take the blog post then and we get it onto Pinterest so that way it can start running traffic to their website to help boost their SEO on that end.

And then we also do it on the email marketing side too. So it's kind of like three different ways. And then in addition I've also done it where people have had it on their social media as well. So like there's so many pockets that like one podcast episode can hit on. And I'm sure like there's more that I haven't even thought of, but those are some of the ways that I've like organically done that behind the scenes and built a workflow out of it.

So, you know, I just really value working smarter, not harder in that I, I'm like okay, we can take one piece of content and we can put it like five different places and that's five different opportunities we have for people to learn who we are and for people to hear about what we do and potentially work with us, right? Like it's,

you never know where an opportunity will lead and so it's just, it sometimes it feels like it's throwing a spaghetti against the wall to see what, what works, but it's purposeful spaghetti I think. Yeah. So there you go. So I have a question just to follow up with what you do on Pinterest, because we've talked about Pinterest before. A lot of people hear about Pinterest and they're intimidated by Pinterest.

Can you tell us how you take something from a podcast and put it on Pinterest? Yes, so I do this, this is kind of like the flow I guess I would say is as far as I have worked on it and set it up for their business owners. So if they come to me and say, Hey, we wanna start blogging our podcast,

get 'em on the blog. So I've done it where we do the blog post first and we take the podcast episode. Usually there's like a lips and link or some kind of link we embed into the blog so that they can go listen to the podcast, drive traffic there, have the blog post, have some like links in there, you know, affiliate links,

things like that. And then if you have an email list, putting it into an email so that they, we can start driving traffic to the website. And then from there I a lot of times make Camba graphics like canbra pin graphics for the podcast episodes. I've even done it as deep as like making a template for the podcast graphics cuz I'm like,

we can just change colors, we can just change who, who's speaking on the podcast and then we throw 'em onto Pinterest. And then from there, if you are a Pinterest user, highly, highly recommend investing in the Tailwind because Tailwind again is another set it and forget it type thing. So you go into Tailwind and you can pre-schedule like hundreds of pins at once and they can just be on a rolling queue schedule.

So for a one podcast episode, I could make one graphic, you know, in Pinterest, but I could make, like, I can schedule it to go out 20 different times over the course of like three months. And so again, you never know where like what's going to work. And then what you start seeing on Pinterest is as you make graphics in Canva,

you know, and you link the, what what I would do is link the blog post to your, to the, the link in Pinterest so it can drive traffic to the website, which can drive traffic to the podcast episode. And then you just, you do, you just, you just preschedule them to boards and then you let Tailn do the work for you.

So it's a little bit of lead work leading up to, it's kind of like passive income where like you see the benefits on the, on the front end where it's like, oh I make money in my sleep, but you don't realize how much work it is on the back end to actually get to that point. So there is a little bit of like work on the front end in order to like really reap the benefit of like enjoying the freedom that Tailwind can provide when you get everything on Pinterest.

But once you do those things then it, it just becomes like a lot of second nature. Like it becomes like, oh yeah, like it's just part of your flow. You know, you get the podcast episode out, the blog post is live, you know, put it in your email list, you make the Canva graphics for Pinterest, you start to build those out,

entail in preschedule them, optimize them for keywords and then again set it and forget it. So I've had it before on podcasts where I have prescheduled like, I don't know, six months of content, maybe three to six months of content with a couple of episodes just because you could make multiple, you can make multiple pins and you can preschedule them all the time.

And then to go a level deeper there in Tailwind there's a thing called smarter cue. So the one, the pins that are performing the best, it'll you just make Crystals morning. Yeah, there you go. The ones that are performing the best will then, you know, you can queue up to like, like go out more frequently. So yeah,

I'm like, I feel like I just said like a million things there. That was good and it was so thoughtful and strategic too, Right? I really, yeah, I love how you laid that out for everybody. And the thing that I really wanna pull out is what you said towards the end and that that relates to SEO is the keywords. So like could you talk really quick about like how those keywords play a role even on Pinterest getting that traffic back to your website?

Yes, so it's interesting, Pinterest is a little different. Like it's like it's different in what people are looking for. So one of the biggest things to keep in mind when working in Pinterest is to do your work on the front end of what people are actually looking for in Pinterest because that'll determine what kind of keywords you use. And it's not always the keywords we think are the obvious keywords.

