Can Your Email Sink Your SEO? 2024 Updates w/Kris Daria

This transcript was machine generated and lightly edited by a human. Please excuse any errors!

0:00Starting February 1st, Google and Yahoo are going to be implementing more stricter spam prevention measures to make sure that their customers are protected from spammers, spammers who send out spammy email.

0:12So it's not a big thing that we have to like panic and freak out about.

0:16But it's still something that we have to be aware so that we can prepare our business similar to when Instagram changes their algorithm, you just adjust, right?

0:23So just see it as that way.

0:25And it's the first time that Yahoo and Google are going to make these changes to their email algorithm rules in 20 years.

0:32So it is a big change.

0:56Crystal WaddellWelcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast.

1:00I'm so excited to be here with Kris Daria, who is a Klaviyo expert.

1:04And Kris, our paths crossed like probably in 2020.

1:08In the time that was clubhouse, and the big clubhouse boom.

1:12Kris DariaOh yes, I remember. Yes.

1:15Crystal WaddellYeah.

1:15So that's when I discovered that there were such things as Klaviyo experts.

1:19And you were the one that kind of rose above all others.

1:22So I'm super excited to have you here.

1:24Thanks for coming on the show.

1:26Kris DariaThank you for inviting me. I'm excited to be here, Crystal, and chat with you about Klaviyo and email.

1:31I know not a lot of people see email as this fun thing.

1:34Because I know it could be, intimidating.

1:36But I'm here to just, make email marketing more friendly and approachable.

1:39So that's all what I'm all about.

1:41Crystal WaddellYeah.

1:41I'm glad you're here too, because in 2024, one of my goals is to become more consistent with my email marketing.

1:49And I use Klaviyo. I know I'm not using it to its full potential.

1:53But we've talked before on the show about how we use sEO.

1:57Or, the whole point of optimizing our websites is to get people to come to our website.

2:02And then get on our email list.

2:04But, when you're talking about SEO.

2:07There's so many different factors there.

2:09That we spend so much time talking about optimization that it's, okay.

2:13But then what?

2:15And so that's what I was hoping that we could talk

2:17Kris Dariaabout today. Yeah.

2:18It's so true. We put so much effort into the magnetizing part of our marketing.

2:23So like the SEO, the social media and all that.

2:26And then beyond that.

2:28What's also equally as important is what happens to your customers or your visitors after they leave your website.

2:35The only way for them to come back for you to retarget them and come back.

2:39One of the cheapest ways is through email marketing.

2:42When somebody joins your list, you can easily retarget them and send them a message.

2:46You can do this manually or automatically.

2:48We'll get into that, but I think email marketing it's just going to add more fuel to the fire.

2:52To help your customers really continue that engagement beyond your website.

2:57Crystal WaddellAbsolutely.

2:58Okay.

2:58Can you tell us just a little bit about your story and how you became a Klaviyo expert?

3:03And, to now, in the beginning of 2024?

3:07Kris DariaYeah, sure.

3:08So, I was an e commerce marketer.

3:09I started my career working for big beauty brands.

3:13Retail brands in the digital marketing space.

3:15Back in 2010 when Facebook just started, becoming a thing.

3:19And people wanted to hire social media people to manage their Facebook pages.

3:23And so I grew my skills around e commerce.

3:26Because I wanted to really understand the relationship between the marketing.

3:31But also the customer beyond just, the advertising space.

3:34When I got into the e commerce space, one of the responsibilities I had was email marketing.

3:41And among, many other things you need to do to manage an e com store, an online store.

3:45I was managing a seven figure beauty retail brand and email marketing was generating 25 percent of our sales.

3:52Just from email marketing.

3:53But then when 2020 arrived at that time.

3:56I had just had my son. He was one year old.

3:59I was in my maternity leave from work.

4:01And I had the option to either go back to my corporate job.

4:05Or start working for myself.

4:07And start, using the skills I had. To help people during the pandemic.

4:12When a lot of businesses had to shut down their front end.

4:16Their physical brick and mortar stores and start selling online.

4:18And I saw the opportunity of helping with the email marketing part.

4:22There are already a lot of social media experts out there. But not a lot of people were specializing in email marketing for e commerce.

4:29And at the time people were creating their own Shopify store. Growing their Shopify store.

4:34And I came upon Klaviyo because I knew that Klaviyo and Shopify were just BFFs.

4:40So that's when I started to really specialize in Klaviyo and specifically building automated email sequences or email flows in Klaviyo.

4:50Around that time in 2020, I started working with my clients one on one. I started doing, VIP days where I would build their whole entire email ecosystem from start to finish in a day.

5:00And then that evolved over time.

5:02I do workshops, trainings.

5:04I am a guest email marketing coach in other people's e commerce programs.

5:09Now, my main focus is still email automations.

