PR + SEO = Peanut Butter and Jelly w/Visibility on Purpose

0:00Briget Sicskoan important thing to also understand with PR is it is really about borrowing someone else's audience.

0:06Or their platform, right? When you are featured on Forbes or entrepreneur, You are associated and Lydia, you said it so well. What was the saying you said the other

0:15Lydia Bagarozzaday? Oh, that you get like basically a third party endorsement. So a third party endorsement from like Forbes, that's a big deal

0:22Crystal WaddellWelcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show. The podcast dedicated to empathy driven, brand building SEO.

0:29I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence.

0:36Thank you so much for being here.

0:38Let's jump into another great episode.

0:40welcome back everybody. I am so excited to be here with two guests today. Oh my goodness.

0:45It's double the fun. Actually triple since I'm still here, but whatever.

0:49But I'm here with Lydia Bagarozza and Bridget Sicsko, who are co founders and media experts over at Visibility on Purpose.

1:00And they sent me the most fun email. The best pitch that I've ever received to be on the podcast. So even though we're meeting today, face to face for the first time, I already feel like I know you guys.

1:11But welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show Podcast.

1:13Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yeah. That means a lot

1:18Lydia Bagarozzato us. It does.

1:19It really inflates our egos. We're like media experts. Oh, it's the best pitch you ever got.

1:23Crystal WaddellYeah. I want to make a comment out there to anybody who's listening.

1:26Today, you're probably going to get some advice on, pitching and talking to people or whatever. But just like in terms of what I respond to. I don't have a lot of time.

1:35And I don't like to think super hard. So it was just nice to be able to resonate immediately with something, like your sense of humor.

1:43I was like, Oh, I love it. You know what I mean? I'm in, what are we doing? I don't even know what we're talking about, but I love it.

1:48Just keep it simple, make it easy. And a lot of people send me stuff that's super, super long. And I'm just like, dude, I don't know. I don't have time to read this right now.

1:57So I'm glad that you guys are here. And I'm excited. I'm excited to learn from you today.

2:01But first tell us like how you became partners and tell us all about your company.

2:06Briget SicskoLydia has the cool story for how we became partners. She's got to tell the backstory.

2:10Okay.

2:11Lydia BagarozzaSo it all started before 2020.

2:14Where Bridget and I both were in a Facebook group together where all love stories are made in the 21st century.

2:19And we both had joined it for like manifestation stuff.

2:23But really it was just Like, typing in your dreams. We're both into spirituality on the side for our interests. And I became friends with Bridget on Facebook and I kept seeing her go live like every single day.

2:36And she's been an entrepreneur way longer than me.

2:39She's been an entrepreneur. I don't even know.

2:40Briget SicskoEarly

2:41Lydia Bagarozza2016. Yeah. 2016. Yeah. So she was going live every single day.

2:46And talking about how entrepreneurs needed to like really be visible. And be online, not just on their social media pages, but in press and PR.

2:56And so she was on the back end really learning how to do this herself. And I've been a publicist for years.

3:02And so after a while I was like, you know what, I'm going to reach out to her. So I sent her a message, I didn't even own my own business yet, and I was like, Hi I see that you're posting all about this like getting entrepreneurs visible, and I'm thinking that maybe I can add some value to your group and come in.

3:16And she was like, No, thank you. And she doesn't remember this, but if we went back in the archives, I'm sure we could find it.

3:20And I was just like, Oh, okay. But as somebody who's didn't know, didn't have a business yet, if I was in her shoes, I would have done the same thing.

3:27So years later I ended up starting my PR company.

3:31So I was doing like agency work. I had some clients and I was pitching them. And she had popped up again doing a PR for her publishing's house.

3:40So she was helping entrepreneurs who wanted to self publish books on Amazon. So we ended up messaging each other.

3:47We started a workshop that we originally called what was it?

3:50Briget SicskoPitch like a pro and rock the show. This was in 2021. And it was our first time making money together too, which was like a big test.

3:58Lydia BagarozzaYes. So we ended up doing that workshop together to help entrepreneurs pitch themselves to podcast. So funny enough, we pitched ourselves to be here. And after we did that workshop, we were like this is super fun.

4:10We should do more of this. So we released a program called visibility on purpose, which is now our entire company name and mission.

4:18And now we've, Oh, Gone into business with each other for, we've been in business with each other for two years now.

4:24And we have a visibility mastermind, which is our like absolute bread and butter favorite thing that we do where we have our like course, teach entrepreneurs how to pitch themselves to editorial, to podcast, to TV.

4:37As well as just help them with visibility all around.

4:41Sometimes we have questions like SEO. So we're really excited to talk to you today as well.

4:45Crystal WaddellNice. I love it. Like flipping the script a little bit.

4:48Yeah, totally bring on the questions. I love the questions. So is there anything that you would want to add Bridget to your founder story?

4:56Briget SicskoYeah, I think what's important for everyone listening is I was the one, just doing all this for myself.

5:02I was learning about press, learning about podcasts, learning about tv. Figuring out the ways that I could get my business visible. Which started as a yoga company, by the way. I still teach yoga.

5:12I've been teaching for the last eight years. That turned into publishing. I know it doesn't seem like a linear trajectory. But of course, life is never linear and my thing was just how can I get myself visible?

