Part 2: Insights on AI, Human Connection, and Brand Building

0:00Sara JensenAs you're looking at those metrics, don't just look at traffic. Look at how is the traffic converting on your site?

0:06Because that's telling you, are the people that are coming to my site actually my audience? Or are they just people who, are looking for whatever I was ranking for, but they're not my target customer.

0:19Crystal WaddellWelcome to the simple and smart SEO show podcast, where we talk all things, brand building, SEO, helping you connect with your audience, elevate your visibility and grow your business.

0:28I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success. By bringing you insights, stories, and conversations from the SEO community and beyond.

0:39Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out.

0:46So grab a coffee or your favorite tea, and let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business.

0:51Here's part two of our special guest hosted episode from Sarah Jensen and Shea Karssing from Brighter Messaging..

1:00Sara JensenI wanted to shift gears a little bit and just talk about some of our sort of philosophical beliefs about the impact of AI.

1:09Not only on our profession, but just On humans in general and I think a big question that I personally don't believe enough people are asking or thinking about is what are the long term effects of outsourcing our thinking?

1:26I'm sure most people have heard it said that good writers are good thinkers.

1:30I noticed an example in my personal life.

1:32I need to go somewhere, put the address in my phone. And let it navigate me to the place, which is fine, and it's great.

1:40And I'm glad I have that tool. And I'm glad I don't have to print out directions from MapQuest.

1:44But I don't learn how to get there, because somebody's just giving me turn by turn directions. I don't get any sense of The layout of the town that I'm in.

1:53Or even the direction that I'm going and that sort of thing.

1:56And so I personally try to challenge myself if I do that two or three times. I'm like, no, I'm going to try to get there by myself.

2:02Shea KarssingMe too. If I've been there before, then I challenge myself and I say, I'm not going to use the map. I'm going to work. And most of the time you do get, then if you don't, you've still got it as backup, but I actually do the same.

2:14Sara JensenYeah, so I want more people to just be thinking about, what are we outsourcing?

2:20And I saw this meme that I absolutely loved recently, and it said I don't want AI to do writing and create art so that I have more time to do dishes and laundry. I want AI to take over the dishes and laundry so I could spend more time writing and creating art.

2:36And I just love that.

2:37It's just strikes at the heart of what does it mean to be human? And yeah, definitely some food for thought. I also wanted to share a quote from an email newsletter that I subscribed to by Anne Handley. Her newsletter is awesome. I highly recommend it for any of you writers out there.

The First DraftA Thinking Draft

2:55Sara JensenBut she had in her September newsletter she said, The first draft is the thinking draft. That's where you need to be fully present. On board, just you and your glorious ideas. Protect the part of you that truly makes your content, your writing, your voice, your own. Why? Because otherwise, and over time, your skills will atrophy.

3:13You will doubt yourself more. You will build a dependency.

3:17I love that she said that, but it's also scary to think about. It is scary. The long term implications of that.

3:23Shea KarssingAnd something else that I thought of when you were talking about the meme that you saw with the dishes, for example, is we've come a long way.

3:29We, we've got a dishwasher now, a lot of us aren't washing dishes by hand and we've saved some time. Great. We've got a washing machine. We're not doing washing by hand saves us time. Great. What are we doing with that time that we're saving? I feel like as humans, we're not using it perhaps for those creative pursuits and the same applies to AI.

3:48Okay, cool. You're saving a bit of time. What are you doing? You're filling it maybe with. More work or more output or faster deadlines or, and things just ramp up and ramp up. And at what point are we actually going to say, Hey, we've got some robots to do the dishes for us or do a bit of this and that for us.

4:07So I'm going to go outside and lie on the grass and do absolutely nothing and think back great deep philosophical thoughts. At what point do we actually start doing that?

4:16Sara JensenI love that.

4:17So I asked chat GPT why I shouldn't use it to create marketing content. And it gave me seven reasons.

4:25with the number one reason being lack of human creativity and intuition.

4:29It suggested that a combination of human insight, creativity, and expertise might still be essential for the most effective marketing strategies.

4:38So there you go.

