International SEO Strategy & Best Practices w/ Sarah Presch

[00:00:00] And one of the things as well, if you cater to, for example, Spanish speaking audiences, they will love you forever. If they like what you're doing, they'll recommend it to other people.

[00:00:08] And, you can get much more loyal audiences by actually catering to people than if you just ignored it. 

[00:00:15] Welcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show, the podcast dedicated to empathy driven brand building SEO. I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:32] Let's jump into another great episode. 

Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show!

[00:00:34] Welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show. I am so excited that you're here today with us on the podcast because I have a very special guest for you.

Meet Sarah Presh: A Journey Through SEO

[00:00:43] Her name is Sarah Presh. And she works for a company called Dragon Metrics, and she is going to be talking to us today all about international SEO.

[00:00:53] Sarah, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show Podcast. 

[00:00:58] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:59] I'm so excited to be here. 

[00:01:01] Yeah, so we can tell from your voice that you are probably not calling in from the United States. Can you tell us a little bit about, who you are and where you're from and just a little bit of your history in SEO? 

[00:01:14] Yeah, sure. So I live in the Czech Republic typical European.

[00:01:19] We actually lived in Dublin and Ireland up until kind of September last year and then made the to the Czech Republic. Just because. For family reasons. 

The Entrepreneurial Journey and Its Lessons

[00:01:27] I've been working in SEO now for 11 years. I started off doing working as like a head of SEO or sorry, head of marketing that encompassed SEO in my role. 

[00:01:37] Then ended up setting my, setting up my own SEO agency.

[00:01:41] And that did pretty well. Then had to have a break because of illness and stuff. 

[00:01:45] And then went back to be an employee. And I have to admit, I don't miss the entrepreneur side of things. 

[00:01:50] It gave me lots of experience, but it's so much better, just working for somebody else. 

[00:01:55] Yeah.

[00:01:56] There's definitely some advantages. Insurance and all those things that come with having a job that somebody else gets to take care of. And just also not the worry of, is this even going to 

[00:02:06] work? Oh 

[00:02:06] gosh, yeah. Like with us, me and my husband run the business together. So if a client decided that they were going to be late and not pay. So that we could pay the team members, one of us wouldn't take a salary.

[00:02:15] And then we realized that, then things are a little bit pants if the two of us aren't getting paid so we could pay everybody else. 

[00:02:21] Just because somebody in accounts forgot to post us a payment or something. 

[00:02:25] So doing it this way around is definitely a lot more kind of suitable for adulting when you have mortgages and stuff.

[00:02:31] It's interesting. I should have an episode about, real life entrepreneur horror stories, because that definitely sounds like top of the list, but it also says a lot about who you are as a person. 

[00:02:42] That, you guys would take that, upon yourselves rather than impact your employees.

[00:02:48] So I think that's pretty, pretty noble share there. 

[00:02:50] Oh, thank you. To me, it makes common sense to do that. But yeah. 

[00:02:54] There are some businesses is out there who aren't so ethically minded that I've come across, 

[00:02:59] yeah. 

[00:02:59] Okay, so you said you started out, it's like a marketing manager slash SEO manager.

[00:03:05] Can you just tell us a little bit about what that job entails like on a day to day? Just day to day schedule. 

[00:03:10] And even when you open your own business, what that looked like. 

[00:03:14] Oh my gosh, so that kind of role that I was in encompassed everything, I would say. 

[00:03:19] Not quite as much as when you open your own business, because then you add in accountant, lawyer, HR person into that.

[00:03:25] But like from a marketing point of view, if you were the only marketing manager. 

[00:03:29] Or you went ahead of marketing for certain companies, you'd have to write blog posts. You'd have to do the social media. You'd have to deal with the SEO. You'd have to manage the PPC. So everything that kind of.

[00:03:40] Should be broken up into lots of different roles and is in bigger companies. 

[00:03:43] It falls on you within the smaller companies to do that. But I like that because it gives you a well rounded view of all of these different areas of marketing. 

[00:03:52] Yeah. And it's very similar to being an entrepreneur too, for the most part. 

[00:03:56] Until you can hire a team, you are wearing all of those hats for sure.

[00:04:01] So because you got to do all those different things, is that how you found your. In SEO above all other practices within digital marketing? 