So one of the things I always recommend to people is going into Pinterest and just literally like Searchie, you know, Searchie a topic. Like if, like if, you know, if we're having this conversation like how to, you know, optimize a podcast for seo that sounds like a really great thing somebody would click on hypothetically, but is that actually what somebody's looking for?

Right? Like, and so it might look different and then, you know, you can, you can optimize your pin that way and to to, to write it in a way like the description in a way that people are actually looking for it. And so that way it's similar to SEO and Google, like, will you actually show up on the top?

You won't if you're writing in, if you're using keywords that people aren't actually looking for. So that's always the strategy behind it is just really putting that intentional effort in to make sure that the keywords are actually things people are looking for that they actually show up at the top of Pinterest. What are the most like, well converting pins for that topic and why are they converting well,

what do they look like? What's the aesthetic of them, what are the keywords they're using? Like looking at other people's descriptions too, like can help you with keywords as well. So, cause you, you know, like what's getting traffic? So I don't, I think a lot of times we can get paralyzed by like how do I actually do it?

You know, and just learning from, you know, removing the guesswork by just learning kind of what what has worked for other people and other business owners in that. Okay. So one last follow up on that. So are you saying that we know, know what's working for other people because they're showing up at the top of the Pinterest result? Is that what you say when or what you mean when you say we know what's working?

Yeah, so if you were to look up, like I always look at like the top converting like pins and I click on them and then I wanna look at the description too. Cause I wanna see what kinda keywords they're using in that because that is what's showing up when you search in the Pinterest side. So if you were to say like, you know,

I'm trying to think of a very generic like how to, you know, I, I thought about in this moment was like how to build a birdhouse or something. Like something very, something very like you would think that it's easy cause Pinterest is very much about, a lot of, a lot of people go on it for the purpose of how to or inspiration or they like,

they wanna feel like they can find something that, you know, somebody else has already done well and, and how can you tell that they're converting or are you just talking about pins? A lot of the, the conversions are really link clicks will be that like a lot of the conversion like data will come from your back end of tail end. But like impressions or is it like,

are there, are they getting a lot of traffic by like going to their profile? You wanna look at that. Like if you click on the pin and then you go see like how many like followers they have, things like that. Like what kind of things are working on the backend for them? So the conversion though, because the hard thing about it is everything changes all the time,

you know, so the conversion of that is really gonna come on the analytics side of your own tail end to see what's actually working and how many like the, the link clicks is really where we wanna see the conversion of that. And so I'm not really sure if you can see it on the front end of someone else's pin. That's the one thing,

like if you can see the impressions, you can see all those different things. I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna pop into Pinterest really fast while we're on this conversation and just look really quickly cause I randomly got a, I got a, oh, okay. So yeah, so your pin clicks is what you wanna see. That's like, you wanna see how many people are going from I see your pin,

I'm interested in this and I'm going to click wherever the link takes me. And the pin, the pin clicks will really tell you that. And then on the back end of tail end and Pinterest, you can look at like the nitty gritty data in there, but it's, correct me if I'm wrong, it's probably similar to SEO where you wanna see like the backlink clicks and you wanna see like where people are actually going to once they find you.

Correct. Yeah, it's like the traffic to the page and, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just wasn't sure. Cause again, everything's always ever evolving. So I'm like, is that so on there? But then what's cool about on the tail side, you can actually see like specifically what is converting it like, like about the pin or like you can look at the pin data itself,

like you can can look at all of that. The the little nitty gritty analytics, which again, for somebody like me, like I enjoy that. But for, you know, some people might be like really overwhelmed by that. Certainly just be like, am I just gonna throw like pin pins out there, Dalia and like hope for the best. You know,

I will say Pinterest is a very, you have to be very intentional. You have to be thoughtful about it. You have to be, there is like, it's like seo, like there's legwork on the front end to reap the benefit on the back end. So it, I, I will not say like, oh you can just go and do all like go and make some pins and put 'em out there.

Like there's strategy behind it. Absolutely. But it's worth its strategy that's for sure. Like, because you just, again, you don't know where, you don't know what's going to convert. And so as you start putting content out there on that platform, again, the nice thing about Pinterest is you can schedule it for a good long while and then you can repurpose a lot of content on there.