5:12And I do that with doing full flow setup.

5:15So one on one services. Or through my group program, my Flow Set Up Toolkit.

5:20So that's how I serve my customers right now.

5:23And it's still going to evolution. It's still an unraveling.

5:25So it's just interesting to see, whenever I meet my clients.

5:28What do they need help with?

5:29And how can I help them with the services and offers that I have?

5:32Crystal WaddellYeah You're right about just that resource for e commerce and so i'm curious, you know because you work with such a big brand You know working with smaller e commerce stores.

5:42I was just wondering what are the bigger brands doing?

5:44What are some things that smaller brands could take away from the bigger brands and apply it to their email, activities

5:51Kris Dariaas well.

5:52It's interesting because I having worked as an email marketer for bigger brands.

5:57What I've noticed is that bigger brands have a more commercial, transactional relationship with their subscribers.

6:04Whereas when I started working with smaller brands.

6:08Smaller, small business owners, founders.

6:11What helps them is actually learning from the bigger brands.

6:15And learning how to send out emails that look like they come from a friend and not like a glossy magazine ad.

6:21Because when I was in a bigger, when I was working for bigger brands, I would send out emails that were more transactional. They didn't, they weren't really personal.

6:28Because we can afford to be like that because we had the visibility we had already the connections and you were already present in stores.

6:34And so our awareness were and our reach was already high.

6:37But as a small brand and a small business owner, you need to stand out from the inbox. And the way to do that now, I believe is to make your emails look like they come from a friend, make them look personal.

6:46Make them less, transactional and, spammy.

6:50And focus on that so that you can nurture that relationship with your customers so that Your subscribers, they look forward to reading your emails whenever they see your brand pop in the inbox.

6:59Most big brands that I see now, they send out emails that, like I said, look like glossy magazine ads.

7:06And people, they don't want to read that. They just gloss over it. They ignore it most of the time and once in a while when there's like that big black friday deal They'll open it, right?

7:14But most of the time they ignore it because they always know it's the same promo on rotation all the time right?

7:18So when I work with my clients now with my with the clients who are you know, small to medium sized brands.

7:25I teach them how to unlearn from that.

7:27How to how to make their emails look more friendly more personal or more approachable.

7:32So that people will continue want to read and click and engage with their emails.

7:36Crystal WaddellIs there a certain cadence of email that you would recommend?

7:40Because some e commerce brands will send out multiple emails a week.

7:45I learned email marketing from digital marketers who were selling courses or that type of thing.

7:51So I come from that side of things. And then to marry that with best practices for e commerce, it's like, how does that work?

7:58Is there a cadence that really makes sense for e commerce in general, or does it just depend on the brand?

8:04Kris DariaYeah. So I recommend to practice sending out a consistent email newsletter weekly to your audience.

8:11Because what I've noticed is when clients only send out one email a month, they tend to stuff so much information in that one email that it gets, it starts to look like a pizza.

8:21And most times their subscribers, they forget if you only send one email a month, you're only getting That touch point once a month with your subscribers.

8:29So they forget that they even opted into your list.

8:31So they might unsubscribe or spam mark you as spam and you know mistakenly because they don't remember having joined your list.

8:38So I recommend keeping up with a consistent Whatever Cadence you can keep up with consistently.

8:44So if you can start only if you're just new to email marketing and one email a week is sounds too frequent for you, right now at this time, start with one email every two weeks.

8:54And then slowly you can build the muscle to practice sending another email every other week.

8:58So then eventually you'll get to one email a week.

9:01And then as you grow and you get more familiar with your email marketing, you can start to practice segmentation.

9:08And include that's what bigger brands do. They have the ability to really understand all the customer data that they have in their database.

9:16And use segmentation features to send out more targeted emails to a smaller grouping of their audience.

9:22So that second email, if you start to send out a second email in the week, I start recommending clients to see who can we target more specifically?

9:30Could it be our VIP clients?

9:31Or if I'm promoting something that's dedicated for menswear.

9:35Maybe if I just target the men in my audience, I'll send out that targeted email as a second set.

9:40Things like that, of that nature. Practice sending weeklies and what I would recommend you build up to.

9:45Crystal WaddellOne thing I love about Klaviyo is they have a lot of nice checklists.

9:49Like getting started, create this list, create this flow.

9:52And before I heard you speak in clubhouse, I had never heard of a flow.

9:59And, and then I grasped the concept of an email campaign, but could you break it down?

10:04Like the differences of campaigns and flows and what you think people should start with if they are ready to.

10:12Maybe do both, or just one, or just your thoughts on that.

10:16Kris DariaSure, so I, what I was just talking about were in Klaviyo they recognize them as email campaigns.

10:22So email that you send one to many.

10:24Email flows, or email sequences, automations.

