[00:00:00] that was another big kind of light bulb moment to me when I started my Etsy shop of, Oh, I could, I was selling like the feminist tattoo niche. Where people are buying one for themselves or a gift. 

[00:00:08] But the bachelorette tattoo niche that I was selling in. You'd buy 15 or 20.

[00:00:12] So I'm like, Oh, this is good. 

[00:00:13] People that are buying group gifts on Etsy. That's a good target customer. So I've been pursuing that too. 

[00:00:18] Welcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show, the podcast dedicated to empathy driven brand building SEO. I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:35] Let's jump into another great episode. 

Welcome to the World of Digital Products and Etsy

[00:00:37] Welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show podcast.

[00:00:40] I am here with Julie Berninger. 

[00:00:43] And I'm so excited because we're going to talk about all things digital products and Etsy. 

[00:00:47] So two big things that, you know, not only do I use, but I'm also for 2024 trying to expand the products that I offer into the digital product space. So Julie, I'm so excited that you're here today.

[00:01:00] So excited to learn from you. Thanks for coming 

[00:01:02] on. Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:04] Yay. 

Julie's Journey: From Corporate to Etsy Success

[00:01:04] So we talked a little bit about like your journey and I was hoping you could just, summarize it for the person on the other side of the headphones. 

[00:01:12] And just explain like how you got into selling digital products on Etsy and what your business looked like when you started versus what it looks like 

[00:01:21] now.

[00:01:21] Sure. So I'm a mom of two that lives in the Boston area. 

[00:01:25] And I've been in online business for about a decade now, but I was running a parallel life. 

[00:01:30] Where I was trying to work in tech and move up the corporate ladder there. I always wanted to retire early. 

[00:01:36] And by always, I mean, I just stumbled upon a blog, maybe a couple of years after starting work.

[00:01:41] And I heard about people who retired in their thirties and I said, Oh, why am I working? In the nine to five not having free time to pursue my passions. I wanted to travel I want to do all these things. 

[00:01:50] Now that I have kids. I'm like, oh, I don't have any time Like even though maybe I have some semblance of financial independence.

[00:01:55] I don't have time to go anywhere I can't leave my house. But at the time I was thinking all like i'm so envious of these people So that's where it all started. 

[00:02:03] And I had a blog about personal finance millennial boss. I had a podcast called fire drill. 

[00:02:08] That was interviewing people who would achieve financial independence at a really young age.

[00:02:13] And through that, I was side hustling. So one of my side hustles was Etsy and I loved it. 

[00:02:19] I was selling in the bachelorette party space, but I switched from physical products to digital products pretty soon. 

[00:02:25] And that became my sort of niche in the personal finance world. 

[00:02:29] And I ran a couple masterminds and then that turned into an online course.

[00:02:33] That has turned into gold city ventures, which is my main business. And we've helped over 15, 000 students start Etsy printable businesses as a side 

[00:02:41] hustle. 

[00:02:41] That is so amazing. And I just have to give you props for just recognizing the value and the power of digital products over physical products. 

[00:02:51] Because it wasn't until our paths crossed a few months ago that I really started to think about.

[00:02:58] How I wanted my own life to look. 

[00:03:00] In the fact that, wow, if I could find digital products to sell, or create digital products to sell, that would really empower other people. 

[00:03:09] That would free me up to do, all the things in every day that I wanted to do versus having to physically create it.

[00:03:16] So kudos to you for figuring that out early. 

[00:03:19] Thanks. Yeah. Lately I've been all about scaling because I think also being a busy mom, I get overwhelmed easily with everything going on. And then I just have to remind myself, I don't have to do it all myself. I just have to outsource and I have to delegate.

[00:03:31] And that has been the number one key, even before I had kids, of how I did this all at the same time. It's just finding a business partner. A lot of people go on their own or. Finding contractors to work with me. 

[00:03:44] Being willing to give them some of the profits of the business so that we could grow That we've been able to scale and things like that whether you're selling digital products or whether you're hiring contractors. 

[00:03:53] Those are all the smart things to do in business so that you can Multiply yourself.

The Power of Partnerships in Business

[00:03:57] So we're here to talk about Etsy and SEO. 

[00:04:00] But you mentioned a business partner. 

[00:04:02] Can you tell us how you guys, came together? And How you make that work. 

[00:04:07] Sure. So Cody was someone that I had interviewed on my podcast, who was trying to achieve financial independence.

[00:04:14] And we knew each other. We'd attend similar conferences. 

[00:04:17] And he had been freelancing for friends of mine. And I heard great things about him. He actually had just graduated college and I was about to turn 30. 

[00:04:24] So we have a little bit of an age difference, but he was in that perfect point of life where he was ready to grind.

[00:04:29] And I had just with my first daughter and I was super sick and couldn't leave the couch. And we had a conversation of, Hey, it would be really great if we launched a series of online courses and one of them will be blogging. 

[00:04:42] And we divvied up tasks, but this was very casually. And then, All of a sudden, four weeks later, I hear back from him and he's got 12 videos recorded.

[00:04:49] Wow. And I think, and I was sitting on the couch sick and I'm like, Oh, this is it. This is the person that I need right now. 

[00:04:54] Cause I want to move forward, but I can't physically do it. And this is rare because I've had other business partners. 

[00:05:00] I've brainstormed tons of ideas with people, but it's very rare that you find someone that after the first meeting, they can just go their self starter.

[00:05:07] They don't need any direction and they just get stuff done. So I just knew here's someone that was special. So we launched the business together and he has a whole different lifestyle. 

[00:05:15] Like he travels all over the world with his wife. They go to Greece for four weeks and all this stuff.

[00:05:20] Whereas I am more tied to the suburban lifestyle. 

[00:05:23] But it really does work for us because I have some unavailability with the kids. 

[00:05:27] And we both want the same thing, which is a business that we love to do. We only do the stuff that we like for the most part. And. 

