Combining Strategic SEO & Growth Mindset with Edwin Romero

0:00Edwin Romerothere's no point in ranking for like something that accrues several hundred thousands of searches and number one.

0:04And your website's not ready to deal with those types of intents.

0:07Leaning into a customer base that has relatively high intent. Which honestly means lower search value, longer, longer tail phrasing. It can help you increase conversions.

0:17But you also have to examine what the customer wants. And update your site accordingly.

0:21Crystal WaddellWelcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show. The podcast dedicated to empathy driven, brand building SEO. I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence.

0:37Thank you so much for being here.

0:39Let's jump into another great episode.

0:41Welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show podcast.

0:44I am here with a friend that I met at Brighton SEO in San Diego, Edwin Romero, and we crossed paths. I don't know. Maybe I think it was like in an after event, and just chatted it up and then, stayed in touch over the last few months.

0:57And I've just been, applauding you and watching you as you're growing your business. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

1:04Edwin, tell us all about you and how you got started in SEO.

1:07Edwin RomeroFor sure.

1:08Thank you for having me, Crystal. I really appreciate it. And I do remember it being one of the highlights from Brighton SEO, having a conversation with you.

1:13I was like, that was a really good chat. I really liked it.

1:16But as far as me. I'm an independent SEO consultant. I focus on a few things, including website migrations.

1:21I guess my niche, is Salesforce Commerce Cloud sites.

1:24So those are e commerce websites. That's like the B to C arm for Salesforce.

1:28Between the website migrations and being involved with Commerce Cloud. It's allowed me to maneuver through diverse groups. Communicate effectively.

1:35But also get an understanding of what really impacts a brand when going into a website migration.

1:40But also what impacts a brand based on the lack of resources.

1:43I think as SEOers, we come in hot sometimes. We're like, we have all these lists of things to do. Can you please implement all of them? Or sometimes it's not even please.

1:50Just implement them. That's not how brands operate.

1:52There's not an infinite budget. It's all finite. So we have to prioritize accordingly.

1:57And what that's helped me do is translate my skills I've built up for Commerce Cloud and website migrations.

2:03The skills were very applicable to other platforms. And, honestly, I'm super grateful that, that I've been on this journey. Two years on my own.

2:10I started off because I wanted to help our family business. So now I'm juggling that, my SEO practice and family business.

2:15And it's a pretty cool dynamic.

2:17Crystal WaddellSo what is your family business?

2:18Edwin RomeroYeah. So we import goods from South America, Ecuador and Peru.

2:22It's grains, fruits, frozen frozen, frozen vegetables and frozen fruits. And then we import them through our storefront, but we also sell it Wholesale.

2:32So we sell to the Midwest.

2:33And, I'm really proud of my parents.

2:35Because they've actually built out the distribution network to the point where we're the largest South American provider in the Midwest.

2:41Crystal WaddellWow, that's amazing. Yeah, so you caught the entrepreneur bug from your parents.

2:46Edwin RomeroYeah, I did.

2:47Don't get me wrong, I love the safety net of being at a company. The 9 to 5.

2:51Knowing what you're gonna face. The health insurance, the salaries.

2:54The regular stuff. But, I do enjoy it.

2:56I get to meet a lot of cool people that I wouldn't have otherwise.

2:59Like yourself, folks from Brighton, and even like with the my parents business, I get to meet a lot of cool folks, In the community.

3:06So I'm Ecuadorian. And one of the things I wanted to do was bring my son up, within the Ecuadorian culture.

3:12So I was like, this actually serves multiple phenomenal purposes. So since I've started working with them, I'm learning all these cool things and I'm bringing them home.

3:18And, I share with my family. It's a lot of fun. Very rewarding.

3:22Crystal WaddellThat is so neat. I love it when things do serve like a dual purpose.

3:25Because anytime I can bring my son into our business, I really like to do that.

3:28Even to show him like, Hey, you can do these things. And turn that into something tangible.

3:32Like a game that you want. Because you earn the money.

3:35There's been times where I'm like, Asher, paint this or do this or whatever.

3:38But it's so good for them to see it, what work means. Because sometimes especially children, they just think things just appear.

3:45There were some terms I wasn't familiar with on your website and you said them again.

3:50So you mentioned that you use Salesforce commerce cloud .

3:54And, most of the people who are listening right now Are entrepreneurs or maybe other aspiring SEOs.

4:00But we're not really familiar with that side of, businesses because that sounds like enterprise, like huge businesses and stuff.