10:27Those happen dynamically on a one to one level.

10:30So what happens is you can have an email, an automated email go out to a specific customer whenever they take an action on your website.

10:40So whenever they join your email list, you can send a welcome flow.

10:44To introduce them to your brand and get them to make their first purchase.

10:48Whenever they abandoned their cart, you can set up an automated cart abandoned reminder flow in Klaviyo to remind them, Hey, this is what you left in the shop.

10:56Feel free to come back.

10:57You can have a dedicated email sequence answering some questions, some objections to really convince that person who was on the fence to buy, right?

11:05Crystal WaddellYeah, that's a great idea.

11:07I have to interject there really quick because especially for people who are selling more expensive products.

11:12Or products that take a little effort on the part of the customer.

11:16Like for me, I make these giant photo collages for athletes.

11:19At collagewood. com.

11:21That takes some preparation for the person on the other side.

11:25And so I'm realizing as you said this that would be a great welcome flow.

11:29Just to say, Hey, you signed up for the coupon or, even in some retargeting type stuff, just explaining how the process works.

11:36That's another great opportunity to do that.

11:39Kris DariaExactly, and share also like testimonials from other customers who've enjoyed using your products.

11:45Highlight that in your automation so that way they feel like, oh, if I see other people who are enjoying your products, I might feel more inclined to buy.

11:53And even beyond when people come to your store and completes their purchase, you can continue having an automated post purchase sequence, post purchase flow.

12:03To continue nurturing those customers, you can have it really more personalized and targeted for your customers.

12:09New customers who buy my product for the first time.

12:12I'm going to send out a sequence that explains to them how to use this product.

12:17And eventually cross sell them into trying other product categories.

12:20And if it's a returning customer, you can say send out a personalized email that says, thank you for coming again, we value your loyalty.

12:28And maybe send them an invitation to join your loyalty program.

12:32Because at this point, you know that they like your product They came back many times.

12:36There's so many things you can do to personalize the customer journey from beginning to end.

12:41And this is why I love Klaviyo because not only it's designed for e commerce brands.

12:46Not only does it have advanced segmentation features, but it has that dynamic email automation capabilities for you to personalize the customer journey and send out more targeted, more personal emails in that way.

12:58Crystal WaddellSo are you saying that it's important to map out the customer journey first before you start creating the emails?

13:07Kris DariaOh yes. I recommend you start at the beginning.

13:09When someone just joins your list. So when somebody just joins your list, they're brand new to your products, your brand.

13:16They've never tried your products before, have a welcome sequence that teaches them about your products.

13:23So start from the beginning.

13:24And then, having that red carpet rollout almost, to welcome them into the community.

13:29That's how you, and it could be, there's little things you can do to make your emails Sound personal too.

13:34It's like having, a photo of yourself.

13:36A photo of your face at the bottom of your emails with your signature.

13:39Adding, a personal like PS at the bottom.

13:42Asking them questions to get them to reply to your emails.

13:45To make it seem like they're having that one on one conversation with you, the founder.

13:48The owner of the brand.

13:50Little touches like that is. something that I like to teach to my clients as they build and I set up their email flow so that way.

13:56It's not just like an automated computer sending out emails. It's really like a full, a friendly, email automation sequence that welcomes their customers and that nurtures their customers along the journey.

14:06So thinking about the customer journey in that way helps it feel more approachable and less techie and overwhelming sometimes. Yeah.

14:13Crystal WaddellAnd that's the problem I've had with welcome series for e commerce.

14:17Because I get it.

14:18You're like course creators or whatever, it's okay, we want you to buy this digital course.

14:21And there's all these different, emails.

14:25But for e commerce, I felt like it's not necessarily that it's just transactional, but people, a lot of times seem like they want to get in, they want their coupon or whatever. And then they want to make their purchase.

14:37But it feels, I don't know, like it just feels disjointed in a way, because the way that some people want to shop versus me wanting to have a conversation, a long conversation with them.

14:49And they're like, I just want my thing. So I can, move on with my life.

14:52Trying to find the balance there, I felt has been difficult with e commerce. And that's why I've shied away from a welcome series.

14:59But hearing you say this, I'm like, okay.

15:01There's definitely ways that I could add value to the email versus just one more thing they have to look at.

15:09Kris DariaOne of the things that could be interesting for your welcome sequence also in specific, like specific to Collage and Wood is like.

15:15Telling about your story. Like, how did you get inspired to start selling these products, start creating these products, what got you into your creating your business.

15:23A lot of people they don't recognize that there's a real human behind the brand. And so giving them a glimpse of how you got started can be inspiring in some way.

15:31And when people are shopping nowadays, especially after the pandemic, they're starting to look at, and they want to look for brands to support who align with their values.

15:39And if they can see that there's a real human behind the brand who believes in the same thing as me.