5:22How can I just? Figure this out. So I was the one figuring it out. And what was cool is that when Lydia and I teamed up, she had been doing this for a decade, working with Grammy award winning artists, representing them, getting big brands. Yes, we can ask her more questions about this because Lydia has a really cool backstory.

5:38And getting big brands into Ulta, Walmart, Target. So we really feel like we get our people. Cause I was the one just trying to figure it out. The small business owner, the entrepreneur who just wants to be seen. And she has the background, the credentials of really helping big brands do this thing, be known, be seen all that.

5:58Okay. So before

5:59Crystal Waddellwe move on into PR and SEO, I got to ask a self serving question. How did you get brands into stores? What's the short version of that?

6:07Lydia BagarozzaOh, it's not really into stores. It's more, they had just entered the stores. Wanting to keep the health of their, stock there, things like that, push those sales.

6:17So a lot of brands there, there's two things that they want. Especially for product brands. It's a lot of the times they want to scale. And so scaling is getting on major retailers. So wanting to get into target wanting to get into Amazon. One of my brands got into Neiman Marcus when I was working with her.

6:34So PR is not necessarily the pitching to get into these retailers. It's more of the support of being able to go to these major retailers. Or we always joke around that like PR is support for goals. Like it's not about the actual press. It's about what comes after. So a lot of these brands, their goals are to get into Ulta for beauty, maybe. Or skincare or get into Sephora.

6:57So either they had just gotten in there and they wanted to make sure that they could stay. So expanding their brand awareness. So people are aware, like not only is, I don't know, Charlotte Tilbury. I feel like that's like the new brand that's really popular right now in these stores. I know it's so good.

7:12But also their brand is available there as well. And I don't know if you're like a big Ulta person or Sephora person.

7:18But they especially in Ulta, they Push those smaller brands that just came into the store in the same section. So it's like the reject section.

7:26And it's like, how do we get the big end caps and things?

7:28So yeah, the PR is really about to roundabout answer your question. How can we build that brand awareness, build that brand growth so that we can either meet our goals. Or we can support what is already happening for us.

7:44Crystal WaddellThat's really interesting. And yeah, I love Charlotte Tilbury. I've got her setting spray on right now, so yeah, I didn't even wear makeup before I turned 40 and now I wear makeup.

7:53And I'm like, Oh, this is so fun, cause I used to be a basketball player and a volleyball player and I was just like sweaty all the time.

7:59Now I actually get to dress up for podcast interviews.

8:02So let's talk about like how getting featured in media. Like intersects with SEO. Because we've had some people come on and talk about PR.

8:12It just seems so hard. It does just seem so hard. And as someone who does her own SEO and I teach entrepreneurs how to do their SEO.

8:22I'm like, okay. Is there a way that we could incorporate this workflow together, so that it doesn't necessarily add on another thing.

8:30But it's like complimentary as we're working on visibility okay, add this as a checklist item.

8:36Briget SicskoAnd like the way that we like to pose this, because we get that too. That it can feel overwhelming. It could feel like another task.

8:42We like to say set aside one to two hours a week. Especially if you're doing this on your own, where you are just taking some time. To put the brand out there. And we can go through what that actually means.

8:52But simple, quick, effective, that is our bread and butter anyway.

8:55But when we think about SEO and we think about PR, some similar goals, right? Brand awareness. Getting found more easily . Getting on other platforms.

9:04Building that brand awareness strategy. And one of the ways that we can do that is through media features. Because when you think about big sites like Forbes, time magazine Business insider entrepreneur, those are like the, very businessy publications.

9:19They are highly trafficked. There are millions and millions of unique monthly visitors going to those sites. So when you as a business owner are quoted, are mentioned, are linked in any of those articles, it then supports your own website.

9:34So we basically found this on our own. Like I'm not an SEO expert.

9:38at all. But one day we were on hrefs and then we were using like semrush and just figuring out like what were some of the backlinks that we had gotten for our own companies. And we start to see the press ones that are coming in. And we're like okay there's something to this. Not even realizing that there's a whole strategy around companies that just get companies backlinks.

9:57So we are looking at it from more of the brand exposure, building your credibility platform, building a thought leadership platform. But at the end of the day, it also supports SEO efforts because you now are boosting your domain authority because you are linked to these highly trafficked websites.

10:15Crystal WaddellI just think it's cool.

10:16One thing I think is interesting is you mentioned brand goals earlier.

10:19And I just think it's interesting because I think that's a fun exercise in and of itself.

10:24It's what are your business goals? Because a lot of times I'll talk to people and I'll say, okay depending on your business goals, this is what we could do.

10:31Or, there's lots of different options, but what are your business goals? And sometimes I get a blank look.

10:36Like, the one goal of business is to make money. Or, like it falls under that blanket statement.

10:43So how does someone define business goals to then say, okay, now I want to do these things to support those business goals.

10:51Lydia BagarozzaYeah, this is a great question. I think that when it comes down to it, everybody has values. And a lot of them trickle into our brand.

10:59So we have brand values. Now, when we're looking at our values, how did those translate into what we want for business long term?