4:07But could you give us like a brief synopsis of what that even means, that Salesforce Commerce Cloud?

4:13Edwin RomeroSure. So one of the biggest competitors for Salesforce Commerce Cloud right now is Shopify.

4:16So if you've used Shopify itself, it's a content management system that helps facilitate ecommerce transactions, right?

4:23It's just a, yeah, it's just a, it's a website store.

4:25And Salesforce Commerce Cloud is in that same vein.

4:28Except it's way more robust. It's way more robust than a Shopify site.

4:32And I believe at this point, the market and the folks that live live and breathe Salesforce Commerce Cloud.

4:38It's being rivaled by the Shopify folks that are coming up, learning the platform, how to integrate it with various other connectors and vendors.

4:45How to optimize it, how to build it.

4:47So it is. Enterprise level. No, actually I would say it's more in the class of medium.

4:52Because when we get into enterprise level, there are even platforms above that.

4:55Like I think SAP hybrids is a, it's an e commerce platform that is super robust, super rigid.

5:00Salesforce commerce cloud is in that Goldilocks state, where you can do certain things.

5:04You can mess around with certain optimizations. Got tests.

5:07But it's also rigid in the fact that you're always going to need a developer.

5:09In some aspects, it's like WordPress where you can optimize page titles, meta descriptions, sitemap, robots.

5:14But in other aspects, it's not like you can say you can look for a plugin that helps you build schema. Products you want.

5:20Rather, you have to have a developer that's familiar with commerce cloud.

5:23Come in and build it for you, build it into the website.

5:26Crystal WaddellYeah. So I think that's the biggest difference for, probably myself and many people listening is like.

5:32When you use a company like Shopify. They integrate all of those things for you. And then if there are other things that you need, they have like their app store.

5:40So you don't necessarily have to, hire a developer.

5:43You can hire the developers products.

5:46So that makes it a little bit easier, as an entrepreneur.

5:49But I'm glad that you're bringing up these different e commerce providers.

5:52Because we haven't talked about, the. Salesforce Commerce Cloud. I've never even heard of that before.

5:57And then we also haven't talked about Magento. What is Magento? Another competitor of Shopify?

6:02Edwin RomeroYeah, it's another e commerce platform.

6:04Most websites should be transitioned off Magento one onto Magento two.

6:08Like Magento two should be a little bit more stable.

6:11As a platform now, I've worked on some of those sites.

6:14Every website has its kind of rigidness and there is some rigidity. If that is a word.

6:18With M2. Magento 2.

6:20And it's not bad though. It's also one of those platforms that you can go back. Go in there and just mess around. You can optimize, you can do things.

6:27It's a little bit more customizable.

6:29In Shopify, they have their plugin marketplace.

6:31For one client, the SEO capabilities of Magento two weren't enough.

6:35So we had to download, I think Maj Works. Which is a kind of an SEO extension. We had to purchase it for, I forget how much.

6:41And then with that, they were able to optimize the website a little further.

6:44So yeah, it's another e-commerce platform.

6:45Crystal WaddellOkay, and then you mentioned another term called migrations.

6:49There's a few different things that are in here that, people are probably like, what is that?

6:52But I'm trying to find them one at a time and pull them out.

6:55But what is a migration and how do you do it successfully?

6:59And why would you do it?

7:00Edwin RomeroYeah, why you would do it?

7:02That's, I think that's the best place to start. Why would you undergo a migration? And it's totally dependent on the brand's needs.

7:07So it's dependent on... maybe the technology that your website is running on right now is very archaic.

7:12And there's either an updated version on the same CMS.

7:15Or, based on the needs, it'd be more cost effective to move to another platform.

7:19For the most part, I've experienced homegrown going into another system. So Commerce Cloud, typically.

7:24Now a migration can mean a lot.

7:26It can mean a redesign.

7:28A lot of folks confuse. Okay, let's do a migration on the home page.

7:30When it's like you're not migrating the home page. You're just doing a redesign.

7:33You're fixing up some aspects of those Homepage design so that it's a little bit more user friendly, a little bit more oriented towards conversions.

7:40Migration can also mean moving from one host to another.

7:43In that case, It doesn't affect, it may not affect URLs, or it may. It just depends on the kind of the transition.

7:49Primarily, what I deal with is migrations that move from one platform on over to another platform.

7:54Now, because of the switch, There are certain capabilities in each platform that cannot be transitioned over to the other.