15:44Who values the same thing as me. Like they'll start to build that affinity and that work connection with your products. And that'll Bring them in for the long haul and not just that one time purchase.

15:53I feel like that's what I hear with my clients at least.

15:56Crystal WaddellI 100 percent agree. And one of my favorite episodes from last year was with Emma Boshart.

16:02And she does a lot of brand stories. And storytelling. And, connecting those things, is so important.

16:09There's been some emails that I've written that got a really great response.

16:13But I actually felt very vulnerable after I sent it.

16:16And they were so personal.

16:18That I actually had people email me back and say, did you mean to send this to me?

16:22I sell to sports moms.

16:23And so my son had an incident.

16:26And had said he wanted to quit. And so the email that I sent to them was, Hey, should I let Asher quit this sport?

16:34And I was telling them what happened.

16:35And, how I felt about, it was very heartfelt. It was very genuine. And I almost felt bad because so many people responded back.

16:43Like I didn't have the capacity to respond to everyone. And so I felt Oh gosh, that really seemed like a one to one email.

16:52So it's like, how do you balance having that connection with also having, the capacity to respond to 200 or 500 or a thousand.

17:02Kris DariaYeah, that's something definitely you know Maybe not every email you want to ask for reply.

17:06If you're getting that many and it's out of your capacity Like definitely follow that maybe one thing that I can recommend For this instance is if you feel like you're getting a lot of replies and it's like you can't answer everyone maybe direct them like I would love to hear your opinion.

17:21Leave a comment on my Instagram post or on my Facebook post or somewhere where they, you can capture those responses.

17:27And then in the next email, you can be like, thank you for sharing all your replies. I really touched my heart.

17:32That could be a way for you to manage that. But the act of just replying back to the email, I don't know if you know this, but it actually helps with your deliverability.

17:40So you do want to get replies back.

17:42Because when people reply back, Google, Yahoo, Hotmail, those inbox providers.

17:48They recognize that, Oh, Crystal is sending emails that people engage with.

17:51We're going to make sure that her emails land in the inbox because it's relevant to our customers.

17:56So the fact that they're replying back to you is going to help you with your deliverability and avoid the spam folder, really, over time.

18:04Crystal WaddellWell, that's a great insight.

18:06And especially with the changes that are coming up with email starting on February 1st.

18:13I thought maybe you could share some insight on what these new rules are going to mean for email and email

18:21Kris Dariadeliverability.

18:22Yeah, like I'm not an email deliverability expert, but I can definitely talk about, some of the things that are happening.

18:27Because not a lot of people are talking about it. Or are even aware.

18:30And starting February 1st, Google and Yahoo are going to be implementing more more stricter spam prevention measures.

18:37To make sure that their customers, their users are protected from spammers who send out spammy email.

18:43So it's not that it's not a big thing that we have to like panic and freak out about.

18:48But it's still something that we have to be aware so that we can prepare our business, similar to when.

18:53Instagram changes their algorithm, you just adjust, right?

18:56So just see it as that way.

18:57And it's the first time that Yahoo and Google are going to make these changes to their email algorithm rules in 20 years.

19:04So it is a big change.

19:06There are just a few practices that easy practices that we can put in place.

19:10Or that, you may already be doing.

19:11To start, preparing your business for that.

19:14For those of you who are just starting out with their business and starting out with sending emails.

19:17Sometimes they collect emails at a fair and then they send out emails from their own personal Gmail accounts, right?

19:22And they put all the emails in bcc.

19:24That's something you want to avoid doing moving forward.

19:27Avoid sending emails from your personal Hotmail or Gmail account.

19:30It's important that you start signing up for a professional domain like collagewood. com like yourbrand. com.

19:37And start sending out emails to your subscriber list using professional tools.

19:40Like, Klaviyo for example.

19:42And then also continue capturing people's explicit consent before emailing them.

19:47Because you don't want your emails being marked as spam, right?

19:50So you want to send out emails to people who agreed to receive your Marketing promotions.

19:55There are some technical things that are more on your email service provider side to be adjusted.

20:01So every email service provider, like MailChimp, Klaviyo, OmniSend. They have their own settings that they'll work around that.

20:07So for example, making sure that when people click unsubscribe, it's a one click to unsubscribe.

20:12No longer it's Enter your email address to unsubscribe or Make sure you save your preferences on these lists.

20:18Like you want to make sure that people Have to click only one time to unsubscribe.

20:23And it unsubscribes from everything and that's something that's more on the ESP's responsibility.

20:28You want to also make sure that you're cleaning out your list.

20:31Even before these changes came into place, I was always telling my clients clean out your list.

20:34Because over time you may have acquired, a thousand, five thousand people.

20:39But half of them stopped opening your emails.

