Profit, Pricing & the Power of SEO: A Conversation with Jamie Trull (Part 1)

0:00Introduction and Guest Welcome

0:00Jamie TrullEspecially women tend to put a strong arm up and they're like, I don't need that. I don't need that much money. Like it's like a badge of honor to not be motivated by money. Right? But we don't have to be motivated by money to realize, hey, money may not buy happiness exactly, but there's a lot of stuff it can buy.

And it can buy food for hungry children, right? It can buy opportunities for people who don't have them.

It can buy time with our families and like memories. There's just so many things

that we can do with it.

0:26Crystal WaddellWelcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast.

I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out.

So grab a coffee or your favorite tea. And let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business.

0:47CrystalWelcome back to the Simple and smart SEO show podcast.

Wow. So excited to be here with, I would probably call her one of my online heroes.

We've actually become somewhat friends over the

1:00years.

And a little bit like colleagues as well.

I really appreciate my guest today. Her name is Jamie Trull.

And she is a profit strategist at JamieTrull.com. And also balancecfo dot com.

She's here today to talk about her new book.

Jamie, welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show podcast.

I'm so excited that you're here.

1:20Jamie TrullI am so excited to be on here. And I can't believe it took this long to

do this.

I feel like I've known you forever, but thank you.

Also, I'll take hero. But thank you for not calling me a guru.

1:35CrystalWell, I am glad I didn't say that.

1:36Jamie's Impact on Business

1:37And just to set the stage so people know. Jamie actually saved my business a few years ago. I was the first person to sign up for,

1:45Jamie TrullMm-hmm. Yep.

1:46Crystalyour first big course, right? so that's like my claim to fame in Jamie's world.

But one of the things I learned in the course is that I could sell zero photo props for the rest of my life and make as much or more money than I was making at the time.

Because my pricing was so bad and so low. And I couldn't figure out.

I was like, where's all my money going?

So Jamie's insight helped me to double my prices overnight and become profitable immediately! After struggling for years.

And so that's why, you know, you're my hero. Because otherwise I wouldn't be in business anymore.

2:18Pricing Strategies and Profitability

2:18Jamie TrullI love those stories because it is possible to make more by doing less.

That's like one of the biggest lessons that it takes a while to learn in business. 'cause we're so used to just doing more and more and more and more and more. And we think that that's the equation to success, but it really isn't.

That's the equation to burnout.

2:36Crystalyou're exactly right. And I had heard of terms like average order value. And that type of thing.

2:41Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

2:42CrystalBut it was after taking your course and learning like, there's different levers that you can pull to become more profitable. I was like, oh my gosh.

I could create a different product that is at a price point where I make more than something else that takes more time.

And for example, I make collages.

3:00And so I had photo collages and then I also had these giant photo props.

Giant photo props take about five minutes to pick up, put in a box, send on their way.

The collages take days, you know?

3:10Jamie TrullYeah.

3:10CrystalEssentially, the price points were about the same.

And I realized I need to start focusing more on the photo props. And I was so scared. I was so scared the day you told me I needed to raise my prices.

Or I was, you know, gonna make $0.

I doubled 'em overnight. I was afraid people weren't gonna buy 'em.

I've sold more. And there's been times where I've sold less, but I've made more.

3:31Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

3:31Crystalthings that you taught me, they all, they all came true. So thank you.

3:35Jamie TrullI love it. I love it. That's, that is why I enjoy doing what I do because I think those little just like little tweaks and little aha moments.

And yours was specific, like you, I was like, you can stair step, you know, you can like gradually increase your prices and you were like, Nope, I did it all overnight.

3:51CrystalYep.

3:52Jamie TrullI'm not working like this anymore.

Oftentimes we forget to factor in our own labor, right?

Especially as an owner, as a solopreneur.

Your labor probably doesn't show up on

4:00your profit and loss as a solopreneur, right? So you kind of forget to value that in the equation.

But if you're making, you know, $2 an hour on one thing.

And $50 an hour on another thing.

That's one of the levers I talk about for profit levers, is mix.

Like, which one should you sell more of?

And then also let's look at pricing for the one that's not making enough. So you were such a great student and I do remember you being the first person to buy.

You were kind of like that virtual, first dollar, you know, like if I had a storefront, I would put your purchase.

You'd be that first dollar that I was like, oh my gosh, someone bought this thing.

You know, what, 7, 6, 7 years ago now? It's been a while.