[00:04:10] Yeah, so I was doing very much a general role. Then I met my husband. And he was an SEO at the time. So he got me hooked onto the SEO side of things. 

[00:04:20] And then it was quite a funny story, but we were both working for companies at the same time. And we realized that the SEO person that they were outsourcing the SEO to was a bit of a, I'd say this nicely, they weren't doing their job properly and ripping off the company. 

[00:04:33] So we sat down one day at the dinner table and we were like, why don't we just set up our own company? 

[00:04:38] And that's what we did. 

[00:04:40] Did you go after your previous company as a client? 

[00:04:44] They actually when I told them that I wanted to leave and set up my own business, they were like, we're coming with you.

[00:04:49] So I didn't even have to, tell them anything. They were just like, yep, we're going to support you in this every step of the way. 

[00:04:54] So it was really nice of them. 

[00:04:56] Oh, my goodness. That's amazing. 

[00:04:58] Yeah. 

[00:04:59] Wow. There's nothing like starting your own business and having your first client ready to go.

[00:05:03] Definitely. 

[00:05:04] Definitely. 

[00:05:05] Okay. 

Diving Into the World of International SEO

[00:05:05] So you are going to talk to us about international SEO. 

[00:05:09] And That I think is going to, send a bit of a chill up the spine of people who are just learning about regular SEO. 

[00:05:17] What is the difference between international SEO and just like your regular SEO that you do for wherever you live?

Understanding the Nuances of International SEO

[00:05:26] Okay, so this is where it can be a little bit complicated because the foundations of SEO are the same all around the world. 

[00:05:33] You've got to have a site nice and healthy, you've got to do all of your research, you've got to, have those foundations there. But when it comes to international SEO, There's just extra that you have to do on top of that. 

[00:05:42] So you have to manage, say, the multilingual kind of functions of the website, so things like the hreflang tags. 

[00:05:50] Your site setup. Things like that. 

[00:05:52] The main choices, you know. and then on top of that, I think, which I think is the most complex, is, actually localizing it your SEO to different audiences. 

[00:06:02] Because most people seem to think that, I know, I have my blog in English, it works really well.

[00:06:07] I'm just going to translate that. Pop it on a, say, German website, and, boom, you're ready to go. 

[00:06:11] But what people often forget is people in different countries search very differently So you've got the likes of say germans who like really specific long tail keywords compared to english speakers. 

[00:06:22] So their search terms are not going to add up or work really for the blog posts that you do in english. 

[00:06:29] They culturally, for example like more in depth content rather than just you know top of the level kind of blog posts in English.

[00:06:36] Then you've got like completely different cultures all around the world. They like completely different things. 

[00:06:42] And then just to add something on top of that, you've got the countries, for example, like China or Korea, or so even Japan. Where they use totally different search engines. 

[00:06:50] So using your Google knowledge is not going to work because they have completely different ranking factors and things like that.

The Practical Side of International SEO

[00:06:55] So how did someone know if they need to do international SEO? 

[00:07:00] Let me give you an example here. 

[00:07:01] I recently bought a shopify theme from someone. 

[00:07:05] And the theme came built in with a default, an international and a U. S. 

[00:07:12] And I had never seen that before, because most shopify themes are just a default theme.

[00:07:17] But I wasn't, I'm still a little bit confused on what exactly I should do with that. 

[00:07:22] And like how to know when it's time to do any kind of international SEO. 

[00:07:28] And how to know, okay, which countries, which languages, that type of thing. 

[00:07:33] Yeah, so I would normally say if you're selling in your home country and you're doing one just doing English in the U. S. and you're absolutely fine with normal SEO. 

[00:07:40] The thing that you have to think about international SEO is when you start expanding. 

[00:07:44] So like even between the U. S. and Canada, The "Englishes" are going to be slightly different. 

[00:07:50] So you have to localize that especially when it comes to search terms. 

[00:07:54] One example that I always like to give is people lump the UK and Ireland into one. 

[00:07:59] But actually the if like business stuff, it's okay. 

[00:08:03] But if you're b to c we use different words for different things. 

[00:08:06] So like instead of saying sneakers in the uk are trainers. Sneakers in ireland are runners. 

[00:08:11] So if you have a shoe shop.