11:07I did speak to a company recently, they're a skincare brand. And her values are, I don't want to add any preservatives into my products.

11:15Therefore, I don't want to go to any major retailers because the shelf life needs to be extended.

11:21So I actually don't want to be in Ulta. I don't want to be on Amazon. And that was really interesting to me because her now, her maybe press or the way that she markets is going to be very different.

11:33So right now, PR for products, and this is for your listeners too. So they just know this. Is they're going into an affiliate model.

11:42So it's almost like pertinent and crucial for them to be on Amazon or a major retailer in order to get press. And this is because magazines don't make money anymore. They used to be print and now they're all online. So this is a way that they get to make money online.

11:58For experts. It's a different story where you don't really need to worry about that or sources, but for products, they do need to be on a major retailer.

12:06So for this particular brand, it actually made a little bit more sense for her to go the ad route and to go the social media route. Now, I would say 90 percent of the brands that I speak to, they're interested in going on Amazon.

12:18Or going into major retailers. And scaling in that way. They're also not all like skincare brands.

12:22I have to worry about preservatives and things like that.

12:25It may be that they're, a lifestyle product, maybe like a weighted blanket or something. So there's lots of goals where it's let's talk about what your values are. What you see for yourself longterm. And then shift gears and build a strategy that is curated, that is meant for you. In the PR route.

12:42There's an interior designer that's in our visibility mastermind. She's so amazing.

12:46But her whole niche is actually building a space that feels safe for you. It's more about mental health, which is so such a cool spin. And so she eventually wants to speak on stages.

12:57She's already done some speaking. And so for her, she wants to get on these big publications as more of support for Hey, I'm a big deal.

13:06I've been featured on X, Y, and Z. I have great SEO, I'm searchable. And I also should be the keynote at this, big conference about mental health.

13:17I feel

13:17Briget Sicskolike this is where all businesses need to start off also is just figuring out what are our goals? Because each company is so different. Like Lydia has shared, I'm sure Crystal, like you work with a bunch of different types of companies that have different goals and then based on their goals, you then develop a plan, right?

13:33So for us, just like a behind the scenes, look at visibility on purpose. Podcasts are a huge part of our PR strategy.

13:39Because we know that we can get in front of the right audiences We also it fits our personality. Like we like this style of communication. So it's fun. It just energizes us It's good for us.

13:50We also focus on getting inside of business magazines just for really the logos and the credibility.

13:56We can link those to our websites. We also get in front of groups and communities. So we'll do a lot of workshops where we are in front of new audiences. And an important thing to also understand with PR is it is really about borrowing someone else's audience.

14:11Or their platform, right? When you are featured on Forbes or entrepreneur, You are associated. And Lydia, you said it so well. What was the saying you said the other

14:20Lydia Bagarozzaday? Oh, that you get like basically a third party endorsement. So a third party endorsement from like Forbes, that's a big deal.

14:27So we could start this podcast by saying Hey, Crystal, we're like Forbes feature. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, when you're able to say those things, like that's shiny. Like both Bridget and I have been featured on entrepreneur magazine quite a few times recently. So that is cool. And.

14:42Bridget just got featured or she's getting featured on yoga journal, right? You had just spoken to a writer there.

14:47Briget SicskoIn the works. So yeah, in the works, it's so exciting. Yeah.

14:50Crystal WaddellYeah, that is super awesome. Okay.

14:53One thing I want to take out like a quick look at is you mentioned the affiliate model.

14:58And I think for people who are starting businesses and, they're thinking about, increasing their visibility and availability online.

15:07They may not be, familiar with the affiliate model. And I remember when I learned about affiliate marketing and just like the level of affiliate marketing.

15:16I never looked at the internet the same again.

15:19I try to tell everybody. People are selling you something all the time. And if it's free, we're It's free because you are the product. Like you are the product.

15:28So don't worry so much about what is free and what is paid.

15:32Think about what information or data you're giving people access to.

15:36Having said that, what is an affiliate model? And how does that work? And who has access to become an affiliate?

15:44Lydia BagarozzaYeah. I love that you said this because I feel like a lot of this information is gate kept or people don't know it exists until they're digging. And then they find out and they're like, it's like a facade has been lifted. And they're like I've been sold to because of that, whatever.

15:56It's around the holiday season right now. So there's going to be a ton of gift guides and you're not going to realize that they're called gift guides, but they are.

16:02So you can type in like gifts for great aunts. There's a gift guide for everyone. Gifts for four year olds.

16:08And you will most likely get an article that will have that exact headline because people post and they're looking for those things. It's searchable. So SEO. And when you look at those gift guides, it's going to be a list of products that makes sense for that category or something.

16:22I'm going to guess that about 80 percent of those are going to be on Amazon. Because Amazon pays per purchase on the backend.

16:30And so the product or the company is not responsible for that payment, actually Amazon is. So Amazon is truly taking over the world. That's a real thing.

16:37And, or it's going to be on like Uncommon Goods. Or Target. Or something like that.

16:43Now, a brand can also be competitive by going through platforms like share a sale. Or skim links that are comparable for these types of paybacks.

16:54And I think right now most brands are doing 15 percent per purchase on the link.