4:36SEO Success Stories

4:36And now we've been able to work with you on lots of things. And now you actually help me with my SEO. So, for those

4:41CrystalYeah.

4:42Jamie Trullthat don't know, crystal is my SEO person.

She helps me SEO-ify our blogs. And really like spread our message.

I've just been shocked to see, you know, we were a content machine. We're making all this content for YouTube.

We weren't doing as well on the blog front. We weren't on Pinterest at all. And then Crystal kind of came

5:00in and it was like, you know, SEO was one of those things that can be slower to see.

But within like three to six months we saw a massive increase in traffic, which led to purchases, which led to audience growth.

I mean, it was, it was, it was just incredible. So I'm really thankful for you as well, crystal. So you are, you are the not guru.

You're my hero from an SEO perspective.

5:19Crystalit's fun to apply the concepts as somebody else's business.

I'm e-commerce, you're education uh,

5:24Jamie TrullYeah.

5:25Crystaland financial literacy.

5:26Jamie TrullYeah.

5:26CrystalAnd so it was interesting to see how SEO became another engine for you. And

5:32Jamie TrullYes.

5:33Crystalone of the things I remember that you guys said was that not only did it drive more traffic, but I think it also lowered your ad costs for retargeting.

So cool to hear how those levers can, you know, be shifted and, and impacted in different ways.

5:49The Power of SEO in Business

5:49Jamie TrullThat was the absolute biggest thing that I wasn't even expecting.

I think like when we hired you, I was like, okay, we just need, you know, to show up in Google search. Right?

And you don't realize, you

6:00know, most of the time from Google search people aren't necessarily going to purchase. Sometimes they do, from blogs.

But the point was.

If they go to my blog, I know they're interested in a particular topic and now I know exactly how to target them.

It all happens to us as consumers. We're used to it. We're like, oh wait, I just went on this website and all of a sudden I'm seeing ads on Facebook.

Well, that's because of the beauty of SEO, right? Like that's really, I don't make money from ads.

I'm not trying to, you know, put ads all over my website or anything like that.

I really do want to, you know, create, make sales. And so that was amazing.

It slashed our lead costs for all of our webinars and things like that, that we were running.

Because not only did we have a great audience.

6:41CrystalYeah.

6:42Jamie TrullSo we're able to create a lookalike off of that really specific audience that was interested in that topic.

So that was huge. In just being able to, you know really get the people who were most interested in what we had to say.

And not only that, so this is the other thing, I don't even know if I've told you this.

7:00We also saw an increase in just overall conversion.

So not only would we have lower ad costs. But they were the right people, right?

So we're getting them in and they're more likely to buy than they would have been had they just kind of stumbled across our ad when we were just, kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, right?

7:16CrystalYeah.

7:16Jamie Trullit really is worthwhile from that standpoint as well.

Even in a business that isn't like a physical product business. It's more of an information based business.

It's been a great addition to our strategy.

7:27CrystalYeah. And you were one of the first to the scene with like family management company education.

And you really like found these different keyword clusters and topics that you could dominate.

And I laugh because,

7:41Jamie TrullYou found those keywords that I could dominate, but yeah.

7:44Crystalthat you brought the content.

Yeah. Yeah.

7:48Jamie TrullYep.

7:48CrystalI typically follow behind Jamie and the content team.

And what's amazing is that now people are talking about omnichannel marketing and

7:57Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

7:58Crystalit's so important to be here and there.

And you could

8:00be found everywhere in search. Well, Jamie was already doing that.

The content team was already doing that. They were on YouTube. They're on all the socials, all of this stuff.

So doing all the really hard work of positioning the brand. And then SEO just came behind and solidified that.

So when people saw the brand on different channels, they could easily search for either Jamie Trull or they could search for Balance CFO.

Or they could search for a combination of those things with family management company.

And I see some of the bigger names in SEO come through on my emails. And they're like, oh, you should do this on YouTube. Or it's time to optimize social media.

And I'm just like, we've been doing that, you know?

8:40Jamie TrullWe got that part. And that is the thing. But work smarter, not harder. And I feel like that's like. Honestly the tagline of SEO.

It's like, you're doing the work anyway. And, and I think that that's true in social media.

Like there's so much work to put out the content and then if you're not optimizing it, you become just like, essentially a machine.

And you're gonna wear out. And you really have to

9:00optimize. Like, I can now take a vacation and know that it's completely fine. I don't have to be there every day.