[00:08:13] And you go out with trainers like for the uk people are not going to be searching for them. 

[00:08:17] So people aren't going to find your website, so There's a language thing.

[00:08:21] There's a country thing. And again, even if you're just doing seo domestically in the US say that you're doing I don't know, like an e shop or something that's in Spanish. To target Spanish speakers in the U. S. 

[00:08:31] Then you need to start thinking about international SEO as well because of the different language.

[00:08:35] Yeah, and that's been the other interaction that I've had with this possibility. 

[00:08:40] One of my clients, one of the search terms, or not one of them, but like more than one now. Has come up in Spanish. 

[00:08:47] And so in that situation, do you recommend like duplicating the whole site? And translating it? 

[00:08:54] If someone is searching for what you sell in Spanish, should you have an English version of the content on the page and then a Spanish version of the content? 

[00:09:03] Or should you have two separate pages or what are some of the best practices for something like that?

[00:09:08] Like within the U S, 

[00:09:10] even?

[00:09:10] Yes, I think first of all, international SEO multilingual SEO is not something that you can do on the cheap. 

[00:09:16] So you need to research does it make sense, catering to a spanish speaking audience? 

[00:09:20] If you have Lots of spanish speakers coming to your website, and lots of your current customers are spanish speakers. 

[00:09:25] Then yes, definitely go for it.

[00:09:27] If it's just like a couple and a handful, you probably don't need to. 

[00:09:31] But best practice wise like google does not like it when you mix Languages on a page. So basically, my best practice would be, well best practices in general, not just mine. 

[00:09:41] Would be to have two different websites. They can be on the same domain, but for example have your website. com forward slash es. 

[00:09:50] And then what else you can do as well is then have your Spanish speaking content on that domain. That you choose. 

[00:09:56] And this is where the way that I suggest things is probably different to the way that some people do because there's lots of pressure.

[00:10:03] People always say you have to translate the whole of your website. 

[00:10:06] I don't think that's right. Because Spanish speakers may not be looking for certain products. Or they may not be looking for something. 

[00:10:13] So this is where things like Dragon Metrics come in. And using your data, research what sort of things that your Spanish speaking audience is searching for, and then translate those bits.

[00:10:22] Or if there's bits in Spanish, but you don't have an English. Create content for it. 

[00:10:27] Because, you're going to have different holidays, different tastes, different things that show up in Spanish keywords. So I would say do it a bit like 

[00:10:36] that.

[00:10:36] Okay. So 

[00:10:37] when you have different websites, like this was something that Shopify also offered was to, make your website available in different markets. 

[00:10:45] And so they would set up a, forward slash En, forward slash CA, and I think maybe even France I had forward slash FR maybe.

[00:10:55] But then in, in a search tool it was showing me and it wasn't Dragon Metrics, I can't remember exactly which one it was, but it was telling me that I had duplicate pages. 

[00:11:06] And so is that okay? In terms of the search engine, it's Google realizing that, okay, I don't have duplicate pages or are they considered duplicate content?

[00:11:16] And then Google just picks which one based on what it thinks is best.

[00:11:20] If it's in different languages and it shouldn't be classed as duplicate content. 

[00:11:24] And what you can do is you can have your hreflang language set up for say, French on your French website. 

[00:11:31] Pointing to And telling Google that this is a corresponding page via English website and stuff. 

[00:11:36] So as long as you set it up correctly, it's absolutely fine. 

[00:11:40] The duplicate content issue can come in if for example, you have exactly the same content in English.

[00:11:46] And then you're using exactly the same content in English again on your website a different page or something like that.

[00:11:52] Yeah, so that's a good thing to know because I don't know if they create those websites in English. But for a French audience. 

[00:12:00] Versus actually having some sort of translation there. So that's a good question that I need to ask. And then also, follow up with the Shopify people. 

[00:12:09] Because I'm not a developer. 

[00:12:10] Editing that code goes a little bit beyond the scope of what I know how to do.

[00:12:15] Okay. 

Exploring Website Builders and Best Practices for International SEO

[00:12:15] What about other website builders? Is there an ideal website builder that facilitates international SEO the best? I

[00:12:24] wouldn't say so. It really depends on the size of your website. 