So I like how you're bringing up the point of being intentional and thoughtful on the front end, both with Pinterest and with SEO because, and even, I mean going back to HoneyBook, which is one of the big things that you're here to talk about, all of those things, you have to be really thoughtful and really strategic and it helps you work smarter,

not harder in the long run, but it does feel like a little bit of work up front. But if you do that work, you're gonna get more quality leads. You're gonna have, you know, a better feeling about your business, you're gonna perform better, your clients are gonna have a better experience, they're gonna like you refer you and it's just like you're gonna get all those connections that you want because everything is clicking and working so well.

I really like that you brought that up about being intentional. So I was wondering like with this, with this podcast workflow that you're talking about, is that all within Honey Book and you know, even like say the emails, does Honey Book work as like the piece that actually sends the emails like an email service provider? Or does it just set up the structure?

Are You maybe another way to say this would be like, can it support you from beginning to end? Right? Is that kind of another way to say what you're thinking? Yeah, yeah. No, it's a great question because I actually get that often. Like can Honey book do like, like what a flow desk can do. So Honey Book is really,

so you guys use Honey Book a lot for, for the front end of podcast guests, like having people apply for the podcast and then learning about who they are once they are a guest on your podcast. And then like thinking them putting all the graphics there. So that's all like the, like the guest facing side, the post production side Honey book would not be the most appropriate tool for,

it would just not be the best fit tool. That would be more of like, I've used it in Floes would be a great one. A lot of people use Blow Desk to then talk about their podcast on the email marketing side, a convert kit a like if you have a Kajabi or something like that. But whatever your email marketing platform is, that would be where I would say your email,

like if you're gonna blast your email list about a new podcast episode, do it in, in one of those platforms. If you're a show it user and you have a blog like the WordPress side of that or even Squarespace, your website is obviously where your blog belongs. And so that would be the platform to then do the blogging on. I will say one of the things that I have used before,

it's a plugin for WordPress is called Elementor and you can actually create like templates, like blog templates out of that. So that's been a really great tool on the backend. And then as far as obviously like the Pinterest side, tailwind is where I would recommend people be. So the only thing I will add to this is one of the things I have found incredibly beneficial is especially as you're pushing more content out,

like I don't know how many podcasts you guys publish all the time, but I have like a podcast library template that I keep all of the information about. Like what episode is it, what day did it air, what's the title of the episode, who is the guest? What kind of guest were they? Were they like a guest educator? Were they,

you know, an expert in something? I have then and there the podcast link, like where the podcast can be found, the blog link, once we publish the blog link, any graphics we make for it can all be found in there. And then I just have the status of has it been published and is it scheduled to tail end and do we need any approvals on it?

So that sounds like a little bit of a beast, but it has been one of the most beneficial things to help organize my clients with their workflows. Because what then when they say to me, Hey Dalia, where's the link for Ex like whatever episode it was, I'm like, oh quickly I can find it. And that's been, that has also allowed me to see like what kind of phase,

like where like what else needs to happen, what, what phase of the pipeline are we in with getting this like fully successfully like done. So that's been really beneficial. We totally need that. Okay. So yeah, cause I'm thinking, I'm like, oh man, we've got all those pieces flying around is like everywhere. That's it before it leaves there you,

Yeah, yeah. But you know, I, I've tried to, you know, capture those things in Asana like in the Lewis or whatever. So that's what it kind of sounds like to me. Kind of like a Postproduction Asana, Trello board. Actually I'm not using Asana. I always say Asana cause I used to use Asana. It's Trello board.

We've also tried Click Up. Um-huh Are ood that so sad. So are you telling me that Honey Books postproduction or you can use Honey Book in post production for those types of checklists? Is that what you're saying? Or do you use a different program? Yeah, no, that, that would be better for a different program. So Honey Book will be all the way up to leading probably to publishing the podcast with the guests and saying like,

Hey, your podcast is live here are all the deliverables from it. But then on the, on the post production side, it would be, I personally use one called Notion, which I'm happy to show you guys how that works after. And I've, I love Notion one for, it's very affordable and it's been a really great tool to organize all of this information.

And I like, like, like I'm a big fan of like color coding, things like that. Cuz I had worked in as so too and I worked in Click up as well. And yeah, I've just found that that was a similar, I was one of those like ideal clients of myself is just, I was like, this doesn't work well for me.

I don't love, I don't love using Asana or Click Up, I know how to use 'em. But I'm like, oh okay. And then Notion was really what changed the game for me and I would be more of an Asana, a click up type thing. Now I have worked with some clients who like, especially use click up, especially for the statuses.