Right?

It really is helpful to have kind of a more steady stream going on. So that was really a gift that SEO can give.

Yeah, Sure, I make sure I'd have my, my YouTube videos every single week.

But everything else, you know? Can run in the background. And it compounds.

And that's the other nice thing about SEO is that it is this great compounding way to be seen.

That just, continues to help your business.

So I've been really grateful for that, for sure.

9:32Crystalwell, mutual admiration society. But thank you!

9:35Jamie TrullWell, that's different talents, right?

Different people have different talents and they want what you have to offer.

9:40CrystalYeah. and I appreciate it because you saw something in me that I didn't really fully see in myself.

I love SEO. But I am also very excited about just like overall business optimization.

And that's one thing I really enjoy about what you teach because you're not just teaching the financial part of it.

It's like, yes, you're a certified public accountant.

You

10:00have that experience working for like Fortune five hundreds and all that type of stuff.

But you're also a business owner.

And you are one of the few people on the internet that can teach from the perspective of: this is the right thing to do.

And this is how to do it from this perspective we all share as business owners.

10:17Jamie TrullYeah.

10:18CrystalIt's been so great! And the fact that your book is coming out in a few weeks.

It's like right on time. Because I need a refresher myself in some of the practices.

I've got my book on pre-order.

But I'm excited to jump into it because I feel like I'm an even a better position now, obviously than when we met six years ago. there's also some things I need to go back and shore up. So.

10:39Jamie TrullAnd I think that's true always, right? It's cyclical. And so I think that that's one of the differences.

When we think about information, we think about like, oh, we need to learn this thing, right?

But it's really about creating those cyclical processes where we're always going back and you're gonna look at it.

I think about this book, for example, right? And I wrote it for people at various

11:00stages of business.

But typically, in that under a million dollars of revenue.

And my goal is really that , you're gonna read it the first time and take certain things from it that are most important at that time.

Right? There's a ton of strategies in this book.

You're not gonna want to put all of them into place at the same time. I actually don't advise that you do that in the book, right? Because it's a little too much.

But then, I want it to be like a reference manual. Where when you're like feeling stuck with something or you're like, oh man, I need to kind of get my juices flowing again.

That it's something you can pick up and say like, okay, how, what do I see now in this? Right? And the same was true for my programs.

People would go back through them and see different things at different times.

Because that's what we're meant to kind of pick up, the things that are gonna be most relevant.

And help us through potentially a block that we're having at that time.

You know? So for you, when you came through financial fitness formula, it was like the pricing and the profit margins was like, oh my gosh, I needed this right now. This is the most important thing. You know, we covered other topics.

But that for you, was like the key. And I, I really, that's kind of how I see this book as being.

Not just like a read it one time and then you know you've got it. No, it's something that you can reference and like, I want to see people with their sticky notes on the different parts and like re-looking at it.

It's much more interesting than like a typical reference type of book would be, I think.

I try to come at numbers from a little bit of a more jargon free zone. Where it's easy to understand.

But I really am excited to kind of finally get this out into the world for people to read and hopefully reread.

12:27CrystalYeah. So what's it been like? Writing a book and putting it out into the universe?

12:31Writing and Publishing a Book

12:31Jamie TrullIt's so different than everything else that I do.

And I say that largely because it's so much slower. So I'm sure a lot of people that are, you know, listening to this are business owners. And so, you're probably like I am. Where it's like, I have an idea. And then I'm like, okay, I wanna put this idea into motion.

Right? So you'd start taking the steps. If you have a team, you start outsourcing things. Or you make a plan and you do the thing.

And typically, from ideation to launch, like I can do that in 30 days or

13:00less. Most of the time. That's what I'm used to doing, right? I can create an educational program, I can like I can do these amazing things.

Book publishing, especially traditional book publishing. Is so slow and painstaking. And for me, that has been the hardest thing. Is because I'm investing my time. But the payoff on that is so far in advance, right?

Like SEO is is, it's a little bit like that. 'cause you kind of gotta wait. You kinda gotta, there's a waiting game with it.

You're like, I'm putting in the work now. But I'm not gonna see that return yet. So I just have to hope and trust. That the return's gonna be there at the end of the day.

So this has been a three year process, almost. I started the book proposal almost three years ago.

By the time it comes out, it will have been about three years from when I said, yes, I'm going to, you know, write this book proposal.