[00:05:35] We can still scale and grow without having to put in the terrible hours every day.

[00:05:39] Yeah, gosh, that's amazing. And it's such a crazy affirmation because there's something that's going on behind the scenes for me. 

[00:05:46] And a partnership that is brewing and some of the things that you said are, they're reminiscent and resonant and, kind of things that this person has said about me and how I feel about her.

[00:05:59] And so hearing you say that, it's just wow, maybe we really are, onto something. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Okay. 

Niche Down or Diversify? Strategies for Digital Product Sellers

[00:06:06] So you talk a lot about niching down, and finding like a product in a particular space. Where does one even start? Because then maybe we could use me as an example.

[00:06:17] I always love to volunteer as tribute. 

[00:06:18] Because let's say someone has a business already, where they sell physical products, how can they niche down into creating digital products? 

[00:06:28] Should they do something that's similar to what they're already doing? 

[00:06:31] Or is it okay to go off into something completely different than what they do with their 

[00:06:36] physical products.

[00:06:37] So the answer is it depends, and I can go through what path you would take in each scenario. So sometimes we have students that would join the ePrintables course where they are a particular profession. 

[00:06:48] They're a speech language pathologist, and that's what they know, and they even have resources that they used in the classroom, and they got everything they need, and it's just, they don't know how to make an Etsy shop.

[00:06:57] In that particular case, I would say, follow your niche and become the everything for that. And Etsy does say that it rewards when a shop is in a particular niche. And by reward, it just means it knows what this shop is about. So it'll probably have an easier time matching your listings with their search queries, because they'll just know you're in that speech language niche.

[00:07:16] That being said, most people don't come in with that particular niche background. And some of the physical sellers have something that easily translates to a digital product. Like for example, if you make crochet animals, then crochet patterns is a natural thing to add to your shop. That makes sense. That being said, most people don't have that.

[00:07:36] So then this goes into the third category of if you're an existing seller. How successful of a seller are you? For example, if you are making 50, 000 a year and this is your full time job, I would not experiment and you're in one niche. I would not experiment by adding digital products into your actual shop.

[00:07:53] I would create a second shop just for printables. That being said, if you're a casual seller and you're making like less than a thousand dollars per month, then in this case, there's no, in my reason, there's no, There's nothing to lose. There's only something to gain. By diversifying your product mix and adding printables directly into your shop.

[00:08:10] And in that case, I would diversify. 

The Magic of Seasonal Products and Targeting Group Gifts

[00:08:13] And first, I would start with seasonal products, which is our seasonal product set strategy. 

[00:08:17] Because we see people making sales. Faster that way in the principle space. So find a holiday that's two months ahead and make principles for that. 

[00:08:25] And then Etsy does have that feedback mechanism where if you're getting sales, you're getting views, favorites, all that, then you're like putting a thumbs up to your shop and they'll continue to show it, maybe give you better placement, things like that going forward.

[00:08:37] And that's something that you can do with that seasonal wave rush. 

[00:08:40] I don't love watching people try to pick a random niche and try to follow it. 

[00:08:44] Because most of the sellers that I've been tracking since. They started with us in 2019. They've changed their niche a million times. So like the chances of you picking a niche out of nowhere, that's the right niche that has high search volume and you're going to love it, is just rare.

[00:08:58] So I would be, I would say, don't be afraid to try all the different things if you're in that third category of seller that I mentioned. 

[00:09:04] Okay, that's great. And it's so helpful because, like I said, I have two different businesses. One is collage and wood, which is my website collage wood dot com. And then I have collage wood on Etsy.

[00:09:14] And then my new digital product shop for SEo. Related things is knowledge vomit. And so I did what you said. I created a new Etsy store for knowledge, vomit. 

[00:09:26] And now I'm trying to put products in there. But on my Shopify store, I actually created a senior night planning guide. 

[00:09:33] And made it a paid lead magnet.

[00:09:36] So I just put that up in the last couple of days. And I'm really excited to see if I can get some of those like top of funnel, just people who are searching for ideas for senior night. 

[00:09:45] If I could capture them with that, lower priced offer. Versus, them just reading through the blogs and then leaving.

[00:09:52] So that's, that's something I think I probably picked up from you during that last Shopify 

[00:09:57] summit. 

[00:09:58] Yes. And I've been selling on Shopify for a while too. We've never been able to get the scale on individual printable businesses with Shopify that we did. We sell on Shopify for gold city ventures and we sell templates.

[00:10:09] And it's like what you said, it's all centered around one particular Target avatar customer, whereas the printables that I sell are like all over the place in different spaces. So I think if I had pursued just the bachelorette niche, like I originally did, and some of my best sellers are in bachelorette and I made a Shopify store all about bachelorette, then I would have crushed it.

[00:10:27] But we've been a little bit all over the place with my personal Shopify. But I do one of the ways that I monetize off of Etsy. I have a blog, the swag elephant dot com that has a bunch of bachelorette party posts and I have these posts are ancient. I barely have updated them. 

[00:10:41] But I do get affiliate marketing commissions because if they don't buy my stuff, then they buy other people's things. 

[00:10:47] And in the bachelorette space.

[00:10:48] They're buying 15 to 20 items of the thing at once versus an individual one. And that was another big kind of light bulb moment to me when I started my Etsy shop of, Oh, I could, I was selling like the feminist tattoo niche where people are buying one for themselves or a gift. 

[00:11:02] But the bachelorette tattoo niche that I was selling in, you'd buy 15 or 20.

[00:11:05] So I'm like, Oh, this is good. Like group. 

[00:11:07] People that are buying group gifts on Etsy. That's a good target customer. So I've been pursuing that too. 

[00:11:13] Wow. That is so smart. The group gifts, because there's another place we intersect, which is like seasonal. 

[00:11:19] Like for me, my, my business is with sports. 

[00:11:22] Because there's always going to be fall sports, winter sports, spring sports, and then we're gearing up again for either graduation or fall sports.