16:59So what you can do is if you pitch to, let's say a lower magazine and they're only, I don't know, I have to check a lower, it's been a minute since I've pitched products to them.

17:09But say they're clearly only posting about Amazon products and it's because there's tracking and they're, getting paid by Amazon.

17:17You can also pitch them and say, Hey. I just want to let you know that I'm on share a sale or I'm on skim links. And so their team will use that tracking link and the brand will pay them directly.

17:29And so there's different ways where you can look at this. You can, get your brand on Amazon if it's not there yet. Or you can go these different routes.

17:37If it's more cost effective for you, sometimes it is and you can choose to do share a sale or skim links and manage those affiliates on the back end. But a lot of products are using affiliates now. Also with a rise of Tik TOK and Instagram.

17:52This is how people get paid as well. So it's not all of the publications that are using affiliate links.

17:59There's still some publications out there that are very highly trafficked. And very awesome. That are posting boutique brands or or product owned websites.

18:09But like company owned websites, but you do want to be very conscious of that. What I'll do sometimes if I'm not sure and I see brands that are not on Amazon, it's linked to their actual store. Is I'll stare at like the search bar on my browser and I'll click on it and see if I see a little tracking link pop up and then it goes right to the site.

18:26And that's how you know.

18:27Crystal WaddellOkay. So what's a tracking link? When you look in the search bar and you see a tracking link, what type of things are in there that tell you that's a tracking link?

18:34Lydia BagarozzaYeah.

18:34So you can see it's a tracking link. If it say we click on it and it like, goes to a bunch of different like characters. Sometimes it'll say skim links or something.

18:43But other times it'll look like a bunch of characters and then I'll reconfigure to the website.

18:48For example, say, me and Bridget are selling t shirts. And it's visibility on purpose. And we have an affiliate link on the back end that people don't know about and we're getting posted on, cosmopolitan.

18:58I know that Cosmo very much uses affiliate links only. So we're posted on Cosmo. We use our tracking link. They know.

19:05People don't know because they're just scrolling and they see it's linked to Visibility on Purpose. They may click on the purchase button and at the top it would, have a bunch of letters and then it would reconfigure to www.

19:16visibilityonpurpose. com. So that's what it would look like.

19:19Crystal WaddellAnd I have a question because someone, I don't, I'm not going to say who, got kicked out of the Amazon affiliate program. That someone is me. And it was really an accident. It was a genuine accident because I was just positioning myself perfectly for, Amazon sales from my blog. For people who wanted things related to senior night gifts and the wooden letters that I sell.

19:42And then I signed my husband up for the NFL package. But I had to use like a new prime account. So I was like in his account. Then I bought something on his account.

19:53Somehow they attributed a sale on Amazon from myself to myself.

19:58And then I got kicked out. And that was the first and only. Sale that I'd ever gotten, and I was done like that. And now I'm getting like this massive traffic from all of the SEO stuff that I had done on my site to set myself up. And I had to take all of those links out for Amazon.

20:16And I was so mad. And I'm like, is there a way to get back in? I can't talk to human. I can't. Talk to anybody. And I've tried to sign up again, multiple times through tick tock shop or whatever.

20:26Can't get back in. So I'm like, what do I do?

20:29Lydia BagarozzaThat I don't have the answer for you. I wish I did.

20:33Briget SicskoI do know that Amazon is very picky on that just from the publishing side.

20:37We used to use Amazon KDP, Kindle direct publishing as our publishing, our print on demand publishing platform. And if you ever wrote a review for yourself.

20:47Or even the authors, if they wrote reviews for themselves, there was a lot of tracking going on where Amazon then knew it was from that like original computer, that original IP address.

20:57So I think they're just like really taking precautions to make sure that doesn't happen. I don't know in your case. But that's annoying.

21:05Crystal WaddellIt's terrible because I'd had an affiliate account for years with zero action, and I was like, I'm just, now I'm going to get serious about it.

21:12And I remember when I saw the affiliate commission come through, I was like, Oh my gosh, it's working. I was attributing it to my SEO. I was like, Oh my gosh, look at me. Like I am a rock star.

21:21And then I get an email not too long after that's you're kicked out. And I'm like, wait, what happened?

21:25And so I because all of that happened right about the same amount of time. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. That's, I got an affiliate sale for myself, but whatever. The good news is because like I said, I started out in handmade and I still do make all of the products.

21:39We, we are manufacturer. We make giant photo props, giant. letters, giant numbers. And then I make collages like this one. I made this one for my son. So cute. So usually I make them for athletes, but of course I'm going to make it for my family.

21:53But anyway, my point is back in the day when I decided that I needed to expand beyond Etsy. Etsy would not just let anybody in their affiliate program through awin.

22:04That's Etsy's affiliate program.

22:06But now, because so many sellers have said, Hey, I need my own stuff because, I want to keep more of the commissions. I want to keep more of like the actual sale money.

22:15Etsy's now opened up their affiliate program to sellers, which is awesome. Yeah. So we talk about that in my small group, the SEO squad, because it's okay, Amazon's obviously a great one.

22:27Now I've shifted to awin because of my situation with Amazon affiliates.