20:41A lot of my clients don't realize that they have a lot of unengaged contacts on their list that no longer interact with their emails.

20:48So it's important that you clear them out.

20:50Because that's going to hurt your deliverability. If Google, Yahoo, Hotmail, they see that, Crystal is sending out emails.

20:56But only half of her subscribers are opening them, then we're going to put her into the spam folder.

21:01So you want to actually make sure you get rid of that dead weight, because not only will it save you on email costs, it's going to make sure that your sender reputation is maintained.

21:11And so yeah, there's different email technical things like having a branded domain.

21:15To better control your own sender reputation.

21:18There's some things that you need to adjust in your root domain settings.

21:21To make sure that You're preventing spammers from pretending that they're sending emails from you.

21:26So that's like a new Requirement that you'll need to make at your web hosting level.

21:30That i'm not, technically i'm not really super knowledgeable about that.

21:34But yeah, that is something you do have to do and I recommend just going to your esp's website to find the checklists.

21:40Or resources that will guide you in Implementing these changes so that way you're prepared.

21:45And there's one last resource that I recommend that everybody joins.

21:49It's this deliverability webinar and training from Cheryl Rerick.

21:52Shout out to her because she's another email marketing expert who really specializes in deliverability.

21:58More than I can ever cover this.

21:59So this is something that I think there's a free training I think that she provides.

22:03Where she delivers much more valuable insights and helpful resources around preparing your business for these changes to come.

22:10Yeah.

22:10Crystal WaddellWow. That is awesome. We'll definitely link to that. In the show notes.

22:14I was thinking about going back to the spam folder and avoiding the spam folder.

22:19I've heard that there's different words that you want to avoid using in your email.

22:23Is that true that there's certain words that kind of flag the system?

22:28Kris DariaYeah you really do want to avoid putting in your subject line certain words like free!

22:33Or, having all capitals.

22:35I can't remember from the top of my mind, but there's if you Google like spam words to avoid.

22:40For sure you're going to find a list of Words you want to avoid using in your subject line.

22:45Some of the things that I do recommend.

22:47A lot of clients when I start working with them, they spend a lot of time in canva designing all these pretty emails.

22:53But what I one thing that I like to say to my clients is pretty emails don't pay the bills.

22:57Because What really matters is that you have a combination, a melange of like images and text and links to give people the chance to interact with your email.

23:06Because nowadays a lot of people, they have inbox tools to prevent images from being generated when they open their emails.

23:14So if your content is in images, most likely people are not even going to be able to read your emails. They're going to be able, they're not going to be able to see the info or about that promotion or that new product.

23:24So it's important that you do have images, but that you add text blocks.

23:27In Klaviyo, you do have a lot of free email, free prebuilt email templates.

23:32That you can start off with to make sure that your emails are designed in that way.

23:36That way you prevent the spam folder and it makes your email look more mobile friendly.

23:41People can read it on their mobile device, which is what most people use.

23:44So those are some, some little tips there on how to design your emails.

23:48Crystal WaddellSo this seems like a very small thing, but if we're giving away a coupon or like a buy one, get one free or a free download or whatever.

23:58So you're saying do not put free download in the subject line when we're delivering it back to the person.

24:06Kris DariaYeah, there's different ways you can be creative with your subject lines.

24:09One of the things that I like to do and test.

24:11I've tested this out with my clients a lot. Is if you use the word this.

24:14In your subject lines, it'll tend to make people's curiosity and want them to open it up.

24:19So this will solve your problem. Or this is something you must have.

24:22Or this is something that Has helped our clients.

24:25Or this is something our clients are raving about.

24:28Things like, just seeing that in your inbox, it'll make you want to open it. And just to see what is this?

24:33So you can AB test that with your audience and see what helps and what works over time.

24:37Crystal WaddellOkay.

24:37So what about the people who actually sign up for your list.

24:41And you have, like their opt in information. And then they mark your email as spam?

24:46Kris DariaUnfortunately, that's not something you can control. The only thing that you can control is how you design your emails.

24:52Make your emails look like they come from a friend. Add links to your emails and get them to reply back to them, like I said before.

24:58Because that makes your emails more friendly and personal, and less spammy.

25:02It's also important to make sure that even moving forward that you're from email address is coming from your branded domain.

25:10Like I said not like at gmail or whatever.

25:12That they know who the email is coming from.

25:14Make sure your logo is at the top, you know.

25:16Make sure they know who it's coming from.

25:18Because that way there's less likely for them to mark your email as spam.

25:21When they know it's coming from someone familiar

25:23Crystal WaddellYeah, I think it's interesting how even bigger brands like facebook and amazon. Are often spoofed.

25:30I'm getting all sorts of, even just Facebook messenger messages from people who are like, your account is about to be shut down.

25:40Kris DariaOh my gosh. Yeah.