8:00So what that means is a change in URLs, a change in metadata, a change in, honestly, the architecture.

8:05The primary pitfalls that I see occur is a lack of planning.

8:08And then looping in SEO early on.

8:10Sometimes I'm brought in a month out with the clients asking me, Hey, can you optimize this in the next four weeks?

8:16Depending on the effort, I can say yes or no.

8:19Like it's gonna be a big risk and I can help you but we just have to get that risk out of the way.

8:24Crystal WaddellOkay, so you're saying that there's not enough planning.

8:27And this really is resonating with me because I am switching.

8:31I'm actually breaking apart my Personal brand, if you will.

8:35I've got Crystal Waddell, the Knowledge Vomiter.

8:37And then I also have the Simple and Smart SEO part of what I do.

8:41And so I'm moving all of the podcasts and SEO stuff to simpleandsmart.com.

8:47Which is right now it's hosted by Buzzsprout.

8:49And so it's interesting to me, like, how do you. How do you plan for that? Do you have any tips for planning the migration?

8:56Edwin RomeroAgain, it always goes back to what the goal is. In a case like yours.

9:00I think it, it makes, to me, it resonates really well because I'm on the same boat.

9:03I talk about SEO. I talk about life, I talk about entrepreneurship. So splitting makes a ton of sense.

9:08I think it's in terms of yours, planning.

9:10I think it comes back to how do you want to serve the customer?

9:13How do you want to serve the user? If it's SEO, it's a little bit.

9:16I would say straightforward in that you're serving people that have SEO in mind on your other, business line.

9:21But again, it's the goals and what you hope to accomplish with your user.

9:25Crystal WaddellUltimately I want it to host my podcast. And then also serve as kind of a natural funnel if you will I guess into my membership the SEO squad.

9:35Edwin RomeroCool. Oh, yeah, that's pretty cool, then. Yeah.

9:36If the lines are combined then it makes that whole path towards the membership a little bit more muddy.

9:41So that's impressive for one.

9:42That's really cool.

9:43When we're like talking about like brands online who are trying to make that migration.

9:48The planning typically Like when we're talking about medium to enterprise level, the planning starts anywhere from nine to 14 months out.

9:55From the actual migration date. Yeah. So it's a long pathway.

9:58Only reason is you have so many. Disciplines, you have so much that goes into a website migration from the redesign, from UX. From content. Accessibility.

10:07And all these stakeholders.

10:08Crystal WaddellOkay, yeah, you got my question in the chat.

10:10Edwin RomeroYeah, how do I keep my podcast episode links from being broken?

10:13Redirects.

10:14Redirects in a Migration are your bestest of friends.

10:18Often when something goes wrong it's probably tied to the redirects and how they are not as strategic.

10:22I think what you can do in that case is just make sure that you test your redirects.

10:26You can do that with screaming frog, crawl your website.

10:28Pertinent links that you know are going to transition off, and into a separate domain, separate property. Keep track of those.

10:34Keep tabs of those. So now when you're building out your website, your new website, I'm not sure what the redirect capabilities are on the new platform.

10:41But make sure that the capabilities are there and that you've, Accounted for the legacy URLs, the URL paths, so that they are, honestly, that they toggle and resolve to an optimal experience.

10:51Now, where's your main website right now? Where's it housed on?

10:54Crystal WaddellMy main website is on Shopify.

10:56Edwin RomeroIt's on Shopify. And that includes the SEO SEO podcast?

10:59Crystal WaddellThat's hosted by Buzzsprout. It's just like you can click and it's a 301, from my website to the Buzzsprout site.

11:07Edwin RomeroYeah. Okay. So that's pretty straightforward.

11:09As long as you catalog those, you'll be good. Actually that's a good starting point. And then you want to test them, of course, again, with the Screaming Frog crawler.

11:16Just run them through Screaming Frog and make sure they resolve to their new location.

11:19It'll take time, but I think the benefit is that. You've already accrued authority on your what's going to be the legacy pages. That should transfer over with 301 redirects.

11:28Crystal WaddellYeah. And then there's that option of letting Google know what you're doing. Do you think that's worth, do you think that's actually worth doing when you're migrating a site from one domain to another?

11:38Edwin RomeroIf it's the entire domain, yeah.

11:39If it's the entire domain, if it's partial, partially, migrated, because that also happens as well. I wouldn't suggest it.

11:44Because then Google might misunderstand that. In your case, are you migrating the entire domain?