Like you can, you can change the color statuses in click up based on where things are at in the process of the post production. So it's really, again, it's, it's whatever works well for you and your business. For me, when I was managing, you know, when I was working on the post production podcast side for a few clients,

I was like, I need to know where everybody's at and what phase of the process and I just, I couldn't personally keep that all together in a platform like a son or click up. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work. It just was different than my needs at the time. And I, you know, what worked for me was in Notion so that those would be probably top,

some of the top three. monday.com is also another one I know people use. But you know, one of the things that I always educate people on is being considerate of like obviously the investment that's involved and then will you actually use the tool like you actually like using it. That's a, that's, I feel like that's an often overlooked thing is it might work really well for what you guys want are one to accomplish.

But like if you never go in it cuz you don't actually enjoy like looking at the board, like it kinda defeats the purpose, you know? So yeah, just finding something that that works I think all across the board and that can be easily used for your team too, is Huge. I wanna try Notion now because Click up, click up didn't like me for one,

but I wasn't drawn to using it. Right? Like, just like you were saying, I've been in, not, not the same thing necessarily, but I've been in Slack recently on a project, not a fan. And then Trello, I learned to love Trello. But again, that's a lot of setup, right? It was a lot of setup.

So I can't necessarily get my head around that where like I can go in and be the one to set it up and, and do the things and normally like that's kind of a task that I've taken on when it comes to the podcast projects. So I'm very curious about Notion because you're the second person I've talked to this week that's talked about it. So I'm like,

I wanna check out Notion, Yes. Not to, not to go too far down those tools. Cause I know this, these don't really have too much to do with seo, but have you ever heard of Whimsical? I've heard of it. I've never used it though. Is that another same kind of thing? Yeah. Well it's interesting how you're saying like if you like it and you're,

that you're drawn to it because I'm, I'm the same way with B, you know, like click up. I wanted to love Click Up. I love the idea of click up, but then I couldn't find anything and click up. I'm like, where did we create this? You know? And so it ended up taking more time just to figure out like where we had nested some sort of to-do list.

Then it's like, oh this is no fun, but I do love Trello. So be, I'm coming back for you on Trello because I can create those lists. I love Making List and Trello of do Trello every day now for the blog. And, but Whimsical is so fun. If you like diagrams and you like color, oh That's in your gym.

Yeah, I love, and I've sent b my diagram, like I actually have one page in Whimsical or I've created like 10 diagrams of like customer journey stuff and it's, oh my gosh, it's just fun, you know, because you can, you know, you know, draw the workflow essentially. It's like, okay, you start here and then once this happens,

this happens. Because I think that's also important for people to understand that anytime you use a tool and even HoneyBook, you know, for me personally, I had to understand my workflow, you know, from a practical level before I could set it up digitally. And so to be able to see how it goes and to be able to say, okay,

this is step one, this is step two, this is step three. Really nailing that down before you set up all of the, you know, like you said, big words, automations and that type of stuff Yeah. Is so key because it's like, oh when you do it the opposite way, stuff is outta order and it gets really confusing.

And yeah, I was just gonna say the fact that I reached out to Dahlia and was like, I need help with Honey book. And she, the first thing she said, what's your workflows? What are your workflows? And I was like, okay, I can put this together. I can, like, it was so motivating to kind of be on the hook for someone else to need to get that together for someone else because it's lived in my head,

but that doesn't help anyone, especially me. So it was really helpful to have her need that from me and me to sit down and go, okay, what does this actually look like? And I got pretty granular in my head at least. I felt like I got pretty granular where I was like, I kept apologizing. I was like, I'm sorry if this is too detailed.

And I loved it. I was like, no, this is Great. And I think this is a conversation that's applicable to any part of your business, whether you're talking about STO strategy or you're talking about, you know, what it looks like to take a, a physical product order and fulfill it. You know, like all of those things are essentially workflows or steps from start to finish of how something gets done.

And my husband, you know, at the times he's seen me most overwhelmed, he's like, look, I wanna help you just write it down. Tell me what I need to do. And he had said that for years, you know? Yes. And it took me like four or five years before I actually started writing things down. And then once you write things down,

that's when you start realizing, oh, I can create a template for this. Yes. You know, or these things are always the same or these are the pieces that are always the same and then it makes it easier. But it's just taking that first step of like actually getting it out of your head on paper and in some sort of order, even if it's not perfect,

you know, like at least it's out there and now you can kind of try it out. Like go through your workflow and see if it actually works and then see what you've missed. You know, that's, that's what I did and I realized, oh my gosh, like my life is actually easier now. Do I have workflows for everything that I need to have workflows for?