25:41Crystal WaddellYeah. And it's it'd been a new influx.

25:44I don't know if it's because of large language models or something, and now they're able to just send them out so much faster.

25:50I'm grateful that I have enough knowledge that it's look, that's not how meta would communicate with them about something like this.

25:58Kris DariaThey're very tricky. I've almost gotten tricked by one.

26:01But luckily it was somebody who hacked my friend's Instagram account and messaged me.

26:06So I thought a message was coming from my friend.

26:08This happens to some of my clients.

26:09They get hacked out of their meta or their Instagram account.

26:13And they can no longer use their Instagram account to reach their followers.

26:16So they rely on their email list. Thankfully they have their email list that they can rely on to reach their customers or else, they lost all their followers.

26:23What do you do? So this is why it's really important to, yes, grow your social media following to get that visibility.

26:29But at the same time, in parallel, keep on growing your email list.

26:32That email list is yours no matter where you go, so make sure that you grow your email list, keep it clean. So that way you're protected against, you have another, backup against these spammers, right? No matter how they attack you.

26:44Crystal WaddellExactly. And I think it's also important to remember that, like you said.

26:49It's not the number of people that you have on your email list.

26:53It's the number of people who actually want to hear from you. That you have on your email list.

26:57And having a bunch of people who don't actually want what you are selling anymore is not as helpful as a smaller number. That are actually going to open your email.

27:07So in terms of a percentage rate? Is there a good open rate or like some target numbers that we should shoot for?

27:15Is that still a

27:16Kris Dariathing?

27:16Yeah with open rate nowadays, it's less it's less. Exact accurate because of the changes.

27:23That I don't know if you Remember back in 2021. I think apple changed the way that they Mark emails as open. So if you're using apple mail, which is like 90 percent of the population. To use their emails They'll actually mark it as an open when the person didn't actually open.

27:39So Email, that's why email open rates tend to be less accurate as they did before.

27:44You want to at least go for a 30 40 percent open rate is what I tell my clients because lower than that.

27:51It's indicating that you have a low, a problem with your deliverability, or the quality of your list is not as good.

27:56And click rate, you want to get, I always aim for at least a 1 percent click rate, if not more.

28:01So that way, and you do this by adding You know, different ways for people to click on your emails, whether that be GIFs, animated GIFs text links, product listing links.

28:11These are easily added, you can easily do when you design your emails in Klaviyo.

28:15So yeah, and then unsubscribe rate you want to, Obviously have this as low as possible.

28:20But if you have a small list, it's really easy to like, when one person unsubscribes out of 10, that's like a 10 percent unsubscriber rate.

28:26Which is what I, a lot of my clients, they get worried about that.

28:29And I'm just like, you're still growing your list. It's okay. It's okay for people to unsubscribe.

28:33I try to actually try to see unsubscribers in a different light now, because like you said.

28:38These people, they're not going to want to buy from you anyway. So it's like their way of silently leaving your list without you knowing about it.

28:45So see it that way, yeah, absolutely.

28:47Crystal WaddellI used to feel so sad when somebody left my list.

28:50Like, oh, they don't want to be on my email list anymore.

28:53But then I'm like that number one, like you said, it's great because I'm building a list of people who actually want to buy.

28:58But second of all, like it's not a personal thing.

29:00People like I sell senior night gifts.

29:03They may not have a senior anymore.

29:05And maybe I haven't done a good enough job of marketing the other things that I could sell them later.

29:11So that shows itself as an opportunity. It's Hey maybe that could be a flow at some point.

29:17Of saying, Hey, now that you've bought your senior night gift, here's some things that you might want to check out for dorm decor or whatever, that

29:23Kris Dariaidea.

29:23Yeah. Another way that you can approach lowering your unsubscribed rates is by giving people the chance to temporarily opt out of receiving emails from you.

29:33So for example, during a big promotion where you're going to be sending more emails than usual.

29:38Or when you are, you know approaching mother's day and mother's day can be a sensitive topic for certain people.

29:43Give people the chance before you send out those emails.

29:46You can say hey heads up I'm going to be doing this sending more emails than usual around this period.

29:51If you don't want to receive these emails click here and you can temporarily be opted out from receiving them, but you'll still stay a subscriber and remain on my list for my weekly emails.

30:00For example giving the people to opt out temporarily, giving them that chance will allow you to prevent them from unsubscribing completely.

30:08So that could be another way to manage that.

30:09Crystal WaddellSo I'd heard of that. I didn't realize that Klaviyo had that capability.

30:14Kris DariaYou can. It's not, a straight out feature. You do need to use like click tags to capture their info.

30:20So if you put a link where that says click here and you'll be opted out.

30:24Anyone who clicks that link in your email will be automatically added a property in their profile.