You just go through book proposals, then agents, then publishers.

Then writing the actual book. Then editing and editing more.

And copy editing. And like all, all the things, right?

Like cover art and

14:00blurbs from the author. It's just, it's never ending. It's literally a never ending process. And I'm just like, oh my God, can we be done?

Like, I just wanna put it out in the world.

14:08CrystalI can't wait to do this again!

14:10Jamie Trullyeah, I finished writing this book last, uh, it was last June.

So it's been done, in terms of like the writing part, for over a year.

So that's the other thing is it's like I just want it out there. I'm ready for it to be in people's hands.

It's time, it's time.

14:26CrystalYeah.

14:26Book Content and Structure

14:26So how did you choose what to put in the book?

14:29Jamie TrullYeah, I think that that was a process. 'cause that's the other thing.

You kind of start with about a million different ideas.

And a lot of people, like when they write books, they do struggle with having enough to fill. That was not my problem.

I had way more than I needed. And so I had to really think about, just like an educational program, right?

Like what do people really need and how do I guide them through and how do I divide this up into a way that makes sense?

So I think once I kind of figured out, what is the end goal of this? What do I want people to walk away with?

And my answer

15:00to that was, well, depending on where they're coming in, they're gonna come in with different background in finances.

So I want to appeal to the people who literally don't know what a profit and loss is.

But also appeal to people that are kind of at that stage where they're really trying to scale up, right?

So I had to kind of start with like, let's base level everything.

15:21Financial Basics for Business

15:21So the first part of the book is all just like, let's base level. What's a profit and loss?

What's a balance sheet? And even if you feel like you know all of that stuff, I guarantee you're gonna learn things you didn't realize. Right?

So there's a lot of just information on, what is this? Taxes.

Let's re-cover the basics here. And sort of like that foundational part.

So that's kind of part one.

Which is really just to, to hopefully give everybody a little bit of a crash course.

But in words that again, make sense and they can understand. So great reference manual. Lots of tables. I've put lots of examples, like all the things.

15:56Organizing Business Finances

15:56Getting organized. So how do you get

16:00organized in your finances?

And what are the different duties you need to be doing?

I talk about different things like ultimately we are responsible for compliance in our business.

Which is like all the yucky tax stuff that we have to do. 'cause we don't wanna get in trouble, right?

Like that's tax and legal. That's all compliance. And then there's cashflow, which is like day-to-day, making sure we can pay our bills. Right? We need cash flow.

And then the strategy side, which is my favorite.

But we kind of have to have the others to get there. Strategy is really about, you know, the profit levers, pricing. Costs, investing back into our business.

What are we offering?

All the different things. So we talk about that within there, too.

16:35Profit Levers and Strategies

16:35And then that leads us into our third part of the book.

Which is really about the profit levers. So it goes into depth about what lever to pull and why. And we talk about what they are, how they can help you.

How even just small tweaks, you don't have to double your prices like Crystal did.

You can, but even like two to 3% tweaks can make a huge difference on your bottom line, right? So we talk about that. And then the fourth.

16:57Using Profits for Positive Change

16:57Section of the book is my favorite.

Which

17:00is where we go into, okay, now we have a more profitable business. What do we do with that? Right? Like, how do we use that to build like the future that we want for ourselves? And the future that we want for this world?

And so that's where I get to kind of be a little bit more inspirational.

And talk about my visions for positive change in the world that we can make as small business owners.

'Cause sometimes it feels like we're kind of on an island by ourselves.

I want us to be able to tap into that collective energy. And realize like the impact that we can have, businesses on the world.

This book isn't just for women business owners, but that's what I am.

And I have a lot of heart for, you know, women business owners, marginalized communities.

The more wealth in the hands of people that are going to do good with it. The better world we are going to have.

Especially women tend to put a strong arm up and they're like, I don't need that. I don't need that much money. Like it's like a badge of honor to not be motivated by money. Right? But we don't have to be motivated by money to. Realize, hey, money may not buy happiness.

Exactly,

18:00but there's a lot of stuff it can buy. And it can buy food for hungry children, right? It can buy opportunities for people who don't have them.

It can buy time with our families and like, memories. There's just so many things that we can do with it.

18:12CrystalAnd you mentioned that this was the book that you felt like you needed.

18:15Jamie TrullOnce I kind of realized, okay, what do I wanna talk about?