No. But I know that it works, it's worked for some parts of my business, so I know it would work for others too. Yeah, well I was gonna say too, the, the scaling conversation of if you wanna scale your business, a lot of people don't have them ready to go. You know, like they're like, they're kind of like,

oh my gosh, like we had all this growth and now like it's all in my head and yeah. And, but like I can't keep up with the growth, you know? So I think one of the things that people forget about a lot is the value of a workflow or the value of knowing your client process and having that documented somewhere. Whether it's just a piece of paper for now and,

and having that in mind for when growth comes. Cause I always say it's not, if the growth comes, it's when the growth comes and like being ready for, you know, like being ready for it. I mean, really in some ways, because a lot of, I think one of the biggest pain points I experience with business owners is they come to me and say,

I cannot keep up and I'm drowning in my business now and I need help getting this all in place. And so like one of my missions is to like say like, just write your workflow down in the beginning, you know, but it's, it's, it's true too. When you're ready to hire a team, even like if you're ready to bring on a virtual assistant or something on your team,

like somebody in your, into your business, they're gonna look at you and say, what's your process? What's your workflow? Right? You're gonna say like, what do you actually do in your business? And it's just really important as a business owner to kind of get it, get it out of our heads, and then put it somewhere that, you know,

works for the business and for us, you know, that's digital at some point in the process. So yeah, it's, it's, I always like, I always say, I wanna try to help you avoid that. Like that really overwhelming paralyzing moment by just, you know, thinking like on the forefront of those things. Well, And I can speak to,

sorry Crystal, this happens where we both get like super excited. I can speak to just quickly the fact that I've worked on two teams now. They've brought me in as a writer on a project. One experience was amazing because they had systems, they had processes, they explained it to me, they had, everything was written out. I mean at one point it was probably on a piece of paper.

They had actual workflows. I knew who to contact about different things. The other team, it was a very different, very not good experience where it was like I, because I had worked with the other team, first I knew kind of what I should expect and I went to this other team and I wasn't getting like the timeline. I wasn't getting like,

here's exactly what you're responsible for, here are the exact deliverables that we need and when we need it and what that should look like and who you can contact. It was just, it makes for not only a better client experience or customer experience depending on if you have service based business, business or products. It's also really good for, like you said,

the team members that you're working with, whether it's a contractor or a full-time employee. Yeah, absolutely. The thing I wanted to add to what we were talking about here is, I'll link it in the show notes, but Brian Dean of Backlinko has some amazing templates for seo and I sent them, did you get my email be I did. I was very overwhelmed by it that I'm like,

one day I'm gonna look through this and be really excited. It was just, yeah, no, I'm excited for it one day. Okay. Yeah. And so that's the thing. But if you are looking for, everybody is always coming to me like how do you do an SEO strategy? You know, and I'm very much one of those people.

It's like I, I don't like to do what's already been done. Like I'm trying to do what I think is happening tomorrow, which is probably not the best business model in the world because people want what's already been done. Yeah. But if you want what's already been done or what's already working or just like a template for that, Brian Dean and Backlinko have created some amazing resources and I'll link to that because it talks about,

you know, going through your keyword strategy and essentially what it does is give you a workflow to follow. And I know that that workflows bring comfort, you know? Yeah. Like when you have a structure that you can follow, especially from someone that is in authority in the area, you might feel a little bit more confident in your own ability to make that happen for your business.

Because we're talking about seo, I wanna definitely make sure that I share that because I just found it this week and I thought, oh my gosh, this is the answer to everybody's question. You know? And some people might say, oh yeah, well you know, you're gonna take business away from yourself or whatever. And I'm like, look, there's some people who wanna do it themselves.

Okay? And if you wanna do it yourself and you wanna do it right, you need to do the use this resource, right? If you wanna do it right, but you want a honey book expert, then you need to talk to Dahlia. You know, if you wanna do it right, but you want someone else to do your, your copywriting,

then you need to call B. And if you wanna do it right, but you want someone else to do it for you, you know, in terms of content, you know, then you need to call Crystal. You know? So I know that there are people out there that wanna do it themselves. Other people who might say, I'm glad that you follow a procedure of a trusted resource and they still want us to do it for them.