4:39Shea KarssingSo sometimes it is right.

4:40Sara JensenExactly. I was going to say, now that we spent all this time discrediting what comes out of Chat GPT... in this case, I think it nailed it.

4:46Full points.

4:47So let's just shift into the other question that Crystal had asked us to touch on and, getting a little bit more tactical here, but what should you be focusing on in this next year? Because I don't think anyone can say search has not changed. Search has definitely changing, just as search has always changed since it came out it's going to see some pretty dramatic changes in 2025.

5:10So what do we want people to be focusing on first and foremost?

5:15Shea KarssingSo as it's also like the more things change, the more things stay the same. So I actually really admire how Google is advancing and using AI. In fact, To actually give us more quality outputs in our search results.

5:31And by quality, we looking at things like the E-E-A-T score.

5:35So expertise, experience, authority, and trust. And what to all four of those things have in common? Humans.

5:43So again, it's coming back to if you're a human and you have expertise and you have experience to share that's immediate authority and trust that you can then demonstrate wherever you're showing up online.

5:57So I feel like what we've been seeing in the last few years AI, Those little hacks and tricks that people used to try of, I don't know, getting a whole bunch of backlinks from ghost sites or stuffing the content with keywords. Actually creates a low quality output.

6:17Those kinds of things aren't working anymore. And that's wonderful.

6:21Because it actually simplifies the whole process of SEO into.

6:26Are you using your human expertise to create quality content that other people want to read? And if you're doing that, then you're doing SEO right. And that's nothing new.

6:38But Google's getting better at finding it.

6:40And actually penalizing those who don't do that. And I think that's wonderful.

6:44Sara JensenYeah I feel like we might disappoint people that we don't have some slick tip or something to rocket you to the top of the search results. That kind of is the tip: don't do those things.

6:54Because inevitably what happens is Google catches on that people are doing it and then they slap it down.

7:00And that's exactly what we saw with the E-E-A-T update.

7:02People were creating hundreds and thousands of pages on their website with AI generated content. And it was just a bunch of junk.

7:10And Google caught up because it's not a good experience for the end user.

7:15Google is all about, at least they say they are. I know people quibble with it.

7:19They really do say they're trying to keep humans at the center of search. And so anything that games the system is not going to be good for the humans that are using the system.

7:31Shea KarssingAnd people often ask, does Google penalize AI content?

7:35No, it doesn't.

7:36What Google emphasizes, it's not about how the content is created.

7:40It's about the output and the quality outcomes.

7:43I still think, you're going to need to add a bit of your human experience and expertise to make it really, something worthy of a top result.

7:51But again. Use AI, just make sure that your human EEAT is coming through.

7:57Sara JensenYeah, definitely. I think a lot of people in the SEO space

8:01Are worried about, Google's doing these AI summaries on a lot of queries. And then search GPT is oh, they're taking market share.

8:10And, you can get all of this without ever clicking into the websites.

8:15Shea KarssingI think attribution becomes more important to the user. I know it has personally for me.

8:20So if maybe two years ago, if I'd done a search and there'd be an AI summary at the top, great. I would have accepted it and been really chuffed. That actually what I wanted to see was coming up straight away. Now that we're a little bit further down the line and I've learned a little bit more about how AI works and what to be aware of.

8:41I'll read the summary, but I want to see a link and I want to be able to click through and see where that information has come from.

8:47AI's smart. But I feel like humans, we are still smart. We are still able to discern.

8:53And I predict that we will more and more.

8:55Just as we have with the internet in general.

8:58I think people have become more aware of fake news and disinformation and misinformation and.

9:04Just double checking your sources. And cause we've all been burnt and we've all shared something that perhaps Accurate. And and we've all been scammed.

9:13Think of how advanced and sophisticated a lot of scammers have become. And how a couple of years ago. We probably would have fallen for those kinds of phishing attempts.

9:23And now, if I receive an email from someone who I don't know, I will not click an attachment. Whereas a couple of years ago, I might've.

9:30So I think again, we've got to give ourselves credit to us humans, that we're going to be able to seek those experiences that We can find the attribution and validation.