[00:11:28] Having that seasonal component and just that customer reset, because there's always going to be another group of brides. There's always going to be another group of bachelorettes. And so that's the first thing that I really love about what you said. And then the second thing about it just being groups.

[00:11:42] That is super smart because then you know that they're going to need to buy other things for multiple people. 

[00:11:48] So when I do my follow through Friday for this episode, that is something I'm going to do and make sure that I update. My blogs with my Etsy affiliate links so that I can capture some of those group sales as well is so smart.

[00:12:01] Yes, and I do think that Etsy rewards backlinks. 

[00:12:07] And for those of you that maybe have a blog, you may know that it's a strategy to try to get other people to link to your blog getting other people to link to your Etsy items. Etsy didn't directly say this, but when I was doing the latest research, they mentioned how Getting a bunch of people to link to your stuff on Etsy makes Google see that particular Etsy listing as more valuable.

[00:12:27] And perhaps you will show up higher in Google search placement. 

[00:12:31] Because you have all of these links to your stuff. And I actually have found that myself. 

[00:12:35] Because I have a blog and I've linked to my products and sometimes I've linked to some of my students products and those students have gone on to do really well.

[00:12:41] And you would think, oh you're exposing your listings too much if you're linking. But actually I think you're like making Etsy realize it's more relevant for the keywords that you're using to link. 

[00:12:51] Wow, that's really interesting. So super, super helpful tip for linking and back linking strategy.

[00:12:57] I, one thing I like about having an Etsy shop in addition to the Shopify store. 

[00:13:02] In addition to even like an Amazon store, I don't know if you sell on Amazon as well. But all of those are places on the search engine results pages that you're taking up space. So if you get to the point where you're either ranking for your business name or a specific keyword, then your business is going to show up in all those places.

[00:13:21] So now, even though it's got infinite scroll on Google search results now, which means you can just keep going and going, there's still this idea of page one. And if you're taking up space, Most of the space on the search results page. When people first get there, I think you're more likely to get a click or at least it reinforces your brand.

[00:13:40] That's a good point. No, I never sold on Amazon because I was working there. That was the last corporate job I did for almost five years. So I was. Afraid to, because I was starting to be more of like a meta guru with like how to sell on the internet. I didn't want to be like how to sell on Amazon from someone who works at Amazon.

[00:13:56] I'd be a let go real fast. So I didn't, I stayed away from Amazon, but that's a great, that's a great option for people for selling. 

[00:14:02] Yeah, which is funny. I've seen like a guy who left Amazon. I saw his TikTok videos of, here are some tips from somebody who worked at Amazon. I think he, I can't remember his name.

[00:14:13] I think he actually speaks at a lot of different conferences. So I don't know what their, non disclosure agreements are. 

[00:14:20] That might be just a little something for you to tap in. Yeah. put into as well. 

Navigating Copycats and Protecting Your Digital Products

[00:14:24] But okay, so for those of us that are maybe a little bit unfamiliar with like printables and digital products, can you explain how that process works?

[00:14:35] Sure. So customers are shopping on Etsy for downloadable products. 

[00:14:40] Sometimes they're looking for last minute gifts that you can literally print out. 

[00:14:43] Like my business partner, Cody, he had a big hit with love coupons. 

[00:14:48] Where people are buying last minute Valentine's Day gifts or a different Father's Day, etc.

[00:14:52] You can imagine. 

[00:14:53] And I've done last minute greeting cards on Etsy. I've seen students do well with that. 

[00:14:57] But then you also can do social media templates. You can do knowledge like e books. 

[00:15:03] I try to stay away from that space to be honest. 

[00:15:05] You can imagine with Gold City Ventures we could spin up a whole shop about Etsy SEO tips. 

[00:15:09] But I'm afraid that Etsy won't like you selling Etsy SEO tips that are not endorsed on their platform. And it's only a matter of time before they figure it out.

[00:15:17] So I stay away from that. 

[00:15:18] I don't really love like the ebook niche, but you can do printable games for kids. 

[00:15:21] Or you said you were a teacher. I've seen students crush it with just teaching resources. 

[00:15:26] And then they sell them again on TPT. 

[00:15:28] For example, you could do lesson plans, tracing sheets.

[00:15:31] My daughter loves tracing sheets. Coloring pages. There's infinite things. Teacher appreciation gifts are a huge niche. Those are things that people download and print. 

[00:15:39] The key is, you're making them on your computer. And then you're uploading them to Etsy. 

[00:15:43] And then when the customer buys, you actually don't have to do anything to fulfill the order.

[00:15:47] It automatically moves over to the completed section. And you would just answer a customer questions. 

[00:15:52] Now, customers don't always know tech. So if you make a more complicated product, like it's editable. 

[00:15:58] Or if they just can't figure out how to download it, they might message you. So there may be that piece of it, but you can try to get ahead of those by providing instructions and things with the purchase so that you can try to get them not to message you.

[00:16:11] Yeah. 

Embracing Imitation and Finding Your Unique Edge

[00:16:11] And I was thinking, what about the whole copycat thing? Because I have a friend who sells a digital course and, I'm, I know you've got to have that abundance mindset and all that type of stuff, but someone actually took her course, downloaded all of the materials and then repackaged them and sold them as their course.

[00:16:30] And so they had to get a lawyer involved and that type of stuff. So is there any, fears with that type of thing. 

[00:16:37] And, because also, people get ideas from other sellers. So it's Oh, they're doing that. I'm going to do it too. That type of thing. Is there any way to protect your intellectual property? Or is that a concern that, anybody you've worked with has had as well?

[00:16:51] I would say. Don't watermark your stuff because that will reduce your ability to show up in Google and other things most likely. 

[00:16:59] Because you're blocking the image and you might reduce click throughs. 

[00:17:01] So a lot of people do that and that's just not the wrong move. Yes, abundance mentality in business is really important to have.