[00:12:28] If you're just starting off, you can use WordPress and then use multilingual plugins. 

[00:12:32] For example, W, WPMI, WMPI.

[00:12:35] I haven't used that for ages. So the name of the plugin is the slip my mind or poly langs. That's another one. But again. 

[00:12:42] Those plugins are good, they do help. 

[00:12:44] But if you can just find a way to do it more manually, it works a bit different. And one thing that you should never do is use automatic translations on your website. 

[00:12:55] Because A, they sound really pants, and B, as well, they just You know, when you're talking about A. I. content and helpful content and that kind of thing, that's what machine translation will do for your website. 

[00:13:07] Stay clear.

[00:13:08] So that, so if a website is built for the U. S., And it's not translated at all, but someone from Germany finds it. 

[00:13:17] Does it show up the same, or what does it look 

[00:13:19] like? 

[00:13:20] Yeah, so it'll show up like they're just landing on your American website. Unless you have any automatic, redirects or things like that on your website.

[00:13:29] If people from Germany are landing on your website in the U. S., again. Maybe you can sell to them. 

[00:13:34] If you ship to Germany and stuff like that, there's, nothing wrong with that. But if you genuinely wanted to target Germans in Germany and have an online presence in Germany, then you would need a German website.

[00:13:45] Is there a way to exclude foreign audiences from viewing your website? Say you, you do not ship internationally or you don't ship to certain countries. Is it possible to exclude them?

[00:13:57] You can do, but I don't recommend it. 

[00:14:00] It's like, you don't know if a German person is looking for a present for somebody in the US. 

[00:14:03] But say that auntie who lives in America or the friend who lives in America So I would just say leave it and just make it very clear that you know You don't ship to Germany.

Navigating International Shopping and Shipping Challenges

[00:14:12] Yeah, that was the interesting situation that happened to me the other day because I was searching for a gift for someone in the UK.

[00:14:19] From my own Etsy account in America. And so that was a little bit of a challenge, like from the shipping perspective, because when I first logged in, I tried to filter it by the UK.

[00:14:30] And so I thought I'd filter it by the UK. 

[00:14:32] But still American products were coming up maybe because I was searching in America. 

[00:14:36] And then when I went to check out, it was like, we don't ship to the UK. And I'm thinking, I thought I covered this at the beginning. But I guess I didn't. 

[00:14:42] Oh gosh, I've had that before as well.

[00:14:44] Like trying to get presents for friends back in Ireland. And you're like, please just let me ship to Ireland. I'm not looking to ship it to the Czech Republic. Please don't redirect. 

[00:14:54] So if you're from Etsy and you're listening there's a slight issue with your international UX there. It's not lining up quite right.

[00:15:01] And then another thing that happened was a friend sent me a gift card from Australia. 

[00:15:07] But it was an Amazon gift card from Australia. And so when I went to redeem it, I had to log in on the Australian side. 

[00:15:15] So it was like, they were two different websites and not connected.

[00:15:19] So I just, I found that really interesting. Cause when you're always used to just shopping on Amazon and not having any kind of hiccup I was like, Oh, I'm not in Australia. How do I get back to the United States? 

[00:15:29] Oh, yeah, no, I've had that happen before as well. 

[00:15:31] That people have sent us Amazon gift vouchers and they haven't realized that the Amazon that we use in the Czech Republic, we have to use a German one.

[00:15:38] So they have to buy us a German gift voucher. 

[00:15:41] Which nobody would ever think of doing. So like, why would you need a German gift voucher for somebody in the Czech Republic? 

[00:15:46] Yeah. That's so interesting.

[00:15:48] And the world is shrinking. And because we're building these relationships internationally, now we're finally, encountering these problems. 

[00:15:56] They're probably problems that haven't happened very often because there hasn't been the need historically. To make these kinds of transactional changes. 

[00:16:06] So good for us.

[00:16:07] So good for us for making friends across the oceans and stuff 

[00:16:10] like that. 

[00:16:10] Exactly. Exactly. 

[00:16:13] I also noticed a term called localization and having a localization strategy. 

[00:16:18] Is that what you were talking about with the sneakers and the runners? And what I can't remember what the other one was 

[00:16:25] Yeah so basically localization is I was going to say localizing your website, but that doesn't help whatsoever as an explanation.