11:48Crystal WaddellYes, because everything right now is

11:51I don't know if I'm going to have to, maybe send it to Wix and then connect the Membership Platform on the backside, but I was hoping to use the Membership Platform just as an all in one.

12:00Edwin RomeroThat's really neat. That's awesome. Yeah.

12:02Good for you. Being able to juggle all these technologies.

12:04That's awesome.

12:05Crystal WaddellI love technologies.

12:06Yeah.

12:06And I, I've been using Searchie.io for a while.

12:08Because Searchie is a video platform and you can actually search the podcast. Like I created a GPT for the podcast.

12:16In the show notes, all you have to do is just click, Search the show.

12:19People can search the podcast for free. So the only thing I ask is that you give me your email address.

12:24But you hit that link and it'll take you to where you just put in your name and email address.

12:29And immediately you have access to all 100 plus episodes that I've created.

12:34And you can search it. And then it pops up if you have a question about on page or meta descriptions or, whatever.

12:41It immediately takes you to the places in each podcast that references it. So you can listen to it.

12:47And it's so cool because you can just get your information immediately without having to just comb through a whole bunch of stuff that you don't really need.

12:54Edwin RomeroThat's cool. I didn't realize that type of platform existed.

12:57Crystal WaddellYeah, it's awesome. Especially when you think about memberships and courses.

13:01One of my friends, Rachael, she said, when people want information, the one piece of information that helps you get unstuck and keep it moving.

13:08You don't even really look at anything else because you just needed that one piece. But the. Negative is that you typically have to sift through all of the stuff that's irrelevant to you, right?

13:19So that's why I love Searchie so much.

13:20Because as an entrepreneur I can just respect that, it's like I have limited amount of time.

13:25i'm doing a lot of different things Just give me the information that I need so that I can move on to the next thing.

13:30I just want to solve my problem.

13:31And so that's why I created that gpt because I know a lot of people listen to the podcast.

13:36But I also know sometimes you just have a question about a specific tactic or strategy or term. And so it's just really nice that you can go there and find that immediately.

13:46Edwin RomeroYeah. Do you get like data stats on the the search the searches that are made?

13:50Crystal WaddellThere's stats on the backside.

13:51Yeah, it gives you, retention facts. It gives you like search queries and all of those types of things. So it's like you have your own search engine where you can find stuff out.

13:59So

14:00Edwin RomeroI have to check it out. That's pretty cool.

14:01Crystal WaddellSo the other thing that was on your homepage that, I did not look up this word before we chatted.

14:06So I wanted to ask you like, what is pragmatic SEO?

14:10Because you described yourself as a pragmatic SEO. Or that you do pragmatic SEO. So can you break that down for us?

14:17Edwin Romeroso being a pragmatist in part means just Coming to terms with reality.

14:21And working with the circumstances of the cards are dealt. That's how I interpret pragmatism.

14:25Now SEO As a business line as a as an offering I think should fall under that same umbrella should fall in the same vein.

14:34You know, I mentioned earlier Where SEOs sometimes come in hot. They want everything done and they want it done all at once. But the fact of the matter is you just can't have that.

14:42As an entrepreneur, like I can respect that as well. Where, hey, you know what? I'm limited by budget.

14:48I can only do so much. They're 24 hours in a day.

14:50Being pragmatic as an SEO-er means being a partner who respects that the lack of resources and the circumstances.

14:56And works with under the conditions that a brand finds themselves within.

15:00Now, what that also means is that I work with brands.

15:03I love having a conversation.

15:05Like we're having conversation right now. The best relationships I've had with clients is when we can sit down.

15:09Face to face, camera to camera, and just have a conversation.

15:12Reason being is, you open up about what keeps you up at night, and I offer up how I can be of service.

15:18Now, if there's something that I cannot do, I'm gonna be transparent.

15:21And say, no, I'm also bound by certain limitations, but.

15:25I can help you in certain aspects of your business. Whether it be just communicating, facilitating relationships between various stakeholders.

15:31Or just level setting expectations on what can be accomplished in a specific timeline.

15:36It can mean a lot. Being pragmatic is, is a mouthful.

15:39Crystal WaddellYeah, so I guess I'm pragmatic. I didn't even realize that. So that's fun. That's a fun word to say.

15:44So I'll probably be using it in the future.

15:46But one thing I think it's really important to talk about here, too Is the fact that a lot of people think that, okay If I implement SEO.