[00:17:07] I think a lot of us when we're starting something new we try to talk ourselves out of doing it. And at the end of the day, Not, I think my dad always says there's nothing new under the sun. 

[00:17:15] Everyone is recreating the same stuff. But there's, that's not a reason to move forward. There's people that are succeeding every single day.

[00:17:22] And if you sit back and don't go after your dreams, cause you're afraid of what will happen, then you're not going to, you just can't, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. 

[00:17:31] So you've got to go for it. Now, in terms of copycats, I mentioned this before. I. Don't think it's as big of a deal as it is.

[00:17:39] Like for example, I have over a hundred thousand people on the gold city ventures email list. 

[00:17:43] The first or second email you click into my Etsy shop. My best selling product is a bachelorette party scavenger hunt that I've mentioned on a hundred podcasts. And link to blogs. That being said, it's still sells.

[00:17:53] My most exposed product, the most copied product still sells. So if you have the right strategy. And your product is the best product. 

[00:18:01] Then you don't need to worry about that type of copycat stuff. And in fact, when you're first getting started, I think a lot of new people, they focus so much on getting the money and the income. 

[00:18:11] But really you're training yourself on how to understand search volume, SEO, Consumer demand, how to make products, how to pivot quickly.

[00:18:19] It's almost like getting paid to be trained. So I think maybe there's a little bit of too much focus on Oh, I just, I had three listings and someone copied these three listings. 

[00:18:27] I totally understand how they feel and that feels horrible to be copied. 

[00:18:32] But at the same time, it's the, what you learned while creating those three listings. 

[00:18:36] While getting to the point of being a bestseller, no one can take that from you and that's your brain.

[00:18:42] So as long as you're still in the business, it's not a waste of time in any way. If someone copied and there's always copycats, like for example, gold city ventures, I just found somebody. 

[00:18:50] I found her a while ago, but. She copied our lead magnet webinar. email copy. 

[00:18:55] People are messaging me saying, hey, is this your business?

[00:18:57] She didn't download the resources, I don't think, but it's complete copy. It's just, no matter what level you're at, there's always going to be copycats, but the bigger you get, the more you can afford the legal team to help you. 

[00:19:07] So at the beginning, you don't need that or have that. But now, we spent like almost 20 K on legal in December.

[00:19:12] That's a large business at our size. That's normal. Business is tough. Doing hard things is tough. Making a lot of money is hard. 

[00:19:18] So don't be afraid of it. Lean into it. You can totally do it. 

[00:19:21] Yeah. And they do say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 

[00:19:26] Yes. And at the end of the day, yeah, they're copying a strategy.

[00:19:28] They're making some sales on it. That's frustrating. Why don't they get their own thing? But it's like, that's a person that can't think of their own thing, but you can, and you have the brain that's creative and smart and you're training yourself to seek opportunities. 

[00:19:38] And they're not going to notice when there's a gap in the market and you're going to move forward and jump on it.

[00:19:43] And they're going to have to wait to see what everyone else is doing. 

[00:19:45] Because they can't figure out what to do themselves. 

[00:19:47] Yes, exactly. 

[00:19:48] And at first I wasn't a huge fan of that, and I was very nervous about it early on with my Etsy shop. 

[00:19:54] Because I was the first one to make jersey number collages. Because you couldn't find numbers in the store, 10 years ago.

[00:20:01] We had to start making them. And then, people wanted the numbers. So then we started making the numbers to sell to people or whatever. 

[00:20:07] Now we make really big, giant numbers. So it's funny how the people who, you know, shifted into that, Jersey number collage space, they, have part of the equation, but not all of it. 

[00:20:19] And in the meantime, it actually created a bigger percentage of sales for us. To go into selling giant numbers. As photo props, as event decor. Of all these different things. 

[00:20:30] And so it's yes, I still make the photo collages, but a bigger part of our business now is actually the giant numbers that came from that whole experience.

[00:20:39] Yeah. And I think. Culture and art and everything imitates each other. 

[00:20:43] So sometimes when people call me in my Etsy shop, I actually think it helps me because they're creating more demand on Pinterest and in social media and stuff for the exact thing I sell. 

[00:20:52] Like for example, maybe it wasn't a huge thing to do a scavenger hunt for a bachelorette party, like a bar scavenger hunt. But.

[00:20:58] When people are Googling how to have a fun bachelorette party and there's 12 different results of scavenger hunts, then they've just created more demand for that particular product and expanded the market. 

[00:21:08] Copycats, do I want them to copy me? No. 

Navigating the Challenges of Being a Newbie on Etsy

[00:21:11] And sometimes, we're acting like they're bad people.

[00:21:13] These are just like, oftentimes it's just newbies that can't think of something to do. 

[00:21:16] And they didn't even realize they're like, oh, sorry. 

[00:21:18] I was just getting started and you don't want to scare anyone. Because I also see on the other coin, people are too afraid because they're afraid they're going to copy someone.

[00:21:24] And they're like I want to make a scavenger hunt. So I don't know how to make it different than yours. 

[00:21:28] And they get all stressed out and they don't move forward. So really, I just want to mention this is not a big deal. 

[00:21:32] It's a little bit of an annoyance when you're on the, when you're on the more established seller side. 

[00:21:36] If you're new, like you just got to take chances. And if you make mistakes or whatever, you're not going to do, you're not going to put Disney in your shop.

[00:21:41] So as long as you don't do that, you're going to be okay. Yeah. 

[00:21:44] And that's so 

From Personal Projects to Etsy Success

[00:21:45] funny because the initial idea I had for creating a photo collage was something I found on Etsy. 

[00:21:49] That I couldn't afford at the time. And so I was like I'll just make this for my volleyball team members, and then when it came later to say, okay, I want to start an Etsy shop. 

[00:21:58] What's one thing I've done? I'm like I made those letters for my volleyball team, so I totally, I love that idea about creating more demand. 