It just took this form and we moved things around like crazy. And then when it finally got to this final form with the four parts, it felt really right.

It's the exact journey that people are gonna go on. And again, different sections of the book are gonna resonate differently at different times.

So like very early on in business section one is gonna be critical, right? Like we had a baseline.

But then depending on if you're bigger in business, if you've already kind of passed through some of those things.

It might be time to just really get you excited about your business again. And the positive change that it can make, you know?

18:48Crystaldo you know any moment early on where you felt like there was some sort of insight that you didn't have, that you were missing?

That was keeping you from getting where you're trying to

19:00go?

19:00Jamie Trullyou know what's funny? There are so few books specifically on business finances, like Real Strategies. There are a million different thought leader books, and I love those too, right? Like I'll read Buyback Your Time. All kinds of great, rocket fuel. Like there's some great thought leader books for business owners.

But sometimes they don't feel like they apply to, like the on the ground businesses, right? Like we're talking micro business owners. We're talking boutique owners. Pet sitters.

All just people who aren't necessarily trying to get venture capital funding and have, 10,000 people work for them and all of that, right?

Real, and I don't wanna call it lifestyle businesses because I think that kind of devalues it to a degree.

But the real on the ground people doing, putting in the work. The real heart of small business. And so while I love those books, it's like, where is the practical, like, how do I do this, though?

19:52CrystalYeah.

19:53Jamie TrullRight? Like, like really, like I get what you're saying and I'm, I'm excited about it.

But I'm like, but now I

20:00have to like figure out. Understand a profit and loss statement and what it means for me, right?

And now I figure out how to organize my financials and like what's deductible and not.

And again, at that stage in business, we don't always have access to, you know, all the, the people at our disposal to ask those questions to.

You may not have a whole financial team when you're younger in business.

Because it just, it's out. It's not attainable like from a financial perspective. Maybe somebody's filing your taxes at the end of the year.

But they're not giving you like that proactive strategy.

Which means, we are our own CFO. Like we are the chief financial officer of our business, which a lot of people aren't super comfortable with, right?

They're like, oh, no. Numbers. I don't know. But it is you. If you don't have one, it's you.

20:41CrystalYeah.

20:41Jamie TrullRight? And we can hone those skills. And it's not as hard as we think that it is.

20:45CrystalI think it's hard to confront the realities.

I really enjoyed what I was doing. It gave me a sense of pride that somebody wanted to buy something that I created. So, I had that martyr mentality.

Maybe because I was a teacher

21:00previously.

21:01Jamie TrullOh yeah.

21:01Crystalokay if I'm not making any money or if I don't

21:03Jamie TrullThe teachers and the creatives, right? Like it's Yes. And you're both!

21:07CrystalI know. I got that double whammy over here.

21:10Jamie Trullyep. ​

21:15Crystaloh, it's okay. I'm, you know, I'm feeling fulfilled. But it was like, yeah, kind of breaking through that, that mindset of like, yes, it's okay to make money.

Even as I've edited some of the case studies and testimonials from people who've benefited from your programs, it seems like there's kind of common themes and common challenges.

And so I was just kind of wondering if like, off the top of your head, maybe a couple of the top mistakes maybe that we tend to make.

21:41Common Financial Mistakes

21:41Jamie TrullI think the biggest one is often just ignoring it, you know, finances in general, right? So it's kind of that closing our eyes and just hoping everything goes well.

And it's kind of like, like, just to take it back to the SEO, right?

Like I, I love. Crystal, you're

22:00so intentional, right? Like everything you do is intentional.

There are strategies behind this. There's a reason that we do this.

Before Crystal, we had accidental SEO sometimes. So like occasionally something would like hit and we're like, oh, what did we do? I don't know. But that worked.

And all of a sudden we're getting all this traffic, right?

Like there was no strategy behind it. We were just like let's try this.

And it's like that with numbers too, I feel like where sometimes we can like accidentally, all of a sudden we're like doing well and we're like, oh. Okay.

But if we don't have the strategy to back that up and make it more sustainable, right?

It feels like, like we're always like waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's like, okay, this, this is working now, but will it always work?

And when you have numbers to back you up and you have strategy to back you up, you can feel a lot more confident in the decisions that you make.

And even in taking risks, right? Or investing money into something.

Because you've done the math.

And you're making the best decision you can with actual data, right? Like we both love data, just different types of data.

22:55CrystalYeah, and I can't make cool pivot tables out of it.