9:41And the human behind who's actually giving us this information.

9:45Sara JensenYeah, I think that's a great point. I'm very similar to you. I often just scroll past those little AI summaries at the top of my search.

9:53Because I want to see a source. And what is the source? And not just a blanket here's what I found on the internet from goodness only knows who?

10:02I would say my prediction is that we will see some sites decrease in their organic traffic.

10:10I think that's inevitable with the way that AI is presenting information to people.

10:16Probably not everybody is as skeptical as you and I are. But I think that's going to result in better conversion rates. And lower bounce rates because when people do come to your site, they will do so with more intention.

10:30They're not just looking for a quick answer. And they were never going to buy from you anyway.

10:35That's my prediction. Curious to see how it plays out. But, as you're looking at those metrics, don't just look at traffic. Look at how is the traffic converting on your site.

10:45Because that's telling you, are the people that are coming to my site actually my audience? Or are they just people who, are looking for whatever I was ranking for, but they're not my target customer.

10:59Shea KarssingYeah, that's a really good point. And I think, in marketing for a long time, we've seen that conversion rate is the gold standard.

11:06This is what we want to achieve. This is where the business goals are. But it can look wonderful and shiny and great when you're top of the search results and you're getting all this traffic and those are easy metrics to focus on and get excited about.

11:17But cool.

11:19Are you actually achieving your goals?

11:21And most of the time that goal looks like getting some kind of conversion and new business. So yeah, I think that's a really good point.

11:28Sara JensenI think the other piece of it I haven't really played around with search GPT very much.

11:34But I've been reading about it.

11:35And one thing that a lot of people have pointed out is that there are many functions of a website that search GPT can't necessarily supply.

11:46One of the biggest ones being e commerce capabilities. Like you can't, buy something, you have to pass over to that secure server on the e comm website.

11:57So again, don't let it scare you or make you think SEO is dead or any of this. It's just changing sort of the user experience. But it's not necessarily always a negative thing for your business.

12:12Shea KarssingYeah. Focus on the metrics that matter.

12:14Sara JensenYeah. A lot of people have been quoting Sundar Pichai.

12:18Who was just interviewed on the topic of how search is changing.

12:22And, what he said is that it's changing, but it's not going away.

12:26And I pulled a quote from him. He said, in a world in which you're flooded a lot of content.

12:32If anything, something like search becomes more valuable. In a world in which you're inundated with content, you're trying to find trustworthy content, that makes sense to you in a way reliably you can use it. I think it becomes more valuable. So there you have it from the CEO of Google.

12:47Pretty much the theme of what we've been talking about here today.

12:51Shea KarssingAnd something else that's just sprung to mind with that quote is I wonder, and I don't know when when you're searching for something, you're getting served results that are somewhat customized to you. And your context. And your search history, et cetera, et cetera.

13:06I wonder if AI is achieving that level of customization? Or if it's just that general aggregation? I don't know the answer.

13:15Sara JensenYeah, I don't know the answer either. I imagine it must be. In some way in as much as search can do it, but yeah, it's, I'm sure it's all still unfolding.

13:24Speaking of new ideas and 2025 predictions, I shouldn't say this is a new idea, but it's something that I think is becoming more and more relevant.

13:34Is how much offline activity impacts your SEO.

13:39A lot of people don't realize how much brand awareness plays a role in SEO and search rankings.

13:47Nobody can definitively say that Google looks at brand awareness as part of a site's authority score.

13:55But it's, a lot of really smart people have surmised that they do. It seems a lot like they do.

14:01And so when you're increasing your offline brand awareness. That's going to result in more searches for your brand.

14:08Which will increase your authority score because more people are looking for you. It's going to increase your relevancy.

14:13The more people see your brand, the more likely they are to Google it.

14:16As you're thinking about your strategy in 2025 and beyond, think about what are you doing offline?

14:23Even if you're an online business. that doesn't mean you should just be sitting in your office all the time, like working on your website.

14:29Get out into the world and really have a strategy for getting your business out there.