The Importance of Community and Demand in Business

[00:22:05] And then I was reading a post on LinkedIn the other day where an event planner.

[00:22:10] Was talking about how in 2020, the event industry really suffered because people couldn't travel and go to these events. 

[00:22:18] And he saw a lot of different event companies and planners go out of business at that time. 

[00:22:23] And he realized he was like, you know what? I used to view them just as competition. 

[00:22:29] But in different words, he said, what you said: you know what, actually we need each other because it creates the demand for what we sell.

[00:22:37] So I just think that's such an interesting perspective and what a paradigm shift as a business 

[00:22:42] owner. 

[00:22:43] Yeah, and 

[00:22:43] when you start getting there, it's wonderful. 

Leveraging Competition to Boost Your Business

[00:22:45] So I mentioned the woman that I know is ripping off our business at the same time. She's converting more people into thinking that our printable option is the right side hustle for them.

[00:22:54] You got to look at it both ways. And I think that's huge. I love what you said about the spaces that you sell in. 

[00:22:59] And how you're seeing, you saw over time how the interest in certain products even led to interest in other products and you could build on upon that. 

[00:23:06] As long as you have your brain, don't worry about what other people are doing, like worry about what you're doing.

[00:23:10] Yeah. 

Keyword Research: The Secret to Finding Unique Products

[00:23:11] And I think it's totally natural, but I will mention this. 

[00:23:14] The product has been my best seller the last couple of years, not in the bachelorette party space. It's one that I found using keyword research and no one, I was literally the first person to sell it on Etsy in this particular. 

[00:23:25] So there is something to be said of that because I think a lot of people base their strategy just on looking what else is out there.

[00:23:30] But everyone else out there could have created a product that was awful. 

[00:23:34] Like they could have missed what everyone wanted, what everyone was searching for. 

[00:23:37] And they're like, Oh, why is there none of this, with purple sparkles on it. I've been looking for purple sparkles or unicorns or whatever.

[00:23:42] You can use keyword research and that's what we teach with our students of how to find the things that are not existing yet. That are highly searched. 

[00:23:50] So when you teach your students, are you looking for Google trends? 

[00:23:54] Are you using Pinterest trends or do you have, I don't want to give away your whole secrets here. 

[00:23:59] But do you have a starting point for someone to seek out what could be a potential great opportunity?

[00:24:05] All of the above. Yes. And then we are huge fans of E Rank. That's the, if we had to pick one tool, get in your life boat, if boat collapses, you pick E Rank. 

[00:24:13] And it's not just saying E Rank is not exposing things because if anyone's ever logged into E Rank, it's a lot.

[00:24:19] There is a lot there. It's like not the most streamlined thing, but those of us that do know what we're doing love it. 

[00:24:24] Because it's find and seek and you can use it in a million different ways. And we just love it. So that's what I would tell people. And it stinks Oh, I have to pay for another subscription.

[00:24:33] But like the basic E Rank tool, like it's like less than 10 a month or something.

[00:24:36] If you're not willing to spend 10 to invest, but you're willing to spend money in all these other ways that are like wasted. I think that's nuts.

[00:24:43] Like the keyword and the data is where it's at.

[00:24:46] Okay. 

[00:24:46] So what about that first sale? I've noticed on one of your posts that somebody had posted that they had just gotten their first sale and it was so exciting. 

[00:24:54] And it's been, 10 years since I got my first sale, on Etsy, but now that I have this new knowledge vomit shop and I'm trying to sell like SEO printables or whatever. 

[00:25:04] It's what can you do now in 2024 that's going to help you get that first sale?

The Power of Seasonal Products for Quick Sales

[00:25:09] I think when I see students get their first sale and the ones that get it fastest. 

[00:25:13] A couple of things, one, the seasonal product route, I really think that's the way to go. 

[00:25:17] Because if you think about why people are on Etsy, they're shopping for special occasions. They're shopping for certain people. 

[00:25:23] And they even in the seller handbook, they tell us like what they want us to make basically by saying, here's who for example, for Christmas, they were talking about how there needs to be more gifts for teenagers.

[00:25:33] And it's like an older kids. People mostly focus on babies. So they're telling you like, because they make money when we make money. 

[00:25:39] So they're basically saying, make more stuff for teens and older kids. You can make products that are what Etsy is saying they want. 

[00:25:46] You can make products that fit like holidays and things like that.

[00:25:49] So I think that will lead to the first sale. 

[00:25:50] And then another thing that will lead to it is making sure that you are executing on all of your steps. 

The Value of Investing in Learning and Courses

[00:25:56] I think personally, I like taking courses for things because I don't have the time being a busy mom to figure all this out myself. 

[00:26:04] And when I was in my twenties and I was sitting in my apartment in the city and it was like, Oh, should I like go out and get this?

[00:26:09] Or should I sit down and learn for five hours? I had the time to actually do it. It was just my own personal willpower. 

[00:26:14] I don't have the time right now. We were talking before this. All the kids got sick over Christmas. They don't go to daycare when they're sick. It's just a big, Swarm of everything that happens.

[00:26:22] My power went out an hour ago. I have a lot more that I'm worrying about now. 

[00:26:25] And I can't be Googling for a hundred hours and then trying to assess whether the person that I'm following knows what they're doing or not. 

[00:26:32] So that's why I take courses. We have a course. 

[00:26:35] Anything I want to learn, I will go buy a course.

[00:26:37] Like I want to learn like many chat, which is a social media tool. 

[00:26:41] I'm going to go buy a course. I'm not going to sit there and just scour the internet like I used to. I think, that's what people can do. 

[00:26:47] Just don't sit around and waste your time trying to go in a hundred different directions.

[00:26:50] You'll burn yourself out. 

[00:26:51] Yeah. Wow. That's really great advice. 

Optimizing Digital Product Delivery and Customer Experience

[00:26:53] So what about when you're delivering your digital product? 