30:29So you they can join a segment of people that you can exclude from choose your future email campaign.

30:35That's a bit more technical.

30:36But that's the beauty of klaviyo.

30:37Because you have these features that allow you to segment and be super specific.

30:42So for example, you can create a segment of people who purchase within the last 10 days.

30:47And exclude them from your future email campaigns over the next few weeks.

30:50Because they just purchased from you. Maybe they don't want to hear from Your next promotion because they just or else they'll get FOMO, right?

30:57They might come back and ask for a refund, right? so that could be a way for you to prevent those from happening and also because if you have a Automated post purchase sequence being sent out automatically after they purchase they would be receiving those emails anyway.

31:11You know segmenting features like that in Klaviyo is what makes it worth the while.

31:14Crystal WaddellYeah. And that's one thing I've really enjoyed about Klaviyo's platform in general.

31:18Is that, they'll send you a report too. And it's okay, this is how you're doing. And this is how you're doing compared to other people in your industry.

31:26And so there were benchmarks. And I think that's what the email is called like Klaviyo Benchmarks.

31:30Benchmarks. Yes. Yeah. And I really appreciate it because as a business owner that doesn't know anything about email.

31:36That was a way that I was able to help myself learn, and teach myself like, Oh, these are terms that I should be familiar with.

31:44And these are standards that I should be aiming for.

31:47And so that was really helpful in Klaviyo. And I didn't feel like I had ever experienced that with a different email service provider.

31:55Kris DariaYeah. And that's what I love about Klaviyo.

31:57Yes, those advanced prebuilt reporting features allows you to really dive into who your customers are and how they're engaging with your store.

32:04And how they're engaging with your email.

32:06So you can get a better understanding of your customers holistically.

32:09I feel like Klaviyo does a great job of that because they understand that their customers are e commerce business owners.

32:16So they need to know their revenue, their metrics front and center, right? So they do everything they can to make that easier for their customers.

32:23And as a small business, what I see with my clients is.

32:26When they don't go with a tool that allows them to grow as they grow their business, they feel limited at some point. And then once, once they feel limited, it then gets becomes harder to migrate their list onto an email service platform that will allow them to continue growing.

32:41So this is what I love about Klaviyo too.

32:43Is that it will, it's good for you as a small business owner and also as you grow into a bigger business.

32:48And build that bigger business and empire of yours. It allows you to not feel so limited in the features. Once you get to a certain point, it'll continue to grow with you.

32:57So that's also a good feature. Good to know. When you're looking out for an email service provider.

33:02Crystal WaddellAnd you may not know the answers to this question, but does Klaviyo integrate with advertising platforms like Facebook? Yes. So retarget people or something like that?

33:13Kris DariaI know with Meta it does integrate.

33:15It does have an integration with the audiences.

33:18So for example, you can create custom lookalike audiences based on customers you have in your Klaviyo account.

33:23That's something that you can do with Klaviyo too. Yeah.

33:26Crystal WaddellThat's awesome. Because that's something that I also have a goal for of 2024 is like really getting granular with my retargeting and for, people who visited certain pages, certain blog posts or whatever, and then, retargeting them on Facebook.

33:40I do that now with a product. And just like retargeting with actual product photos and product ads, but. I just created a new digital planning guide for senior night.

33:51And I want to do that as a retargeting ad on Facebook. So I'm like, this could

33:56Kris Dariabe cool.

33:57Yeah. And you can have those signups directly integrate and get added automatically to Klaviyo without you having to manually import them.

34:03So that's one thing, a good integration that Klaviyo has with Meta when you do retargeting signup ads.

34:09And I also recommend if you do that, I don't know how to do this exactly in Meta.

34:13But exclude people who are already on your email list, so you don't pay Meta for people that are already on your list.

34:18That's something that a lot of people forget to do. So don't pay Facebook for people that you already have on your list.

34:23Just make sure that you have that exclusion, right?

34:26Crystal WaddellYeah, that makes a lot of sense.

34:27And then one other thing I'm excited about exploring in the future is the reviews function that Klaviyo has.

34:33Unfortunately I've changed my website over the years.

34:37I started with GoDaddy.

34:38And then I went to Shopify.

34:41But within Shopify, switch my themes a couple of times, change my products around, change product names, all that type of stuff.

34:48So the Klaviyo ID that I had at one point is now for a product that either doesn't exist or that switched

34:55Kris Darianames.

34:55Crystal WaddellYeah. Yeah. So it's a mess when I'm trying to import the reviews.

35:00And Klaviyo's, actually this product did not receive this review. This review belongs to da da da, and I'm like, that product doesn't

35:08Kris Dariaeven exist anymore.

35:09Oh my gosh. Yeah.

35:10Crystal WaddellYeah. But one thing I'm excited about Klaviyo Reviews.