15:53The magic is then going to happen with conversions.

15:56And so how do you have that conversation with people when you're, speaking about their goals?

16:02Edwin RomeroWhat I like to do is SEO and organic search is a traffic generator. And I think it's really important just to get that out of the way first.

16:09But one of the questions that I follow up with my clients is what conversion optimization projects have you taken on?

16:14And sometimes they say, not that many.

16:16Sometimes they say here they are.

16:19And the goal is to I'm not going to say I'm a conversion optimization expert.

16:22But my end goal is to get them to start thinking about conversions because what's the point of driving all this traffic and having none of it convert?

16:29I think I was talking to my wife several years ago.

16:31I was shifting away from short tail, high volume keywords.

16:35To prioritizing medium and low search volume.

16:38Because the intent is a little bit more specific.

16:40And I mentioned to her, there's no point in ranking for like something that accrues several hundred thousands of searches and number one.

16:46And your website's not ready to deal with those types of behaviors, those types of intents.

16:50Leaning into a customer base that has relatively high intent which honestly means lower search value, longer, longer tail phrasing. It can help you increase conversions.

17:00But you also have to examine what the customer wants, and update your site accordingly.

17:04Crystal WaddellYeah. Wow. What a great answer. I think that's probably going to be the lead into this particular podcast. And then I'm glad that you mentioned your wife. Because I know we're bouncing around a little bit, but that's how my brain works.

17:14Cause you have a podcast, the out of office podcast.

17:17And you mentioned even on your website that you did, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

17:21What's your podcast about?

17:22Edwin RomeroYeah, so it's the out of office chat.

17:25I was a musician growing up. And I love having that kind of creative outlet.

17:29And as I became an entrepreneur juggling two organizations., I was being a little stressed out.

17:35I felt like I was feeling a little backed up in terms of my creativity.

17:38So I wanted to do something. But my time was already so scrunched between being a family man, having a toddler, running two businesses.

17:45And trying to keep my sanity.

17:46So I'm like, what can I do that's relatively low effort? That I know will be rewarding?

17:51And I started doing this podcast. So basically the podcast is me talking through what i've been up to in my life.

17:58And you know, in the immediate.

18:00And it's funny because it's turning into more of a review into books and movies.

18:03Because that's what I end up doing. Those are like my hobbies now. Books, movies, and of course like everything I do with my, my, my wife and my son, soccer practice.

18:10Hanging out here, playing, imagination.

18:12It's all phenomenal.

18:13But you know what, the one, one thing that remains static is every evening I just read a book. I read a book, and I wind down the day that way.

18:20It's been phenomenal as a de stressor. And the podcast goes into kind of the stuff that I've been reading how I've been applying it.

18:26It's some self help books, but even that, is a little, it burns you out.

18:29Because you take something in, and you start thinking, I have to apply X, Y, Z, I have to apply X, Y, Z.

18:34I combine a lot of like non a lot of fiction stuff that reads like fiction. I recently got done reading a book called Red Notice.

18:39Which was about a gentleman who went into Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. To start his investment company.

18:45And for when he's there he faces like a whole bunch of opposition from like oligarchs in the in the country. And him trying to maneuver through the economy there.

18:52I thought that was a phenomenal read.

18:54A couple of Months back, I read another book about... I'm not sure, it's a little bit woo ish.

18:58But out of body experiences. Where individuals find themselves leaving their bodies.

19:02And this gentleman, Robert Monroe, he studied he was able to do it regularly.

19:05So he amassed several journals on him trying to do it.

19:07And it's It's pretty wild how how often it occurs in, in my circles.

19:11So I'm talking to somebody and it's hey, have you ever felt the vibrations? And they're like, oh my gosh, yeah. I felt them like I was a kid.

19:17So it's really wild, how often it surfaces.

19:19Right now I'm reading a book about actually no, my next podcast episode is going to be about Funnily enough, the multiverse.

19:24I've read a book called The Midnight Library.

19:27Now, I finished watching Everything Everywhere All at Once, and I'm reading like when the idea or the concept of the multiverse came up.

19:33I'm looking at the history and some of the lore around that, and it's not SEO specific, but I think it's really fun.

19:38And it's a way, it's a really great way to de stress amidst like my circumstances.

19:42Crystal WaddellYeah, absolutely. I love that. I'd love to hear how people spend their time.

19:46And I'm I was always an athlete growing up, but what most people didn't know is that I would spend my Friday nights reading.