[00:26:57] Do you have a recommendation of using Canva versus Google docs. 

[00:27:00] Versus a PDF or anything like that? Is there anything that's been shown to perform better than others? 

[00:27:06] I think it's how much time do you have.

[00:27:08] Like, I'm making the most money on more complex things. Like things that are editable. 

[00:27:12] Things that I like, like using Google Docs, for example. 

[00:27:15] But anytime you do that, most people are not techie.

[00:27:18] They're just not like majority of people. So you're going to get more messages. 

[00:27:22] Whereas if you're selling like flat PDFs that are just print at home, no customization, no tech involved. 

[00:27:28] You're going to get the occasional person who can't figure out how to download it. 

[00:27:31] But, you're just not going to hear from it at all.

[00:27:33] So I recommend with people just be realistic about your life. 

[00:27:37] Like I think a lot of people when they start, they're really going after the flashy numbers cause they're like, Oh, I want to make my money back as soon as possible. 

[00:27:44] But you got to think about your lifestyle. And you'd rather have a slower sales start, but then you create all these bestsellers that are plain pdfs if you literally do not have time to manage all these other techie things.

[00:27:55] Or you know if you have more time then you can lean towards those products that you can charge more for them, but they're more complicated. 

[00:28:01] So I guess I would say it depends on how much time you have. And how passive you want this business to be for you. 

[00:28:06] Knowing that, there's a trade off Sometimes.

[00:28:08] That like some of the cheaper products that are easier to facilitate the download they you don't get to make as much on them. 

[00:28:13] Okay.

Navigating the Legalities of Digital Product Creation

[00:28:13] And then this question just popped into my head. Are there rules for this? Like with digital products, say you're using Canva and there's thousands of templates in Canva. If you change a few things in that template, is that now considered your own template that you could sell? 

[00:28:28] Or is that kind of frowned upon?

[00:28:31] This is the part where. It's scary when you get started, but then you learn it. I would not use Canva's templates at all. 

[00:28:37] That was that those are like created by Canva. We used to only use the free Canva elements for a long time, but then Canva recently put some stuff in their terms of conditions in their licenses that you can use pro in certain ways.

[00:28:49] I would say, just be careful. 

[00:28:51] I would create your own stuff. 

[00:28:52] Like create a compilation that is yours. Don't just rip off Canva templates and sell them as your own on Etsy. 

[00:28:58] And will they ever know? It's not like that. The reason I'm saying it. Although I always do the right thing.

[00:29:03] And of course with our students, we're teaching them to the right thing. It's more, if you rip off a Canva template, you're not making a very competitive product because anyone can do that. 

[00:29:10] So if you take the extra second to plan out what you think it should look like and even. 

[00:29:15] Maybe if Canva has a template, like use their template and then figure out what was missing about it and make it better.

[00:29:20] If you take the extra second to actually use your product and you're like, Oh, this makes no sense. 

[00:29:24] Like for example, on us, for a password tracker, most people that you see on Etsy and also Canva and stuff, they're making password trackers as if your password is never going to change. I forget my password every day.

[00:29:35] I'm resetting it like three times a month. I can't remember with like my mom brain situation. So why doesn't it have multiple columns? So that's what I'm saying. 

[00:29:42] If you just copy your take, what's there. And you don't actually try to use it and you don't think and use your brain, your products are just not going to be as good.

[00:29:48] Whereas if you take five seconds and you're like, Oh, this makes no sense. Like I just changed my password twice in the last week. There's supposed to be multiple columns. So that's what I would say. 

[00:29:56] That's super smart. 

Etsy SEO Insights for 2024

[00:29:57] Okay, so let's run through some elements of Etsy SEO just to give people an idea of what to double check. 

[00:30:04] Or maybe some insights on how to do it better.

[00:30:07] What about just in terms of 2024? Are there new trends for Etsy SEO that we need to be 

[00:30:13] aware of? 

[00:30:13] I did some research on what Etsy published and just, I want to really reiterate that they were hammering the fact that Google is a really important part of your Etsy SEO strategy. 

[00:30:24] Like optimizing your stuff for Google. 

[00:30:26] And, why? Is because Google has a lot more people searching than are searching on Etsy.

[00:30:31] So why not? Etsy is fronting the money for us to advertise our stuff on Google. 

[00:30:36] The key though is you have to make it easier for Google to know what your stuff is about and to put you in the right spots. So they mentioned to make sure that your descriptions. 

[00:30:44] They're going to look at the whole descriptions end to end.

[00:30:46] And they highlighted that things in the description like, what material, techniques that are used. 

[00:30:51] Size, a bunch of different things. I recently, I have a, we have a podcast, Crickets to Cha Chings. That's about Etsy. I don't know if you know that, but I recently just went through all of the things there. All of that stuff should be in your description.

[00:31:02] You should use alt tags on your images. Alt, if you don't know what that is, if someone has a visual impairment and they're deaf. Shopping on Etsy. They need to use words to shop on the site. It automatically, I believe, takes your title, but you can change it to be very particular. 

[00:31:16] So let's say you sell brown leather handbags with a rainbow strap.

[00:31:20] Your Alt tag should say brown leather handbag with a rainbow strap. And then you know, whether there's like a hand or someone showing it up. 

[00:31:26] So that it would just describe the actual item. 

[00:31:30] That can be another place for keywords but don't stuff it with a keyword that don't tell someone with a visual impairment what the item is. 

[00:31:35] Because Not only is that the wrong thing to do, but also that's just not going to help you.

[00:31:40] Really, you know focus on using that the right way. 

[00:31:41] But anyways, those are some things for google. 

[00:31:43] And then on the Etsy side. 

[00:31:45] They just mentioned that titles and tags should repeat. Which I thought was interesting. 

[00:31:48] And attributes and categories should not repeat the tags because it's unnecessary.

[00:31:54] Okay, that's very helpful. 