22:32Lydia BagarozzaGosh, I have so many questions because I don't actually know what's happening with Etsy. But I've been seeing them in gift guides. And I'm like, Etsy is doing something. They are doing something because they are competitive here.

22:42There's some tracking links. So it's super interesting to know that's also an option.

22:47Because it, sometimes it feels like Amazon is the only route to take. And that's why I mentioned skim links and share a sale because there are other options, especially for when you're, Brands that maybe don't have this massive budget yet.

22:58Like I've heard that Amazon can be really pricey for some products where like they need to send it to a warehouse and they have to store it. And there's like all these other things that happen if it's not getting made through companies that are, what Bridget was talking about, like made to print or things like that.

23:13And it's like an internal system.

23:15Crystal WaddellI think the biggest takeaway that I have tried to share with my fellow entrepreneurs is number one, like you said, that the internet is built on affiliates and affiliate links.

23:26And so again, once you see that you can't unsee it.

23:29And what I was hearing you say is okay, say I find a publication that I want, that I'm like, Oh, I like to read that. Or I think my products would be good there. A good thing to do is to go to the website and, like you said, look and see what type of articles they have. And how they're presenting it, and if it is an affiliate link.

23:45And now you've explained how to tell if it's an affiliate link.

23:48Thank you, because I wanted to be able to give people the information to be able to help themselves understand, like, where they can insert themselves into the conversation.

23:57Briget SicskoAnd there's always room in that conversation. That's what we love to remind brands of.

24:02I think sometimes they think, and by the way, for your audience and for you, everything we're talking about here is organic. We do not do pay to play. You will see that there are going to be paid agencies and maybe that's the route that works for you, but we're talking about organic here.

24:16One of the big things that we hear from founders of brands, small, even, medium sized. They're like, What would I even say?

24:22Like, how do I even support this conversation? So if you have a product that is well suited around the holidays. Or new years. Like introduce that, introduce yourself and the brand as a source for writers. That's there's an ecosystem of how this works. Writers receive hundreds of pitches per day, but why is that helpful for them?

24:44They need sources. For their articles. They're tasked with writing a certain amount of articles based on their publication or if they're a freelance writer or a staff writer.

24:54Like they need your input just as much as you need them. So just like remind, it's a little mindset shift that we like to share with our students and our community. Because you are valuable.

25:06Like you have something really important to say.

25:07Lydia BagarozzaYeah.

25:08And we always say we like love the freelancers because they're also pitching too. So just understand, I think like just understanding the ecosystem.

25:16What we were talking about, like understanding that affiliates are a thing. Also understanding that there's different ways you can get into these publications.

25:23Like we're scrappy. We're like do you have any expertise? Can you talk on this conversation? That makes sense for your brand to get that logo. To get that backlink, to get on that site.

25:31And freelancers, we love to, to, to speak to because typically freelancers are writing for multiple publications that are, that kind of makes sense for you.

25:39So if they're a wellness writer, they like to talk about wellness and they're pitching to let's say Allure, Well and Good. And Vogue.

25:46And that's where they write for. You then get to send them a potential story angle. That makes sense for you. That is like already something you're an expert in. And then they get excited and they will pitch your exact.

25:59There have been many times where I have seen my exact headline from my subject line of my pitch. As a headline in a magazine.

26:07Cause they're like, Oh, that was good. I'll use that. And then they get to pitch it to one of the publications. That's awesome. She's Oh, I can't do a lure this time as Vogue.

26:14Okay. I'm like yes, ma'am. So yeah, there's just so many opportunities. Yeah.

26:19I guess Vogue is fine.

26:20Crystal WaddellI've got a fun story about that.

26:21One of the girls that I've interviewed on the podcast, it turns out that she writes for HubSpot.

26:26She was mentioning something about being on a deadline for CRMs or whatever.

26:31And I was just joking with her because I was like, Hey, I wish I could help you because do I get a link? Like I was just teasing her.

26:37And then I realized, oh my gosh, I'm I use a CRM, what am I talking about? And it does have ai. Oh, let me show you.

26:43And so I was able to send her some screenshots and get some, I don't know if HubSpot will leave them in or not, but I was able to link to my podcast, my website, all that stuff.

26:51And I was like, okay, let's go. And that was just, being available or whatever. Yeah. But yeah it's interesting the opportunities that are out there, and that. Just being helpful, like I didn't realize that, people are on deadlines and they need that information right there.

27:07So if you can just, find your way into a relationship with those people, it's so mutually beneficial.

27:13Briget SicskoSo mutually beneficial. And, Lydia has reminded me of this so many times. She's like writers don't always know everything about every CRM on the market. You might think they do.

27:21Cause they've made that request of yeah, I have this deadline to write on the top AI generated CRMs in the marketplace. They need your thoughts on it. And that's what creates the best article for them and their publication. And that publication is thinking about numbers. Or thinking about viewers. Or thinking about their audience.

27:40So you're just such a, crucial role in the entire synergistic ecosystem relationship of how the media works because you are valuable.

27:48Lydia BagarozzaYeah, and this is like a hot tip and I love that you were just mentioning this Crystal like that was an absolute slay.

27:55But you are, you created a relationship.

27:57Media is about relationships. And therefore you were able to have a natural conversation of how you could help this person. But you were also talking about something that's very trendy and new.