So that's why I wanna put that out there and say, Hey, you know, this is something that I, I think is a great resource. I'm gonna use it, you should use it. And yeah, just wanted to put that out there for everybody. I love it. I want to share a little bit about what it was like working with U Dolly and how you helped me and by extension Crystal with the podcast stuff.

And then there's probably a couple more questions that I'll get to. But to start off, so I, like I said, I had Honey book, I was sitting on it, I had no idea what to do, I was just overwhelmed. I thought of like, I wasn't drowning in work at the time, but I was very much like, I know I'm gonna scale this thing.

I know it's gonna get to a point where I need to not be writing every single email when I sit down to write that email. And I knew that a lot of stuff was like replicatable and templatizable and all that stuff. So I found you, you asked me for the workflows. We did a, correct me if I'm wrong, it was a half day setup.

Yeah, yep. It was amazing. I was expecting to get like, you know, a solid nice little thing, like a cute little package you like way over delivered. I don't know if you know how I do that. She like way Over. So she was able to help me put stuff in place for my copywriting business and for the podcast,

which we have since split off and they're now under like two different umbrellas in Honey Bun. Yeah. So if you're listening and that's something that you need to consider. Or even like Crystal has the product based business with Collagen Wood and then she's got the copywriting and SEO stuff under Crystal Waddell. It's really cool because you can kind of peel them apart. But if I'm focusing specifically with like the podcast workflows I had,

I did that workflow first. I knew exactly what it looked like to have like the podcast guests come on. I knew what I needed to do for the episodes, but you installed, you know, emails, I just had to draft them. You installed, you created, I'm probably gonna mess up the wording, but you created like the automations and there's these things called like smart files.

And so it's just, it's nice cuz everything's in there and I can go in and tweak it or every time I send something to a person I can modify it. But is there anything that you wanna speak to on that with anybody that's even just like, I have HoneyBook and I don't know what to do or this sounds cool and I need to go check out HoneyBook.

Sure. Yeah. Well it's funny because one thing, first thing I'll speak on is a thank you for your sweet encouragement and kind words. Like I always love hearing when it's a great experience cuz I'm always like, I just always, you know, you always wanna refine it too. Like if it's not, you're like how do we make it better?

So that was huge. And B, a lot of people say to me like, well why should I hire a pro? Or why should I, like why should I bring somebody in behind the scenes? Can't just do it all myself. And you totally could like I'll not That Advice, I'll take opportunity from you. Like would like, girl you got this,

go on, do stuff. Right. Also my, Yeah, like I'm like here, I'll drop that in there. When I say the benefits of having somebody who positions themself as as an expert, whether it's me or somebody else, is that, you know, you, you really get somebody who can like expedite that process for you and say like,

yep, I can do all of this really quickly. And then they can also like, you know, I know, I know with our experience, like a lot of the, any kind of like if there was a glitch in something or if there was an adjustment that needed to be made, you were able to reach out to me and say like,

Hey can we do this? And I'm like, yes or no, like, and if we were able to do it, I was like, yep, got it. I'm on it. And it was like a really, like one of the things was like a benefit of a really fast turnaround of just like, I need this now. And like I would love your help in that,

you know? Yeah. And, and yeah and then just the experience of like, like I really, I deeply value people's time and I'm like, you know what? They invest like harder money into me and I wanna make the most of this time for them and I want you to have like most bang for your book. And yeah, like just having like those workflows in place now,

being able to tweak those workflows. And then another benefit I had this conversation with someone recently is, and I think you and I talked about it too, was some of the migration between your brands was just like, one of the things we had talked about was you have multiple brands in your honey book account. So we have the copy by B and then the podcast side cuz you can have multiple brands in HoneyBook,

but you can actually take files from each of those brands and migrate 'em over to each brand and working with a pro, again, expedites that process for you a little bit because you don't have to be the one to like copy and paste it all over or like take it all over. Or even like the workflow, like, you know, taking all of those pieces and parts you've built in your one workflow and into your other brand.

So that's always like, I feel like part of my job is always trying to convince people of the felt need you experience when it's done. Like I'm like, yeah, I always say, I think I say it on my website, like, I want you to breathe a sigh of relief, quite literally thinking like, I, like I don't have to worry about this cuz it's working for me now.