[00:16:34] But basically, it's like making sure that it's geared up for different cultures and languages. 

Adapting Content for Global Markets

[00:16:39] So instead of just looking at languages, it looks at different things like, say, pictures. 

[00:16:44] Because say you're targeting a Muslim country, having somebody posing in a bikini could actually be quite offensive to them.

[00:16:51] So you have to adapt your pictures as well. And show local people doing local things so that it resonates with people.

[00:16:58] Sorting out things like currencies and shipping for a local audience. 

[00:17:02] And just making sure that, it's geared up to that particular culture rather than somewhere else.

Exploring Global Search Engines Beyond Google

[00:17:07] And you mentioned that there's different search engines, not just Google. It's who would have thought? 

[00:17:13] Can you tell us about these other search engines? Because I've seen one of them. I don't know if it's Baidu or Baidu. 

[00:17:19] But it shows up in my Google search console sometimes. 

[00:17:22] Yes, Baidu is the main search engine in China.

[00:17:26] And when I was working as an international SEO consultant, this is something I would see all the time. The in house SEOs or, SEO agencies would be like, I've been optimizing for China, but it doesn't work. Why doesn't it work? 

[00:17:38] And I was like, so you optimizing for Baidu? And they're like, no, Google.

[00:17:41] And I was like Chinese people don't use Google. They use Baidu. And then they use a whole load of different other things to search. 

[00:17:48] Not just on a search engine, but like social media is massive out there. So they actually do lots of best searching on social media and things like that. 

[00:17:56] Yeah, going ahead with Google in China doesn't really work.

[00:17:59] So there's Baidu, and then what, didn't you mention another one? Is there another kind of prevalently or highly used search engine besides Baidu that's not Google? 

[00:18:10] Yeah, so in China they have quite a few. So you have things like Baidu, 360 and a couple of other ones. 

[00:18:16] In Korea, they use Google and they also use a search engine called Naver as well.

[00:18:22] In Japan, they use, for example, Yahoo Japan is still really big. 

[00:18:26] Whereas like we in the West would not use Yahoo for doing things, whereas they use a mix of Yahoo and Google. 

[00:18:32] In Russia, you've got Yandex. And then you've got the issue of Bing versus Google everywhere. 

[00:18:38] And even in the Czech Republic, we have our own search engine called Cznam dot cz.

[00:18:44] Wow. Do more people use it than Google? 

[00:18:48] They used to. 

[00:18:48] I wouldn't say that it's used by more people than google. Because google definitely has the majority market share in the czech republic 

[00:18:55] Now it's only used by a certain demographic and that demographic being, say people kind of 50 plus. 

[00:19:00] Like, If there were grandparents looking for Christmas presents for their grandkids they will use SysNam to do their searches.

[00:19:06] So if you're targeting, for example, like retired people or grandparents looking for presents for their grandkids and stuff like that, SysNam is the place to be.

[00:19:16] if you're targeting the general public, Google is absolutely enough.

[00:19:19] So one thing I'd heard about at some point in the last year was the next hundred billion users of the internet or something like that.

[00:19:27] What does that mean for someone who wants to get in front of that next 100 billion users. Is there a strategy for that? Or do you have any thoughts or opinions on, SEO for that group? 

[00:19:40] Yes. Yes. 

The Rise of Mobile-First Users in Emerging Markets

[00:19:41] So when it comes to the latest internet users or people in say up and coming countries.

[00:19:46] One thing you need to realize is that they are, they're skipping the desktop stage completely. So you have people, for example, in China in say, more rural regions. 

[00:19:55] Who are going straight to smartphones. You have people in different countries in Africa, say in for example like Nigeria. Who only have smartphones.

[00:20:03] So they completely skip the desktop stage. And you have to be optimizing for mobile first if you want to target these people, 'cause this is where they are. This is the sort of content that they're, looking at. 

Leveraging Social Media for International SEO

[00:20:13] And then what about like social media? You mentioned that a lot of people in China use social media as their search engine of choice.

[00:20:22] Is that something that, we should be really looking at to optimize as well for international audiences? 

[00:20:28] It really depends on the country, but using China as an example. 

[00:20:32] So Social media in China is more than just a social media that we know it here. They have for example like an app WeChat. 