14:35Shea KarssingAnd I think to your point, it's also about having those multiple touch points. And again, if I feel like things are coming full circle.

14:42Digital world exploded, we were able to track and click. To a visit to a conversion, which is amazing. And it's wonderful to have that data.

14:49But there's something to be said for that awareness that you can't box it into analytics always.

14:56So if you think of some brands that you've engaged with, you might not remember where you actually heard of them.

15:02Or it can be a culmination of seeing something on social media. Seeing if it's a local business.

15:09Even a advertisement in your local newspaper. And see an article. Seeing some kind of activity that they're engaging in.

15:16Some charity activity or something like that.

15:18All those little things subconsciously affect your purchasing decisions without you even realizing it.

15:25So I think it's short sighted to pursue only one channel for all of your marketing.

15:32And think that's great.

15:33Sure, it might work. But you don't know what you could be missing out on.

15:36Not to mention that brand awareness that can help with your SEO too.

15:40Sara JensenYeah, I think that's great.

15:42As you're starting to think about the brand awareness piece, you can look at branded keyword searches and see, how are you doing on this?

15:51So are people searching for like your brand name pricing? Or your brand name alternatives?

15:57You want to be able to capture those queries and bring them onto your site.

16:02Just be aware of what is being searched for related to your brand out there.

16:07But also, those kind of offline touch points as well.

16:11Shea KarssingAnd again, those, a lot of those offline touch points come with an extra dose of trust. Because there can be a face there too.

16:19Sara JensenYeah, definitely.

16:20Just to wrap us up, I thought we would share our list of things that we are focusing on in 2025 and things for you guys to take a look at.

16:29The first one being quality of content over quantity.

16:33We've seen clear signals from search engines this year. Also just remembering that the quality of your content is a representation of your brand.

16:41So how do you want your brand to look and sound out there?

16:45Shea KarssingAnd also nowadays, because we have AI tools available to us.

16:49You could churn out how many blog posts a day if you really wanted to using AI?

16:54One every five minutes even! Yeah, that really speaks to quality because anyone can do quantity. Now, quantity, the gates, the floodgates have been opened.

17:02Quality is where the wins are.

17:04Sara JensenAnd, along with that, part of quality content is content written in your unique human voice.

17:10So focus on really developing that, bring that out. Maybe that's something that you haven't historically done for your business. This year is a good time to take a look at that.

17:20What is the voice that you have out there? Do all of your sort of customer touch points align to that voice?

17:27Next one on the list.

17:28Don't just be there to sell, have a dialogue with people, whether they're coming to your website or finding you on social media. Or whatever it is.

17:37I think we've gotten in the marketing space, super transactional.

17:41And so when brands do manage to have some kind of dialogue, it's unexpected. And can be delightful.

17:50And I'm just going to quickly share a meme. that I came across. So looking at marketing emails today. Yes. Very sad. Anyway, here's 15 percent off. Don't do that. Act like a human.

18:02And, along with that, just being generally, genuinely helpful to people too. So have an understanding of who you're writing for. What do you want them to get out of it?

18:09And, really all these tips. things to focus on, there's nothing new here.

18:14This is all stuff that we should have been doing all along, but a good checklist to look at your brand and say, am I doing these things?

18:20If not, here's some things to focus on.

18:22Shea KarssingBut I think a lot of them have become more important in a world proliferated with AI.

18:27So just as an example, in my own writing, I feel like I now make more of an effort to bring a unique voice to the table than I did pre AI. Because I don't want to sound like AI.

18:38And it's actually made me a better writer for it. I think it's been amplified.

18:42Although the advice has always been sound and always been there, it's become ever more important. Yeah,

18:47Sara JensenI think that's a great point. Also it's something that is changing is just the conversational language that people are using.

18:56Voice search is something that I don't think most people are thinking enough about.

19:00But just also as a society, People, in general, are becoming more casual.

19:06Language is becoming more casual. We don't speak to people like, dear sir or madam, greetings of the day. Like these things that sound so awkward now that used to be the standard way you would address people.