But yeah, I do love some data.

22:59Jamie Trull:

23:00I am an Excel nerd. That is very true. That is my happy place that,

23:03there a, is there a bonus in how to make pivot tables in this book?

23:07Jamie TrullI mean, there could be.

23:08Crystalcould be, yeah.

23:09Understanding the Importance of Financial Management

23:09most entrepreneurs hit the ground running so

23:13Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

23:14Crystalhard. Just trying to generate. Leads, sales, whatever. I've never had an example of an entrepreneur

23:20Jamie TrullYeah.

23:21Crystalto follow.

That's actually doing those practical things. So I feel like this is also very helpful because this is how you manage the full picture.

23:31Jamie TrullYeah.

23:31Balancing Marketing and Finances

23:31Well, and there's two sides of the coin, right? You've got the marketing piece of things.

And that's also where SEO comes in. Our marketing is like, it's a volume play.

But maybe you're bringing people in.

Going back to your business where you're making letters and everything like that, right?

If you can have all the traffic in the world, but if your profit margins aren't sustainable.

If you're not making money off of each of those sales.

You're just burning out, right? You're not actually gonna be taking home more money at the end of the day.

24:00And so that's why I think you have to have both.

Like oftentimes people love the marketing stuff.

It's more exciting, like, I'll be honest, it's more exciting.

Because sales are just more exciting than managing the money that you have. They just are.

But. I'm a big fan of like, no, those two have to go hand in hand because you need to have your finances together, right?

Like if you have a bucket and your bucket is leaking.

And you're just like, I'm gonna put more water in the bucket and that'll fix the problem. It's like, no.

It's still a leaky bucket. You're just working harder to turn up the pressure.

I think very strongly that it is kind of this balance that you have to have, both sides of the coin.

I think people will. Ignore the finance part. In the very beginning, it is more about marketing, though. I will say in the very beginning of a business, you gotta figure out what your offer is, how to sell it, will people buy it, all of those things, right?

I can't teach you how to manage money that you don't have.

But once you have some money coming in, that's when we have to get straight with our finances. And then we can turn that faucet back on, right?

Like once we know we're

25:00profitable on each and every one of those sales, then you can go like bananas on the marketing and the SEO and all the things.

And you're gonna see the biggest bang for your buck.

25:08Crystalwith SEO. A lot of people think blogging.

25:11Jamie TrullYep.

There is such a thing as image, SEO that can benefit you. You have the videos. Like your YouTube presence is so strong.

25:19CrystalThat's a huge driver.

25:20Jamie TrullYeah.

25:20CrystalNot to mention it's a Google product.

25:23Jamie TrullYep.

25:23Crystalthese Google products work together.

I hope people can take away like why you're so well positioned for LLMS. And like ChatGPT, Gemini, showing up in AI search. It's because your presence across the internet creates context for Google.

That computers can understand and make connections from one to the other.

25:43Jamie TrullYeah.

25:43Crystaloh, this Jamie is this Jamie and

25:46Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

25:47Crystalabout these topics and so does this, Jamie. And that builds the trust on their side.

You know, like however the metric is, is added up I guess.

25:56Jamie TrullYeah.

25:57Crystalbut that's why people in the future

26:00are going to have success with AI search.

26:03Jamie TrullMm-hmm.

26:03CrystalThey have built a digital footprint. That the internet recognizes. No matter where they're walking. Whether they're walking on Instagram. Or TikTok. Or YouTube or, you know, on a blog.

Or on words on a page.

26:15Jamie TrullAnd I've had people tell me that, I've had people tell me like, chat GPT gave me as a source. Or whatever it was.

I have been quoted to me on ChatGPT. And I'm like, that's me. Thanks.

26:26Crystalthat's right. I think I remember you saying that. Yeah. Oh my

26:29Jamie TrullYeah.

26:29Crystalthat story. So, but that,

26:32Jamie TrullI'm my own source.

26:32CrystalAnd people wanna know, they're like, what's the secret to showing up in AI search? It's creating a digital footprint that is trustworthy.

26:41Jamie TrullYep.

26:41CrystalThat's referable. And how

26:43Jamie TrullYes.

26:44Crystaltrustworthy and referable? You create content that helps people.

And you've done that on YouTube, on socials, on your website.

And so I just think it's really neat how that all works together.

26:55Jamie TrullAbsolutely.

26:56CrystalBack to the book.