28:06And so what I think is really great is there's so many trends and seasons out there, right? There's so many things that's always going on.

28:14So how can we add to the conversation with our own unique spin and take? So for example, like this is just a silly example, but I see this writer. That is a news writer on Bustle all the time. I've been pitching her for years. She never answer me once. But that's okay. Cause sometimes that happens.

28:30And she writes about spirituality and she writes about trends. And the other day I noticed that she was posting a lot about like different TikTok trends that are happening. And one of my clients is a like a spiritual mentor. She talks a lot about spirituality and these types of things.

28:45And I don't know if you saw on TikTok, the invisible string theory.

28:47Did you see that by any chance? You mentioned you're a TikTok person. So I'm like, Oh okay. So basically the invisible string theory is that you end up being near the people that you're supposed to be meant to meet.

28:59But you don't actually meet until a certain point in your life. So Bridget and I, for example, we both went to Rutgers.

29:05We both have mutual friends, which is really weird. And we didn't meet until officially in person until 2021. So we had been crossing paths with each other for many years. And so I ended up reaching out to this writer and I was like, Hey. I have a spiritual mentor that talks a lot about like the laws of the universe.

29:23And I noticed that you're writing a lot about recent trends on Tik TOKs. Would you be interested in talking about this specific angle and having her speak to you? Be a source for this type of article.

29:33And she responded back to me right away and was like, Oh my gosh, I've been seeing this everywhere on my for you page.

29:37The stories are wild. Does she have any particular story? I'll just post about it. So I asked her, she was like, actually so funny. Me and my husband, and We ended up like passing, we were in like pictures together and things. And it was really weird how we met. And that story alone, got her immediate feature.

29:55It was like that there was no, drag time or back and forth. So sometimes it's about working smarter, not harder. And just being mindful of I feel like a lot of the times people think that PR or pitching is hard and daunting.

30:06And it's you need to, it's a numbers game, you need to like, pitch like a bunch of things, and sometimes it is.

30:11But also, even Bridget reaching out to you, Crystal, and saying that PR is like, PR and SEO is like peanut butter and jelly. She took the time to do that.

30:20She messaged me and she was like, Hey, like I sent like a few pitches to some SEO podcasts and I changed the subject line. And that was a mindful pitch.

30:27So yeah, my little hot take on how to reach out to people.

30:31Crystal WaddellAnd I think it's such a great point too, that, Hey, look, what is trending on Tik TOK?

30:37Particularly.

30:37Maybe it used to be X and, sometimes maybe it could even be on LinkedIn or whatever, but like when you can find a place that intersects with your business, like I will be looking out for that now. \

30:47oh, what do I know about this? Because again, with the CRM, I was joking with her.

30:52I didn't even see my connection until I like thought about it. You know what I mean? I was like, how could I be an expert on this? Or how could I contribute?

31:00And it's wait a second, I'm a business owner that uses a CRM. I just don't think of myself as a business owner that uses a CRM. I'm over here doing a podcast.

31:08Yeah, definitely.

PR and SEOA Perfect Match

31:09Lydia BagarozzaI'm like, Ooh, we should probably talk about why it's like peanut butter and jelly. Yeah.

31:13Crystal WaddellYeah. So tell us, yeah. Tell us why PR and SEO are like peanut butter and jelly.

31:19Briget SicskoI would say that, we have a client, the interior decorator, she said that she's been working on her SEO for the last couple of months.

31:25Starting to get calls coming in and now her strategy is shifting toward, I want to get in publications and I want those logos.

31:32I want better homes and gardens. I want architectural digest. And the way that this all works together, it like brings us back to the back linking conversation, too.

31:41All of it compounds like PR and SEO together.

31:44They're not immediate strategies. I'm sure you talk about this all the time. You might not see the result tomorrow.

31:49It might take, on our end, a couple of pitches or, a couple of conversations. A couple of relationships being built to actually secure those features.

31:57But once you get that ball rolling, what happens both as a result of being found online.

32:03And getting press for your business. You're going to be able to convert clients quicker. You're going to be able to set up more sales calls, maybe even sell more products because you are found by the people who are looking for you.

32:14And you've built the credibility and trust through press already. So that when someone comes onto your website, whether it's like a product or your, some sort of thought leader in the space.

32:25And then you get to say featured in X, Y, and Z, it's subconscious for your potential buyers.

32:31So it just, they're like, Best friends. Like I almost, I like peanut butter and fluff also, but peanut butter and jelly works too.

32:37Crystal WaddellAnd I think it's really interesting because there's an acronym in SEO or at least from Google. Which is called EEAT. And so it's experience, expertise, authority, and trust.

32:48And then also, yeah, I know, right? You didn't know that. Oh, you didn't? Oh my gosh. I didn't trust. Yeah. So when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh, that's totally aligned with, the whole process.

33:00But the other side of it is that Google, says make helpful content. Make helpful content for your website.

33:06And a lot of people, I'm not going to go into it right now because I think that could be a masterclass. I could teach a masterclass on what helpful content actually looks like on a website page.

33:15But what's interesting is that helpful content is content that helps people make a decision.