And it's set up strategically and it's set up in a way that like is cohesive to my brand and it looks good and it feels professional and polished. So yeah, it's, it's one of the, I think, benefits of hiring an expert in your business to just come in like clean up all the pieces and parts behind the scenes. I always say like,

I never judge somebody's business cuz they're always like, it's a mess, don't judge. I'm like, no, no. Like there's no judgment here. Like no one will know your secrets. But yeah, it's, it's a great joy to be able to kind of just clean it up, organize it, streamline it, and then here the fruit on the back end of that to hear about like,

you know, months later like, oh my goodness, like the time I got back with my family or the time I was able to do something that I was like that I love or the project I was able to finish now because I had the time to do it and I wasn't knee deep into like, you know, all of the things behind the scenes.

So yeah, there was something else I was gonna mention about that. Oh, the one thing I was gonna mention too is like, how to know when it's time to hire somebody out. Yeah. Is it's, it's the tell or the telltale question of how to know when it's time to outsource is when you are at a point in your business where it's no longer the best use of your time to handle any of those details.

And you, you'll never get it done. Right. Like, if you don't actually love doing it, if you're like, systems overwhelm me, I don't like being in spreadsheets, I don't like being in the backend of a system, then hire it out. Cause it's really valuable. You may not see the value of it right away of just like,

well is it, should I invest in my brand or should I invest in a system? Like, you know, you can decide that, but as your business grows, the value will be there as we've talked about in this episode of just like workflows and having processes in place and all of those things, things. And you may eventually get to a point where you're like,

okay, I have no choice but to do it. Like I have to do it now. You know what I mean? Totally on everyone's Sure. Because I, as you were talking, I was like, you know what's possible, you as the expert know what's possible with HoneyBook. So a lot of my questions have been can we do this? Yeah.

Is this a thing? Am I dreaming too big? Like, is there some way that the system can help support this thing that I have envisioned? So that was maybe the most, like the biggest benefit for me was like, you knew what was possible with Honey Book. Just Like, I mean, you can ask me to do an SEO audit,

I'll do it, I will be so happy, I will sit there for hours, I will analyze everything but making me do my own system, I'm like, I don't, this doesn't sound joyous for me All. No, yeah, no, I understand that. I get that. Cause like SEO does not sound joyous. I'm like, I have no idea.

Like, I know, I know some things, but yeah, I, I would And that's the beauty of right, of everybody having their own skill sets that they can bring to the table. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And what it, it reminds me of like, systems and SEO are very similar in that you, you don't see the results right away.

But I'm guessing, and I wanna, I want to know your thoughts on this. I'm guessing that just like seo people wish they had invested in systems earlier. By the time they realize yeah, life could be easier. They're like, why didn't I do this, you know, years ago or months ago or whatever. I mean, has that been your experience as well?

Yes. 1000%. Like the amount of people, you know, there's always a learning curve that comes with systems, especially like, just making sure that you know how to use it and you understand how to use it. But once you kind of push past the learning curve and you're like, oh, I see the benefit now I see why this matters.

There's this excitement and that like that quite literal like, wow, like I can actually enjoy doing stuff in my business again and why didn't I do it sooner? It's always, I feel like part of my job is always trying to help somebody like see what is potential, like what the potential experience will be on the other end of that. Because a lot of times people,

they're nervous. I, and I understand why they're nervous. They're like, well this system work for me. I I trust you with my business. So like, I don't know if I, like, that's a really nerve-wracking thing to me. And I, I can't emphasize enough the amount of people who have said to me like, man, I'm so grateful.

Like, I'm so grateful I did it and I'm so grateful that I now have this stuff in place and I can feel good about coming into the system and I can feel good about, you know, answering my clients they're being cared for. Cause that's one of the things too is systems really help with touch points with clients. Like, and that, that you don't have to be the one necessarily sending all the emails Cause we often forget,

right? Like a lot of people say to me, people slip through the cracks all the time because I forget to respond to them and that equates to I lose leads and then I lose revenue. Right? Like when we think about the ripple effect of that. So yeah, when people see kind of like the bigger picture of having a really solid system in place,

they often say like, man, I'm so glad I invested now, but I wish I had done it sooner. But I'm so glad I invested in it now. You know? Yeah. I feel like I'm the complete opposite of what you just described because I was losing sleep, I was losing time, I was, I, the touchpoints are incredibly important to me.