35:13Is that it integrates with Google and Google Reviews, which is so important.

35:18And that's a feature that stamped.Io requires you to pay like a hundred bucks a month for.

35:25And it's one of those things where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I got to get this like up and going as soon as possible because in the SEO world, Google reviews is everything.

35:34And it's mattering more and more every day that your Google business profile and all of your Google integrations align with what you've got going on your website.

35:43So I'm excited about

35:44Kris Dariathat opportunity.

35:45That's so good to know, especially like you said, SEO is even, it's, it integrates with Google and it just helps to boost your SEO.

35:52One thing that I love about Klaviyo is that when it introduces a new feature, it doesn't do it for just like only advanced tiers.

35:59Or smaller tiers or smaller brand owners can't do these, like when they introduce a feature.

36:03They introduce it for anyone who's willing to implement it.

36:07It's not just for more advanced users.

36:09Yes, it's an added cost, but anyone can have it. You don't have to pay an extreme amount of extra, monthly fees to have access to that feature.

36:17So that's something that I think I like about Klaviyo is that they treat everyone equally.

36:20And it just it's a more fair pricing in that way when you think about it.

36:24Crystal WaddellYeah, I really appreciate that.

36:25Because a company who's, turning over 20 to 30, 000 a month in revenue.

36:30They're going to be able to afford all the bells and whistles.

36:33But, a company that's making between 5 and 10, 000 a month in revenue.

36:38That's not the same budget.

36:40So yeah, I definitely appreciate that with Klayvio. I'm excited about the future.

36:45But I think that's pretty much all the questions that I have for you because you've given us so much. I can't wait to go back through and listen because I'm totally applying this to my own account. And I have this new segment that I'm doing of the podcast called follow through Fridays. So I'm going to pick a couple of things out of here to follow through with for myself and then share about it. Yeah.

37:06Kris DariaAwesome. I'm excited to hear the followup from this. That's really great and awesome that you're doing that.

37:11Crystal WaddellYeah.

37:12I was listening to some things on behavioral science.

37:15And we have the best intentions, right? We have the best intentions to learn something.

37:20And to do something, but unless we set a date and commit to doing it. We are much less likely to actually follow

37:27Kris Dariathrough.

37:28True.

37:29Yeah, I'm gonna have to try that. Yeah, that's so true. Because once we have all these goals, but then it's hard to prioritize.

37:34So until you specifically say, I'm going to implement this one thing.

37:38One thing that I've learned from reading this amazing book. It's called The One Thing by Kerry Keller.

37:43I don't know if you've ever read it before.

37:44What's one thing to help you prioritize? It's just asking this one simple question.

37:49What is one thing that I can do right now that will make everything else easier or unnecessary?

37:53And that's just been a guiding force for me.

37:55To help me know what is my next best step.

37:57Crystal WaddellAnd I've had the hardest time answering that question. Like one thing is for me. So the way that I modified it for myself was I'm only going to give myself a certain amount of time to accomplish whatever I think I need.

38:10That way I'm not spreading myself too thin all day.

38:13I'm like, no, my workday is from seven to 12.

38:16And after that, if I didn't get that one thing done, then that's on me.

38:20But I'm working towards that one thing.

38:22I just still haven't, I still haven't uncovered it for myself, which is crazy.

38:26Kris DariaYou'll hopefully over the year, over the next year, as you do the follow through Fridays, it's going to be interesting to see what sticks.

38:32That's gonna be good learnings for the future. Yeah.

38:35Crystal WaddellYeah, absolutely.

38:36So speaking of learning.

38:37If someone has learned from you today and they're on the other side of the airwaves and they're thinking, oh my gosh, I would love to learn more from Kris.

38:46Where would you send them?

38:47How can they find out more about you?

38:49Kris DariaYeah, sure. So I invite you to check out my website, KrisDaria. com.

38:54On there, you can download a bunch of free resources.

38:57There's a Klaviyo audit checklist that people can download for free.

39:01And by downloading that, you'll stay a subscriber into my email list.

39:06I send out a weekly newsletter with helpful email and Klaviyo tips.

39:09So that way we can keep in touch. Yeah. Directing to my email list, of course. Yeah.

39:13Crystal WaddellThat's smart. I love it. I love it. And I love it that you're one of those that like, do as I say and do as I do.

39:20So many of us business owners will often say do as I say, but not do as I do because Whatever it is why would we not do as we say?

39:29So I appreciate that about you.

39:30Walk the talk. Yeah, exactly. So thank you so much for being here.

39:35This was just so awesome to speak with you and learn even more about Klaviyo. Cause I love Klaviyo.

39:40Kris DariaI had a great time chatting with you too, Crystal. Thank you for inviting me.

39:43Crystal WaddellAll right, guys.

39:44We'll see you next time. Bye bye.