[00:31:55] I looked at one of your listings and I thought it was really interesting. 

Personalizing Your Etsy Shop for Better Customer Connection

[00:31:58] It was for a funeral, which is, I thought was, wow. And I just, we've had a couple of really untimely deaths in my family. 

[00:32:06] And my dad and I were just talking about this last night, like all the preparations that you have to make or, things you have to come up with and you're, If you're not really prepared for it, it's a lot. 

[00:32:15] Especially when you're dealing with that grief.

[00:32:17] But I noticed that your title wasn't super long, but you had gotten, lots of sales on it. 

[00:32:23] Or at least I could tell that you had gotten some recent sales and reviews and different things on it. 

[00:32:28] So I was just wondering do you feel like it's not necessary to use all of the characters in the title. 

[00:32:34] Or do you feel like it just depends or do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:32:38] I think it depends. And I think some of it is do as I say and not as I do in a lot of ways. 

[00:32:42] Because I'm like a human too. 

[00:32:44] I have 200 plus, I might've deactivated some of them. 

[00:32:47] But at one time I had 200 and something listings. 

[00:32:49] So that's a lot for me to be thinking of a hundred keywords in every title.

[00:32:53] I know Etsy and Google don't like the same word being used multiple times in the title. 

[00:32:57] But they're okay with different key phrases being used. But I think in that particular situation, this is a use your brain moment. 

[00:33:04] You can imagine in what was going on with the pandemic and unfortunately.

[00:33:08] Families were having a hard time and they want to do something special for people and there are more deaths just in general, there was just higher demand that it.

[00:33:16] It made sense to offer a product that provided them with some customization, personalized, special thing that made them feel good about what was happening. 

[00:33:24] Because I know when I still remember this, like when my grandmother died, when I was young, someone printed out like an Irish poem and put her picture in and it was just very beautiful.

[00:33:31] And I still, I think I, we, my mom and I would like, we kept that. 

[00:33:34] Providing people like a nice little keepsake there, but. 

[00:33:36] This is an example of what I was telling you earlier, where when you do a product like this yeah, it may seem at macro that was a, that's great. 

[00:33:45] But just keep in mind, how do you think I feel when I get customer service requests?

[00:33:49] I can't I have a hard time keeping those people at distance because I know that they're hurting and they're going through a really difficult time. 

[00:33:54] I just have to be more responsive and I have to be on more. 

[00:33:57] Whereas if someone's printing out like a gift card holder. 

[00:33:59] If I don't answer them immediately or whatever i'm doing it within 24 hours, but if I don't answer like right away, It just gives me a little more flexibility in my life. 

[00:34:06] Whereas in this case I'm, like I know that because i've done this, you know when people have died in my life. 

[00:34:10] I'm, like there's two people sitting at a computer Someone got tasked with filling this thing out and they're stressed and they have to get it done by tonight. 

[00:34:15] They have to get it printed by tonight. And I have to answer them right now. 

[00:34:18] When you're selling, you have to think of what you're selling in the urgency of the customer. 

[00:34:21] And then, can I actually make space for that in my life that I have right now. 

[00:34:24] And then also, like what I mentioned before when you're selling things that are like Google docs and more complex editable things with non techie people.

[00:34:32] I get a lot of messages about that. So yes, I get a lot of sales and reviews and stuff. 

[00:34:36] But I'm getting message from someone like, Hey, I'm trying to get this picture in here and it's, whatever. 

[00:34:41] And I'm figuring out their tech and I feel like I feel really bad and guilty because I know how important it is in this particular life occasion to get it right. 

[00:34:48] I have a hard time with that. 

[00:34:48] So anyways. 

[00:34:49] I just wanted to mention that because like sometimes, when you see people have like sellers and you they make a lot of money in certain ways. 

[00:34:54] Like there's costs. 

[00:34:55] Whereas you need to think about your life. 

[00:34:57] And if you're like, hey I'm truly maxed out right now, then don't sell a product like that. 

[00:35:00] Because it's you can find another product, search harder to find one that will make as much money. 

[00:35:04] But it may not fit in everyone's life.

[00:35:06] And because if you get bad reviews and you can't do it right, then you're going to tank your shop overall. 

[00:35:11] Yeah. I've only had a few experiences like that. 

[00:35:14] I've had miscarriages or, like a SIDS, a couple of SIDS collages that I made. 

[00:35:20] And it was just. Oh, those stick with me, like I still have a picture of one little girl.

[00:35:24] I just call her baby E. 

[00:35:25] Like in a little toolbox I have with my paint brushes. But that was just like, so heartbreaking to do that. 

[00:35:31] So those are really tough ones. 

[00:35:33] But I admire your empathy. 

[00:35:35] Even reading the description and how you ended the description. I thought, wow, what an empathetic seller. 

[00:35:42] To really think through how the person's feeling on the other side. 

[00:35:46] And I think it's important to note because we talk about like how SEO user experience all of those things go together. They're not separate. 

[00:35:56] We can try to silo them, but at the end of the day, they're all part of that customer experience and that journey.

[00:36:02] And so I thought that was a really great illustration of how you do that. 

The Impact of Video on Etsy Product Listings

[00:36:05] So moving back to something just a little bit more lighthearted. 

[00:36:08] When you're creating your listings and, especially for digital products, how can you optimize for video or using video in a digital product listing?

[00:36:19] There's two ways you can do it. 

[00:36:20] If it's editable, you can show how to edit it, or you can show the product actually in use. 

[00:36:25] They say that video helps conversions. I've been experimenting with this for a long time.

[00:36:29] And even a year ago, I actually, I'm always running experiments. 

[00:36:32] Because I feel like my shop, it's not really as important to me to make like a massive amount of sales.

[00:36:37] It's really important for me to be ahead of all the trends so that when I do distill it back to my students, like I have an answer. 

[00:36:43] So about maybe it was two years ago now, actually. I went on to upwork and I found a bunch of videographers. 