So I was like burning myself out to the point where I was like, everyone's gonna get a touchpoint, but I'm hurting myself. Yeah. In the end. Yeah. So having all that stuff automated was like, I really did, like you talked about taking a si relief, I was so giddy excited the day that our, our setup came up because I'm like,

stuff is gonna get done and I don't have to do anything other than just like, make sure Dahlia has everything that she needs from me. I was like ridiculously excited. That's so great. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a big question too. I think that's another benefit of working with like a pro in some of those things is like,

I, like I remember you saying to me like, how available do I have to be on this day? You know, do I have to be like with you all the time holding my hand? No girl. Like the whole thing for me was, yeah. Like I was like, I was like, you feel like you can just live your life and you let somebody else handle that for you.

Which I know is very like, you have to trust that person, right? Like I never take that responsibility lightly of like, they're trusting me deeply with a lot, a big weight in their business and I wanna care for it. Well, and so yeah. I always love that people say like, I really valued that I didn't have to be available to you all day and you were just handling everything for me behind the scenes and it was done.

Like, it was just there. It's, you know, It was incredible. Right. I know we have to wrap up. Crystal, do you have another thing before we get on the fine? Okay. So do you have anything that you can share with our listeners if they are like, honey book sounds really interesting, or Dalia sounds really interesting and I wanna connect with her.

Is there anything that you have to share? Sure. I mean, so if you go to my website, it's just dalia worth.com. I always said spell Cause everyone's like, what is that? Like the flower? Exactly. And I'm on Instagram at dalio dot, or there's some previews on the website. One, one is like five ways, like,

like a jumpstart guide just setting up your HoneyBook. So if you're like, Hey, I'm, I'm new to Honey book. I don't know where to start with that. Like, you can go in there and like look at like that little guide that's like, Hey, there's also some blog posts of like, like there's one on there that might be beneficial for like four tasks to start automating in HoneyBook.

And I walk through like video tutorials of how to get a few tasks set up right on the front end of working with HoneyBook. And then of course, like if you're in a season of, you know, I really need this in my business and I don't have the margin to set it up or I don't, especially cuz like historically with the holidays we're going into slower times.

Like it might be a really good time to set that up. Yeah, you can reach out on my website or there's the honey book pros page. You can contact me there. My Instagram. So there's, there's a, there's a few different pockets there, but I love people and I just, I like, I, I, my big thing is your system,

like you are beyond your system. Like there's a person behind that system, there's a business behind that system and I deeply value the people that I get to serve. And so, yeah, I just would love to hear like people's stories and, you know, get to know people beyond their business. So yeah, that's been really fun about this experience and it's been a great joy to be on this podcast and to serve you guys in that way and your business.

And I'm excited. I I love, I love getting you talk about it. So a huge thank you again for having me. Of course. I'm excited to hear your system helps. All the things behind the scenes. I Know. Well it was really funny to have you go through the process. It was like, could I maybe be on the podcast?

And I was like, yeah, you know where the link is. Like just go ahead and fill out the form. Know if the automation is working. Yeah, yeah. I literally said to you last night, I was like, I feel so cared for in this process because of how intentional, like you're a process and that really is a, an a tribute to your,

your intentionality and your process. Be so well done, my friend, cuz I did, I was like, man, I, I feel like I'm well prepared. I feel valued in it. I feel seen and like it, like I said, it's a great like blessing and joy to be sitting here and talking to you guys about it. So My heart,

so happy. Well Done for you too. Yeah, clapping. Thank You. Thanks for being here. Yeah, all the claps. This was so fun. And I'm sure there will be questions or thoughts. Of course there's gonna be the, the conversation thread in this episode. So whatever play you're listening to this on, just like look for the thread.

You can leave us a voice memo, you can leave us a text. If it's for Dalio, we can get it to her. I'm excited to see what people have to take away from this or, you know, if there are any other remaining questions. Yeah, yeah, any questions. Send them my way. I'm always happy to answer them.

So I Love it. Do we have anything else we need to, to share Crystal? No, but it was so nice to meet you. You're such a neat person and I love what you've done. So you guys, kudos amazing process that you've created and I think we've all got a lot to think about, you know, in terms of workflows and how we wanna move forward with our business and,

and how we want people to feel about how, like you said, they're cared for in our process. That really stuck out to me. So I'm leaving today thinking about that. So thank you so much for being here. Yes, absolutely guys. Thank you. Thanks Ladies. All right. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye Bye. Bye.

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