19:52Mainly because my dad, and I know you're listening, dad, but my dad didn't really want me to go anywhere, ever.

19:57So I read a lot as a child and I still love to read. So it's inspiring in a way that's how you decompress and de stress.

20:04Because it's like, yeah, that sounds like a perfect like weekend to me is finding, a great book that kind of takes your mind off of it.

20:11And since we're telling stories here, one of the things I like to do to de stress is actually watch Jeopardy.

20:17And So it's like my mind is always racing but there's something about jeopardy that really slows it down. And I usually learn something.

20:24But whenever i'm feeling really overwhelmed, especially at dinner I asked my husband to put on jeopardy and we watched two or three episodes in a row.

20:31That's really cool.

20:32Yeah, it's a fun little way to deal with stress, I don't know.

20:37Edwin RomeroYou have to, right? I think we're, you and I were both juggling businesses.

20:40And you have to find a way to like slow things down.

20:42Crystal WaddellYeah, so you left a corporate job in seo and now you are an entrepreneur in seo. How is the stress of the two different?

20:51Edwin RomeroYeah.

20:52For one, I was managing people. At my corporate job, about three years ago.

20:56I loved it.

20:57And I carried that with me going into like My independent consultancy.

21:00I loved Being able to teach people. Educate.

21:03And I think it got to a point where people called me Professor Edwin at my corporate job.

21:08Yeah, because I had these training sessions.

21:10That part I absolutely adored and I've done some webinars on my own as an independent.

21:14But there's so many other responsibilities as an independent.

21:17I think the stresses from corporate are more akin to they're more around managing people.

21:22But because I was in management, I also had to manage up.

21:25So I had to deal with my directors and VPs.

21:29And then I also had to get businesses, not just for myself, so I remained billable.

21:33But I also had to make sure my team was billable. So that meant going out and working with other business lines to see if they needed SEO support. To come and bring that work into our group and then make sure that they're billable above a certain percentage.

21:44So that part was pretty stressful. The people management part was probably my favorite and the education as well.

21:49Now the stresses I have now or like the difficulties. Are more around...

21:53my wife actually applauded me for this. She's like when your back is against the wall, you find a way.

21:56And that's not where you have to have that mentality or it's if I don't, if I don't get business, how are we going to eat?

22:00So it's that kind of rigor that helps me find clients. But you also have to manage things like, okay, you're your own finance person. You're your own PR person. You're your own HR.

22:09You're your own legal.

22:10And then, you're juggling so many hats. And then you multiply that by two because I'm also helping our family business. So just strictly SEO, the community is really strong.

22:19And thankfully then my network. I've built a pretty strong network where they're very supportive. Yourself included.

22:24Brighton was a great opportunity to meet people that I knew online.

22:27I'm not sure if you know Jamar Ramos. Jamar is a phenomenal, he's just a phenomenal person. I was so glad to meet him.

22:33He was so instrumental in helping me understand how to structure my proposals properly and what to think about.

22:38Jeff Romero. I think Jeff is based out of California, but he was also somebody that was in the commerce cloud space.

22:45We became friends a couple of years ago. And he was kind enough to similar. He just offered advice on how to maneuver through certain engagements.

22:51And how to structure proposals and whatnot. So the community is very strong.

22:55And I'm a pretty firm believer, If if your intentions are really pure and you're really kind.

23:00Then things will start happening.

23:01And even then if you reach out to folks you put it out there. Folks are more than happy to end up helping hand.

23:07Oh Nick LeRoy is another one.

23:08He was Just a really kind gentleman.

23:10Got the chance to meet him last year. And the list goes on and on. So even if you're faced with like certain, like difficulties or what may look like roadblocks, there's more than likely someone out there that, that can shed a light.

23:21So, the differences are plentiful. I still like my situation much more. I get to juggle my lifestyle. Although the security, and I will say this.

23:29The security of a corporate job. It's nice, right? You have that net.

23:32You have health insurance. You have a steady salary. You work with more people, on a day to day, you're filled with teammates.

23:38You can reach out to other folks the other disciplines.

23:41So That part, I do miss.

23:43But I'm enjoying myself right now. I really am.

23:45Crystal WaddellYeah, for sure. I'm just, I'm nodding because I can totally empathize with everything that you're saying.

23:51It's really fun.

23:52Shifting into some of this stuff that you've learned from other SEOs.

23:55Because Jamar is somebody that I hope to have on the podcast at some point.

23:58Because I've heard him speak and just, I thought what he had to say was really cool.