[00:20:40] And to say that it's like Facebook is a complete understatement because people use WeChat for Paying their bills.

[00:20:45] They have wallets on there. Stuff like that. They can order taxis through we chat. 

[00:20:49] They can pay their electricity bills through it. They can literally do everything via we chat. 

[00:20:55] So for app users, it's like an ecosystem. 

[00:20:58] And when it comes to things like e commerce instead of just having, normal fashion shows that people upload to Facebook, and then you look at it, click on the link and go and buy the product. 

[00:21:06] They have things called see now, buy now, where people are doing the live fashion show, there's going to be a link for the product that's actually on the catwalk right now.

[00:21:13] You click it and you buy it. So being able to do all of these sort of things and like allowing people to pay through WeChat. 

[00:21:20] Rather than, having to give credit card details and do things like we used to is super, super important. 

[00:21:25] And that's why people search through these tools, because it's just got everything.

[00:21:30] If you look at other countries, for example say some of the African countries. 

[00:21:34] They absolutely love social media. So like Instagram is really big. Video content is much bigger there than it is elsewhere in the world. So again, if you want to start catering to these audiences, you need to go where they are. 

[00:21:47] And look at, doing more of that kind of content.

[00:21:50] Wow. 

Navigating E-commerce and Social Media Shopping

[00:21:51] And that, I guess that kind of makes sense in house that, some of the social media platforms are doing that here in the U S. 

[00:21:57] Because, Facebook and Instagram and even Tik TOK, they've all incorporated their shops so that you can shop directly within the platform. 

[00:22:05] Now, I have not taken advantage of that for the most part. 

[00:22:09] but An amazing opportunity for everybody. 

[00:22:12] Oh, yeah, totally. If you can get your products in front of people in these certain countries, which have massive populations, it's going to do wonders for your business. 

[00:22:20] Yeah. 

Understanding Geo-Targeting and Its Challenges

[00:22:21] So what is geo targeting and how does it work? 

[00:22:24] So geo targeting is where you target people in a certain location. 

[00:22:28] If I'm going to be honest when I think of geo targeting, I always think of those horrible geo redirects. I'll give you an example.

[00:22:34] So my husband, he's Irish. He doesn't speak a word of Czech. He goes on Microsoft's website. 

[00:22:39] I get a call, Sarah, can you come and help me please? It's all in Czech. So I wander over there. 

[00:22:44] We can't find a way to go back to the English websites. And it's the biggest pain. Because I have to help him to his whole purchase.

[00:22:52] And it was like, just because I'm in this country doesn't guarantee that I speak this language. 

[00:22:56] What if I'm on holiday or what if I'm here? And actually there's no rules and laws in the EU that, for example, you're not allowed to redirect somebody to a different part of your website, based on where they're from.

[00:23:08] So like I, as a Czech, I'm legally allowed to buy in Austria. 

[00:23:12] And the Austrian website is not allowed to block me from buying in Austria, just because I'm in the Czech Republic. 

[00:23:18] It's cheaper in Austria. 

[00:23:21] So there's loads of different legal considerations you need to think about as well when it comes to things like geo targeting, geo redirecting and things like that. 

[00:23:30] But for the user experience, I think.

[00:23:32] Have your flags visible. 

[00:23:34] Again, but be careful with the flags because if you want to target Ireland and not the UK having a UK flag is going to offend people. 

[00:23:41] Because of history and stuff like that. So maybe just have the languages without the flags.

[00:23:46] And allow people to choose where they want to buy and where they want to shop.

[00:23:49] Because you've got poor wifeys like me who are so fed up of having to go and, look through the different language versions. 

[00:23:56] Wow, so many, gosh, this is like a goldmine of information for anybody in user experience design and international website design and implementation. Take notes, people. 

[00:24:08] But people are probably going to be like by the end of this.

Finding the Right Expertise for International SEO

[00:24:10] I'm wondering is there any kind of checklist for someone who's trying to do this themself? 

[00:24:16] Or, I think I heard you say earlier, this is Probably not something you want to try and do yourself. You want to find someone. 

[00:24:22] So even like a checklist to how to vet someone to help you with it, like where do you find a capable person to do this?

[00:24:30] Oh gosh, again this is another rabbit hole that you could go into. 