33:21That they feel comfortable about. That they feel good about. That they feel like, Oh, I can feel proud of this, proud enough to even share with other people.

33:29And I think about that authority piece, and just those elements of, okay, if I'm aligned with this brand or that brand or this publication or that publication, it's building authority, it's building expertise.

33:41And it's that trust that, like you said, that third party association, it's just like check, check, check. You know what I mean? So I love that. It's to me, that's how I visualize it all coming together.

33:52Lydia BagarozzaYeah. And I, I think the real, Eye opening piece when I was like, Oh, okay. This actually matters. Is I've been a publicist for 10 years.

34:01Like what Bridget said, I have been doing this for a long time.

34:04But I've always sat in that seat of, okay, I'm the one to get you on the podcast, to get you on the magazine, to get you the TV segment. And I've done my job, like my hands are done.

34:14Like I've washed my hands of it, but I've never really liked.

34:16Dove into the analytics of how this is impactful for a website and online in the online space. And then Bridget went into the obsession of learning about SEO last year. She was telling me all about it. I was getting voice notes. She's so there's this site right where you can actually see your backlinks.

34:32And so I started looking at my clients cause I was like, huh, like now I'm curious. And I had a client. She was a breathwork practitioner. I had her for two years and we got her on oprah, we got her on Bustle.

34:46She was on Well and Good. She was on these huge podcasts for her niche. And I was like, let me just look and see.

34:53So I looked on Ahrefs and she had 600 backlinks. And this is a brand new company, right? But then I started noticing, and I do know that things syndicate.

35:03So basically if you get an article on women's health. Sometimes it doesn't just stay on women's health. Like it goes on Yahoo, it goes on AOL, it goes on MSN.

35:11Those are all search engines in themselves. And they're big sites. Also little blogs might pick it up and be like trying to borrow their content and put like the little women's health logo and backlink to that. So it's all like a web almost and it's all connected. So really when I was getting her one feature, I was getting her like four.

35:28Or five, right? Or six or 10.

35:31And so all of those were compounding over the years and she, it was funny. So I messaged her and I was like, Hey, like I'm just looking at SEO recently.

35:39And I noticed that we created 600 backlinks for you. And this is so cool for a newer business that started in 2020. And she was, and this was like last year I was looking this up.

35:49So it was a short period of time is only three years. And she messaged me and goes, This is so funny. You sent me this. I was just looking at my website traffic, 20, 000 views to my website last year. And there's no reason a small business owner who doesn't have a storefront, she's all virtual. Is getting 20, 000 views on her site.

36:07So this just goes to show like the proof is really in the pudding. And it is a longterm strategy, but it doesn't take that long. And it compounds over time. Like those live on the internet forever now.

36:17Crystal WaddellSomething that kind of made sense to me too is okay, once you optimize a page, there's, okay, you got to let it ride for a while.

36:25But then it's okay, then how do you promote it? How do you get more eyeballs on it? You know what I mean? It's just a natural next step.

36:31So you have to get your foundations in place with SEO. I really, truly believe that. But then you've got to tell people that you exist.

36:38And you've got to get traffic to your site and that syndication drop that you just had, that's a big nugget because I didn't realize that.

36:46It never connected for me that one link could lead to multiple links.

36:50Lydia BagarozzaOh yeah. Oh yeah. So if you were even helping your clients with backlinks, like they're really getting many backlinks. So it's really very cool. Once you start to realize that, and you can use tools like Ahrefs. And other tools that will help you see all of those links and connections. But and it's not just US publications too.

37:08Like sometimes my clients will get featured. Our clients will, one of them actually in our mastermind got featured on women's health and she had MSN Yahoo AOL. But then she also had aOL, UK. And I was like, Oh, okay.

37:22So there's, it's not just one, it's not just two, it's like many different links and these are all supportive.

37:29So I love what you said. I think really the tangible steps are like, they all should be. Kind of something that you're working on together. We never ever say, yep, a 360 approach, baby.

37:41We never say Oh, you should just do social or you should just do PR or just do SEO. If you're looking at a brand for the longterm and you really want to create an impact, it's this omnipresence of like Why don't you work on your SEO and like simultaneously work on your PR.

37:57And this is all going to compound.

37:59And we like to remind entrepreneurs . I think, because a lot of us are so used to that, like instant gratification.

38:05Crystal WaddellFrom social

38:05Lydia Bagarozzamedia. Oh my God. Like we have to remember like that. This is so freaking new.

38:12That's not normal.

38:13That doesn't happen. If I'm going to open a store on a street, I probably will have to buy the products. I would have to, pay rent for my storefront.

38:21Online we get to make sales right away. And typically a lot of people are making profits right away, which is amazing.

38:27But we have to remember that building a brand does take time. It's not you're putting in the SEO with Crystal and then tomorrow you get a bunch of phone calls like.

38:35Maybe two, three years, you get a bunch of phone calls because of all the amazing things that she's doing and your PR and your social media.

38:43And now you get to sit back and reap the benefits of people like coming to you instead of being the outward facing sales.

38:48But we've got to put work in a little bit,

38:49Crystal Waddelland that is the key right there is that it does take time. There's so many in your face, flashy success stories that are like, I made six figures yesterday. And I was taking a bath.