24:02But learning from other people about building an SEO strategy, what have you learned there? What are some common mistakes that people might make?

24:11Edwin RomeroI think the mistake folks make is SEO-ers come in and you know they try to fit in a previous strategy. And apply it to another brand.

24:18And a couple of months ago.

24:19I find myself, I had to build a couple of proposals. And I was guilty of it.

24:22And I was like, all right, let me, I have this old proposal.

24:24Let me see if I can apply it to this new one. And you know what? It's funny because what it felt was taking this unique. Uniquely shaped object.

24:32And then trying to place it into a container that didn't fit it. I struggled with it.

24:35So that's how strategy is. You're taking something that is unique and a brand that with unique situations.

24:40And then if you try to mold it into something that doesn't, fit it.

24:43Then it's going to be very uncomfortable for everybody involved.

24:45For the SEO-ers, for the brand. And the clients.

24:48So making sure that the strategies are tailored uniquely to the brand's needs is critical. And. A pretty big component to that is starting with the customer.

24:57What is your brand selling? What does your customer want? And where are they in the purchasing cycle?

25:01For example, I worked with a tool company last year they sold specialized tools and they have an added fan base really popular amongst folks that are outdoorsy.

25:09As well as folks that work with work with their hands around the home.

25:13No. What they were finding is that market can be tapped out, everyone that knows and is an avid fan, you can corner that, that group. So how do you reach new audiences?

25:23So that was their, problem. Their goal. Yeah, their goal. So that was their goal, was to reach new audiences.

25:29And so I, when I performed the audit, I was like.

25:32Y'all aren't really explaining what your tools are meant for. You're not educating. So although it may have a different impact to organic search, it goes back into conversions to a degree, right?

25:42Could because you're educating the audiences that are coming into the website. You're guiding them on the tool, the background, its purposes, how they can leverage it.

25:49So this guided selling approach where you're Coaxing everyone in.

25:52Okay, you might like it for this. You might like it for that. And from there on out, I think what you can build in part is-

25:58I'm not sure if you're familiar with, it's like category, like a category grid, category product grid.

26:02So it's pretty common around e com sites.

26:04Where like you have a parent level category, right?

26:06But You can't dive into the product grid. 'cause it's overwhelming. You have too many products all at once.

26:11So a really good tactic to use is split up those subcategories on a parent category.

26:15If your parent category is about, let's say watches.

26:19And your audience sees a whole bunch of watches, that's great, but they're inundated with information and they don't know how to behave.

26:24So rather. chop up watches into men's watches, women's watches, kids watches, so on and so forth.

26:29Or if you're on like a men's watches parent category.

26:32Go with brown watches, go with chic watches, go with formal watches or analog watches.

26:37So break it up a little bit more. So that it's more consumable and users have a better idea of how to navigate.

26:42So that's what I mean about creating something a little bit more tailored to your audiences.

26:46Now the tactic, of course, you can use across various websites.

26:49But you're building out subcategories or these grid links.

26:52So that it's a little bit more digestible, a little bit more custom.

26:55Crystal WaddellOh, my gosh. That is so helpful because again, from the entrepreneur perspective, I just built the thing. You know what I mean?

27:02I didn't come with a strategy or come with a layout or any kind of organization.

27:06And if you didn't know, I help parents celebrate their kids and their sports careers.

27:10What I didn't realize was that, like you said, here's a bunch of ideas for different sports.

27:14That was overwhelming for the parent who was coming there to celebrate their kid who played football. Or volleyball or track. They're like is this for me?

27:22Because this isn't necessarily my kid's sport. If I see a football player, does my track self really connect with that?

27:29And so then I had to make those categories, but I never fully understand how to make that. A visual representation. And it's so simple the way that you put it, but I never did that, and so I'm so excited to go back and not only do it for my website, but to share it with my SEO squad.

27:45My SEO support group and just share with them, like how you could organize this in a really easy.

27:51Easily digestible, easy to see and understand way.

27:56Like just in a split second, you have it right there in front of you. A lot of information, but organized in a way that's yeah, duh. That makes sense.

28:03Edwin RomeroYeah. And you know what, it goes back to the conversion optimization question earlier. That's a huge part of it.

28:08How do you prepare? How do you make sure that your users is getting the most optimal experience so that they're not, you know, overwhelmed?

28:14Crystal WaddellYeah, I think that's one of the best questions to ask as you're setting up your site map.