[00:24:33] Because, lots of people go to translation agencies to do it. 

[00:24:36] They're not very well versed in like seo even though they think they are. 

[00:24:40] So. That's going to be difficult. 

[00:24:42] I would say what you need to do is find somebody who's like a seo consultant who does international stuff. 

[00:24:49] Who can help you with all of this kind of thing or somebody who deals specifically in like digital Localization that sort of thing.

[00:24:56] There's not too many of us out there. 

[00:24:59] But there are people that you can find, especially if you look on LinkedIn and places. 

[00:25:03] Or if you have a specific country in mind, my top tip would be to say, get an SEO expert or a digital marketing expert in China who actually understands China. 

[00:25:13] Who can help you with that because they live, breathe and, experience all of this, these different things every day.

[00:25:18] And they will think of things that you don't.

[00:25:20] That is awesome. That's a great tip. Can a tool like google search console help with international seo in any way?

[00:25:27] yeah, it can do in a way because you can get for example, take a look at your keywords and break it down into different countries.

[00:25:34] Apologies if this sounds a bit like a shameless plug for Dragon Metrics. 

[00:25:37] But when I was an international seo consultant, Dragon Metrics was my go to tool of choice because it covered all of the different search engines. 

[00:25:44] You can get data in all of the different languages and not all seo tools are created equally when it comes to that. 

[00:25:51] So again, You need to be asking people in different countries or in different markets.

[00:25:55] Does this seo tool work for you? 

[00:25:58] Because I've had it before where people are like, you must use "X" tool. 

[00:26:01] And I was like, but the database is rubbish for Czech. And I can't find any decent keywords here. 

[00:26:06] So again, that's another good point. 

[00:26:08] Okay. That's a great a great segue into Dragon Metrics and just talking about it. 

[00:26:12] And it's not no shameless plug at all because it's a wonderful product. 

[00:26:16] And maybe you could just tell us a little bit about it and who it's for and where people can get it. 

[00:26:22] Because some people who are listening may not have heard of Dragon Metrics before.

[00:26:26] Yeah. So Dragon Metrics is an all in one SEO platform. 

[00:26:30] So we're typical SEO software. We do a little bit of everything. 

[00:26:34] So we do all of the kind of things like keyword research You can look at your site health. We do rankings. We do reporting. 

[00:26:40] All of the things like that all of everything you need for your seo campaigns. 

[00:26:44] But I can say that we're probably the only tool that's actually geared up for global marketers.

[00:26:48] So we cater to 10 different search engines. 

[00:26:52] So you can check your rankings on all of these different search engines. 

[00:26:56] And also when it comes to research as well, I've tested out the database across different languages from when I was an international SEO consultant. 

[00:27:03] So that if, for example, you're going for Czech. less common languages. 

[00:27:09] At least, that you'll get decent data for that.

[00:27:11] So 

Legal Considerations in International SEO

[00:27:12] I'm wondering about like the legal concerns, because it's one thing when you live in a country, you're familiar with your own laws, but with GDPR and everything in the EU. 

[00:27:22] It's like, how can you make sure that you're doing it right in another country? Not only do you need that SEO person, but do you need a lawyer from the other country as well?

[00:27:32] Or what do you think? 

[00:27:33] It's really tough. 

[00:27:35] Because again, I do not envy anybody from the US who has to suddenly go and navigate GDPR if they want to go into Europe. 

[00:27:41] Because like us Europeans, we have trouble dealing with it, a little bit. 

[00:27:46] I wouldn't say you have to go quite so far as getting a lawyer in every single country that you want to expand in.

[00:27:51] Don't worry about that. But again, Getting somebody who's used to all of these different markets is going to be really helpful. 

[00:27:58] Because they'll be able to tell you all of these little kind of I wouldn't say issues or problems, but they'll be able to say all of the little quirks about the markets.

[00:28:05] Cause like in China, for example, you're not allowed to write copy that claims you're the best at something, and have that on your website. 

[00:28:12] So really? Yeah. So like little things like that. 

[00:28:17] You just need to speak to somebody who can help you. 

[00:28:20] So are you allowed to say you're the worst? How can you differentiate yourself in that situation?

[00:28:28] You're like, it's you're one of the top, or ...?