19:18And writing in a way that feels conversational. Is going to be more compatible with sort of the voice to text searches that are becoming more and more popular.

19:29Shea KarssingDefinitely. So it actually, it serves multiple purposes in that it's not necessarily for the sake of optimizing for voice search.

19:38It's also sounding again, like we keep coming back to sounding like the human that you are.

19:43And.

19:45speaking to people where they're at.

19:47Sara JensenBuild your email list. Email is not dead.

19:50It is not going away. This is what you own. Anyone can take away your followers on social media. They can't take away your email list. So focus on building your email list and keeping in touch with the people on there.

20:02We also talked a little bit earlier about conversion rates, making sure that you're tracking traffic that's turning into leads.

20:09Because that's giving you some insights into whether the traffic that you're getting is relevant.

20:14And then last one that, Shea, you talked quite a bit about is having those multiple touch points with your audience.

20:21Shea KarssingMaybe Sara, because we've, my fault, gone off a bit and throwing some tangents in here. Maybe just summarize that list one more time for everyone.

20:29Sara JensenSure. Focus on quality over quantity of content. Let your unique human voice shine.

20:36Don't be there to sell all the time. Have a dialogue with your customers or with your lead site visitors.

20:43Be genuinely helpful. So understand who you're writing for, what do you want them to get out of your content.

20:48Be more conversational. Perhaps more so than you might have been in the past. Build your email list.

20:54Track your conversion rates. When people are coming to your site, are they converting into leads or customers?

21:00And focus on creating multiple touchpoints with your brand. Both online and offline.

21:04Shea KarssingSo what are you most excited for in the world of marketing for 2025? Which of these trends or ideas excites you most?

21:14Sara JensenI think for me, it's really the looking at ways to. Build that brand awareness offline. And see how that translates to online.

21:23Because, that's something that a lot of smaller businesses shy away from brand awareness activities. And rightly so. Because you can't really track the efficacy of them.

21:35And if you have limited resources, You don't want to put them into something nebulous.

21:40You want to put it into something where you're going to see results.

21:44But you don't have to spend insane amounts of money on billboards and TV commercials and things like that.

21:50Shea KarssingTell us about what you've done with Brighter Messaging, for example.

21:53Sara JensenYeah. Getting out into my local community. So being a member of the chamber of commerce in my local town, Holly Springs, North Carolina.

22:01And other networking groups that are here.

22:04We've also participated in events in town where we, we've created a booth and we handed out balloons and things like that.

22:13Just to get our name out there. And to show we support the local community that we're in. That's not necessarily where our client base is.

22:21We have far more clients out of state than we do in state.

22:26Where I happen to live. But that's the opportunity that I have. That's relatively low budget, low commitment.

22:34But some things that I can do to be getting our name, our brand out there, forming real life relationships with people.

22:43Shea KarssingSo I think here's to the power of human connection.

22:46Even when we're talking about something like SEO. Where, the word is search engine optimization.

22:54It doesn't sound like something built for humans, but it is. And I think most of what we've talked about today is what really makes us human.

23:04And that is our connections to one another and our unique expertise.

23:09Call me sentimental, but I really love that. I think it's great that, things have come to a point where we've got the machines to help us. But actually it's all about the humans.

23:20Sara JensenYeah, that's true. I love that too. Thank you guys so much for listening.

23:24It's just a real honor for Crystal to let us take the seat today and come out and talk with you guys.

23:30We would love to continue the conversation. I'm Sara Jensen. I'm the owner and principal at Brighter Messaging. I would invite you to join our email list. We'll make sure Crystal puts a link to that in the show notes.

23:42You can also find me on LinkedIn.

23:44And Shea Karssing is our copywriter and SEO strategist. And she's also a freelance writer in her own right. Shea, you want to say a little bit about where they can find you?

23:52Shea KarssingLinkedIn is the best spot where we can just be humans together. So yeah, my name spelling is a little tricky, so you'll find that in the show notes too.

24:01Don't send Shea any chat GPT written connection requests. She won't accept them.

24:06Sara JensenIt'll be a hard no. All right. Thanks guys. Have a great day.