28:19Or setting up, how you want your layout to go.

28:21And I don't think most people do that, because not because they don't care about their user.

28:27But just because the concept of a website is just put the information out there and then the people will come.

28:33And then it's not until later that you realize, okay, either they're not coming at all and you have to fix it or number two.

28:39They're coming in, but they're getting stuck for some reason.

28:41And it's really because you didn't lay it out.

28:44Edwin RomeroI agree.

28:44Crystal WaddellLet's talk about the steps of it, that, that grid idea.

28:48Every week I do something called follow through Friday. I don't know if you've seen those episodes.

28:52But what I like to do is take some piece of advice that you've given during the episode.

28:57And implement it for my business so that people can actually see me doing it and then, see how they can maybe apply it to their business.

29:04So I'm definitely going to do that.

29:05But I wanted to make sure that I highlighted that point that you said.

29:09That the SEO strategy, has to change, like the shape changes for every business. Like you can take some of the tactics that people are talking about.

29:17And, take those pieces and then put it into your own SEO strategy.

29:21But a lot of people that I've met, they're like, tell me exactly how to do it.

29:25And what you're sharing is. Here's the mindset of how to do it.

29:28And I really appreciate that.

29:30Edwin RomeroYeah, no worries. No worries.

29:31Strategy isn't something that, that came easy to me early on.

29:34And I think I appreciated way more for after a couple of things, including me being promoted to a manager. Me trying to retain business.

29:42But also as being on my own, me trying to get business. I think also a lot of phenomenal books out there have helped me understand it much better.

29:50Some of the common ones product led SEO was a really good way to look at at products or SEO through the lens of the product.

29:56And tailor a strategy around that. But then even non SEO books as well.

30:00The books I've read over the last several years have been instrumental in helping me grow. There you go. I have a list. I have an Excel list.

30:06The Lean Startup. There you go. The Lean Startup was an amazing book.

30:08Crystal WaddellOh, yeah.

30:09Edwin RomeroThe Lean Startup was phenomenal.

30:10Start with Why is another phenomenal book that I, that made me begin asking questions like, why are we doing this? To what ends? And honestly, with what means?

30:18And then a lot of other stuff helps me grow as a kind of a leader, as a thought leader. Ego free leadership was a great one. The science of growth, which was also modern.

30:27It's like the Lean Startup.

30:28Where it began to examine these tech companies and why everyone's like, well, Facebook got big because they just were at the right place at the right time. It's yes and no.

30:36But the reason, one of the reasons why they got big was through various iterations.

30:40Like the lean, how the lean startup covers it.

30:41But with these iterations, they were basically able to drop the fat and grow and maneuver through the market in their own way. In a successful way.

30:49So Strategy for me, yeah, the experience has helped, but also the theory that I learned through reading and applying that was also instrumental.

30:57Crystal WaddellWow, this is so awesome. I'm like I could again. I can't wait to talk to you again Are you going to be in san diego this fall?

31:04Edwin RomeroYou know what?

31:05Crystal WaddellMy wife and I

31:05Edwin Romeromy wife and I are expecting our second. Yay.

31:08Crystal WaddellCongratulations Thank

31:09Edwin Romeroyou, and he's due at the end of may so we have some time.

31:13I'm not sure yet I want to go I want to go but also I'm not sure With one toddler, it's a lot. Having two little bodies running around or two little bodies to take care of might be tougher.

31:22Crystal WaddellYeah, for sure. Okay. If someone wants to connect with you further, what's the best way for them to do that?

31:28Edwin RomeroThey can do it through my LinkedIn. They can visit my website. There's a contact form.

31:32Feel free to reach out to me. Always happy to have a conversation.

31:34Crystal WaddellOkay, I will drop all those links in the show notes for sure.

31:37Edwin, thank you so much. This was like inspiring in a way. Definitely informative, but I can't wait to go back and listen and figure out what exactly I'm going to do to apply to my business.

31:47It might be more than one thing because you just gave us so many like practical and tactical things that we can do to just, get better online.

31:55So thank you.

31:56Edwin RomeroThank you for having me Crystal. This was great. I really appreciate the kind words.

31:59Crystal WaddellYeah. And not just get better online, but get better as a business owner and an entrepreneur, you're right. To educate yourself in these ways.

32:06And just to be able to give yourself a bigger view of theory and just ideas.

32:10That was great too. So thank you. All right. I'll see you on LinkedIn.

32:14All right, guys. See you next time.