[00:28:30] ... 

[00:28:30] yeah. So you talk about how good you are, but you wouldn't say we are the best. 

[00:28:34] Gosh, that's so interesting. Okay. 

Addressing Specific International Market Queries

[00:28:36] I'm getting a lot of these visitors from France, and I'm not sure what to do about it because they're reading my content and.

[00:28:45] I, my, my content on my website is centered mainly around athletes and gifts for athletes. 

[00:28:51] Because that's what I sell. And so I'm not quite sure how to deal with that. They are my leading country right now in December. 

[00:28:59] Which is like the most interesting thing. Yes. So I'm like, I'm doing something right for France, but at the same time, I'm not sure it's right for My business. 

[00:29:07] So I was wondering what you thought of that.

[00:29:09] That's a tough one are they buying are they converting or are they dropping off anywhere or-

[00:29:14] just reading things 

[00:29:15] Okay. 

[00:29:16] So, I think when it comes to things like that this is where you need to do something a bit like an audit or Go and take a deeper look because you could find that They're coming, they're starting the starting to purchase and then they drop off somewhere and that could be because of the currency, because of the shipping, because then they realize that you're in the US. 

[00:29:32] Or something like that.

[00:29:33] If there's loads of people from France and it makes financial sense doing it. Maybe then it's the time to think about having, a French site. 

[00:29:41] For you, it's a little bit difficult because you make all your products yourself, but if you weren't in that situation where you can, supply your products in France or somewhere, Do that audit and then think about it.

[00:29:53] That's a really interesting idea because actually through Amazon, I probably could. 

[00:29:58] Because Amazon has fulfillment in other countries. 

[00:30:02] So, that's a good one. I think maybe I might look into that because I do wooden numbers and they could be stored fairly easily over there. 

[00:30:11] Just as they are here.

[00:30:12] Wow. 

Concluding Thoughts on International SEO

[00:30:13] So is there anything else that you want to share with us about Dragon Metrics? 

[00:30:17] Or main takeaways for international SEO? 

[00:30:21] Like any considerations or final thoughts? 

[00:30:24] I think main takeaways. 

[00:30:26] Don't be scared. I know a lot of the stuff that I said today does probably sound Quite scary. It doesn't have to be. 

[00:30:32] Just make sure that you find somebody who can help you who you can trust. 

[00:30:35] And if anybody, you know has any questions about any specific markets, they can reach out to me. Via linkedin or whatever. 

[00:30:41] And i'll be happy to point them in the direction or recommend somebody that could help them. 

[00:30:45] And just you know be open minded about it. And be willing to learn. 

[00:30:49] Because One of the biggest barriers I see. 

[00:30:52] Is people going in with this kind of mindset of, it's like this in my home country, I want it to be like this there. 

[00:30:58] And it is going to be like that. 

[00:30:59] And you have to be like, hang on a minute, no.

[00:31:01] This is their cultural preferences. They want to, have this kind of content. 

[00:31:05] And that's when you start having trouble. 

[00:31:07] And just remember that some things that might seem innocent, like colors. 

[00:31:12] Can sometimes actually cause Issues with things. In certain different countries. 

[00:31:18] So just be open minded when it comes to things like that and trust somebody who's actually in country. 

[00:31:23] If they tell you don't use that color in this country. Because lots of big brands make that mistake and it doesn't end well.

[00:31:30] Wow, that is such great insight, so amazing. 

[00:31:34] Okay I'll definitely be in touch with more questions. I know that there's other things that are going to spring up once I listen to this again, because so much of what you said was new to me. 

[00:31:43] And like I said, it's a beautiful thing that the world is getting smaller, but it's also something that I don't think businesses think about a lot, especially local businesses or businesses who are used to just doing business in one country. 

[00:31:56] It's wait, your service or product might actually be a good fit for someone somewhere else as well. So thank you for sharing all of this with us today. 

[00:32:05] Oh, you're welcome.

[00:32:06] Thanks so much for having me. 

[00:32:07] And I will drop all of Sarah's information in the show notes so you can connect with her. 

[00:32:12] If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe on the podcast. 

[00:32:16] And share it with a friend so that we can get this information out to more and more people and grow the podcast.

[00:32:22] So thank you so much for listening and I will catch you next time. 

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