39:00And it's like, that's probably going to work for everybody. Some people are going to have that success, not all of us are going to be Michael Jordan, there's tons of players that have played in the NBA and we don't know all of their names. You know what I mean? So it's it does take time to build a brand.

39:14But one last question I wanted to ask you about how it does take time. And people are starting from a spot.

39:20I just recently had this conversation with someone in my small group. She's Who am I to have, this conversation, with somebody else?

39:27She's I think I should interview like the the manufacturer of my products.

39:32And I'm like, you are amazing. To hear her talk about her products and her, the people that she serves. It gives you goosebumps. She just loves bringing the party to her people, so it's like, what would you say to a small business owner who's Oh, I don't think that.

39:47I'm the right person to pitch. There's other people that maybe, they should talk to or whatever, anything along those lines, what kind of encouragement do you have for us?

Visibility on PurposePrograms and Services

39:56Briget SicskoThis is exactly why we started Visibility on Purpose. There are a bunch of huge companies out there, Coca Cola, Tesla, Elon Musk, Charlotte Tilbury now.

40:05And there are a bunch of small business owners that, are taking care of their families. Are walking their dogs,. Are not known by the world yet. So how do we get there? We take the small steps each and every day to share what we know to be true.

40:21And we always say you didn't start a business for no one to know about it.

40:24Like you started it usually for a purpose or a passion. Or like a heart centered story that brought you into that work in the first place.

40:31I see us as like stewards also of our businesses. We did start this for a reason. So let's take that next step to go to the audiences that need it most.

40:40Cause there's someone out there. And I had a mentor who said this years ago, like your work is the answer to someone's prayer.

40:46And if we like remember that and just sit in the truth of that, like there's just so much that we can do with it. And surround yourself with people who can remind you that message because it's really easy to forget.

40:55Lydia BagarozzaI have goosebumps right now. That was so good. I'm like, okay, Bridget.

40:58Crystal WaddellNo kidding. Okay. So if someone's listening right now, they totally resonate with you. How do they know if, they can work with you?

41:05And then if they are like a right fit for what you guys do, how they can do that?

41:09Lydia BagarozzaYeah. So a lot of our clients are business owners. We actually serve two different types of business owners. Or spaces. So our clients typically are at that space where maybe they're hitting a plateau.

41:23They have a small team or maybe it's just them at the moment. But they're like, I'm battling the algorithm every single day and I can't grow. And I just want to get in front of new people.

41:34Again, a lot of PR is about networking. So it's about meeting the writers. Meeting the podcast hosts. I'm so grateful we get to talk to you today because we can now be referral partners.

41:43We like, obviously we're vibing. I'm like, Oh, you're a new friend. This is so cool. And it's just, You are a high profile expert in a space that we want to communicate with.

41:53So really it's about networking as well. So I feel like I'm getting off track here. The, okay, this is where I'm going. I was like, Crystal, I just absolutely love you.

42:02Yeah, we love you. So we're, we support those entrepreneurs. That's our visibility mastermind pitch party where these entrepreneurs come into our group and we get to talk about lots of different conversations.

42:12So our main focus is, PR. We have our step by step course, flagship course that teaches you how to pitch yourself to the media and four simple steps is broken down.

42:21But we also decided that needed to be a year long mastermind because things come up. Conversations come up.

42:27Maybe you want to learn how to coordinate it to the best way to actually get the feature. So We're there for you throughout the process. We're actually doing a pitch challenge, which will be really fun where we're just going to silent cowork and pitch.

42:37And we did this, we actually did it like last week with one of our clients. And she was like, this was so awesome. I just pitched to four publications. Massive publications.

42:46Really catered. So I'm really excited to see what happens. And we're like, Oh, we should just do this as a challenge. So that's that space.

42:51And then we also support team members. We noticed that some virtual assistants wanted to go through our program and we actually had a VA go through one of our programs last year. She got her client on Forbes Business Insider USA Today Newsweek NASDAQ. Like it was honestly, we were like, how is this even real in three months?

43:11And so we're like, Oh, there's something to this. We need to actually teach virtual assistants and social media managers. So we are launching the PR assistant certification program. Again, we just ran it in the summer with 15 VAs. It was awesome. We certified them. We gave them like a cool cool certificate.

43:27Where they can find us is www. visibilityonpurpose. com. We're visibility on purpose everywhere. So Instagram, Facebook, we're on LinkedIn. Shoot us a message. We love chatting, obviously.

43:40Crystal WaddellYeah, you guys are awesome. I want to join that challenge!

43:43Briget SicskoWe do a bunch of these things in our community. So this is something that we'll be doing ongoing, whether it's pitching challenges or other mini challenges within our paid community, because we know that.

43:53People love a good challenge, stay committed, stay accountable, keep consistent. And all those things are really important when you are implementing your own PR strategy.

44:01Crystal WaddellYeah, for sure. And to see how it's done, directly from like the top and the best people to teach you, that's always so effective.

44:08So ladies, Lydia, Bridget, you guys are amazing. Thank you so much for your time today and for sharing with us. And yeah, I just, I really appreciate you coming on the Simple and Smart SEO Show Podcast. Thank you so much for having us.

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