[00:36:48] And I was paying them to take videos of my printables and to see like whether that actually increased conversions or not. 

[00:36:55] And I actually found that outsourcing in this particular space is impossible. Like you have to do it yourself.

[00:37:01] And then I tried again recently and I did It Get people, I paid a little more to get people that were better, like user content creators. 

[00:37:09] But then they were too expensive. And it's with how much money you'll make on each listing. It's just not worth it at this point. 

[00:37:14] It's like still too expensive.

[00:37:15] If you do it yourself, that's better. But my point of saying this is it's not necessarily the fact that you had a video, it has to be like the right video. 

[00:37:22] And it has to show the customer the actual product. So I found a genius example. For Halloween, there was a lady that was selling tags that go with glow sticks.

[00:37:31] If you wanted to give out glow sticks and you didn't want to give out candy It was like a frankenstein tag. 

[00:37:34] And all she had in her video was just like her hand picking up the tag and putting it closer. 

[00:37:39] So you could actually see it and you know that it wasn't a genius video at all. 

[00:37:42] But like you can see why that led to more conversions because compared to the other flat competition around it, like people could actually get a sense of what that product would feel like and look like in their hand. 

[00:37:53] And i'm telling you this because I don't think it's necessarily I think with seo and all this stuff people get like nerdy. 

[00:37:58] And then when it doesn't work It's like that's because they just didn't use their brain. 

[00:38:01] Like it just makes it makes sense. That you can see the product better with a video so they buy it more. 

[00:38:06] Like there's no like Secret hack or anything.

[00:38:09] And if you don't have a good video, it's not going to help you convert. So, that's where i'm at with it. 

[00:38:13] And if I have the time to print I don't print out all my products like I have the time I will. 

[00:38:18] Otherwise, I just will skip it but knowing that i'm leaving money on the table. 

[00:38:21] Like if I had If I didn't have a million things going on Like I would focus 100 percent on this if it was just my Etsy shop. 

[00:38:26] I got 12 businesses and this is one of them.

[00:38:28] I'm running small experiments, but I don't have time to update it for 200 listings. 

[00:38:32] Yeah. Oh gosh. I love all that so much. 

Balancing SEO and Human Experience in Product Listings

[00:38:34] And I think you just really helped me compartmentalize like how to explain this a little bit better in the future. 

[00:38:40] It's because yeah the SEO and the technical part is important and it's yes, something that you need to bring to the table. 

[00:38:46] But you're not finished until you go through it, and the human part, like creating for humans is the actual experience. 

[00:38:53] And what it's like to go through the process of the journey for the customer. 

[00:38:58] And so those two things have to be done, ideally concurrently, but at least they both have to be done in order to have like the ideal, client experience that is also optimized for search. 

[00:39:10] So, that may seem a little bit like elementary and oh, yeah, but for me, it's like, it's really important to lay those two things out. Because if you have 1 and not the other, you may have a great thing that can't be found. But if you have a great thing that's found, but yet.

[00:39:24] Doesn't stand out in any way. And doesn't, help people understand how it works and how it's going to contribute to their life. You may not get the sale either. Or the sale. 

[00:39:32] Yeah. 

[00:39:34] And I have an example, like I see this every day with the students. So we had a tutorial in the course, teaching them how to make gift tags.

[00:39:40] And the ultimate product that you get is a PDF with all the tags next to each other. But then the students, they were, And this is every time I make the course better, I see what they do as the output, and I'm like, oh shoot this needs to be there. 

[00:39:52] And I'm constantly iterating and making it better, because I'm getting to see, because we have so many students, I get to see the output.

[00:39:58] But they were putting the PDF as their main listing image. It was a mock up, but it was the page. 

[00:40:03] So imagine if you're searching for GIF tags. And then you see a page of nine gift tags on a piece of paper. 

[00:40:09] And you're just like, huh? And like the ones next to it are just like one gift tag really zoomed in. 

[00:40:13] I get like the thought process and that's our bad for like Not having that gap in the first place.

[00:40:19] I don't want to scare new people away, but I'm just, what I'm saying, it's you got to think about it. 

[00:40:21] Hey, do you think the customer can see what this is? And it makes sense to them. It is important to tell them like, Hey, it's going to print 12 per page, but is that really what you should lead with?

[00:40:29] Yeah. 

[00:40:30] The last example I can think that makes sense for me too, is for Christmas, my sister in law got these bows off of Amazon. 

[00:40:37] And it's they're flat, like it's flat ribbon. 

[00:40:39] But when you pull the They turn into a beautiful bow. 

[00:40:43] And it's amazing because you just like, boom, done. 

[00:40:45] But if you were to just put a picture of the ribbon, it's really confusing because I've never seen anything like that before.

[00:40:52] But when you have a video showing somebody pulling that ribbons apart and the bow forming, it's like, Okay, now I get it. And that is awesome. 

[00:40:59] And I want it. Okay, this has been just an amazing conversation. I feel like I get to sit here and talk to you and ask questions all day.

Closing Thoughts and Resources for Further Learning

[00:41:06] But if anybody is, interested in learning more about digital products in your course. 

[00:41:10] Or whatever it is that you guys are really going after in 2024 to help people. Do you want to share like where they can go to find 

[00:41:17] out more? 

[00:41:18] Sure. If you're a podcast person, go to the crickets to cha chings podcast.

[00:41:23] And if you would like to learn more about the e printables course and find us at gold city ventures, go to gold city ventures. com G O L D city ventures. com. 

[00:41:32] Awesome. 

[00:41:33] Thank you so much for being with us today. 

[00:41:35] This is a treat for me. Cause like I said, digital products is a new area for me. 

[00:41:40] And learning from you and, even just signing up for your email list has been really helpful.

[00:41:45] And I've learned a lot from what you share, so thanks a lot.

[00:41:48] Thanks so much. Have a good day. 

[00:41:49] All right. See you next time, guys.