Tom Winter

[00:00:00] Tom Winter: And I like to use AI to help me with that because I feel that AI has superpowers. 

[00:00:05] Humans have superpowers. Let's combine them together and let's create something helpful. 

[00:00:09] Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the third season of the Simple and Smart SEO Show. The podcast dedicated to empathy driven brand building SEO. I'm your host, Crystal Waddell. I leverage my obsession with user experience to help business owners just like you optimize your website with confidence. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:26] Let's jump into another great episode.

Introduction and Guest Introduction

[00:00:29] Crystal Waddell: All right, guys, welcome back to the simple and smart SEO show I'm your host Crystal Waddell and today I have Tom Winter with us. 

[00:00:37] Oh, you are gonna be in for a treat my friends because Tom is an expert in combining AI and human innovation. 

[00:00:47] And bringing that to content writing and all sorts of things.

[00:00:49] But I'll let Tom tell a little bit about himself as we get started. So Tom, thank you for being here and welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show. 

[00:00:58] Tom Winter: Thanks a lot, Crystal. Really nice that you invited me. I'm really happy to be here. 

[00:01:02] And I'm really pumped for today's webinar. We already had a talk, and we exchanged a couple of thoughts, and it will be really amazing.

[00:01:08] To say a couple of things about myself. 

Tom Winter's Journey into AI and SEO

[00:01:10] Tom Winter: I'm a serial founder, and I founded SEO Wind, which is a tool that was helping we, me with fulfilling my dreams. 

[00:01:18] All the things that I used to do manually. I was able to create using AI. 

The Birth of SEOwind

[00:01:23] Tom Winter: So basically SEOwind is a tool that helps you to do the research. 

[00:01:26] To nail the search intent.

[00:01:28] So take all the data from different sources, and then based on this research using AI. 

[00:01:32] So AI is just the cherry on the top because it's all about finding all the data that you need to write the articles. 

[00:01:39] So thanks again for the invite and happy to be here. 

[00:01:43] Crystal Waddell: Absolutely and you said that you're a serial founder. So that tells me that you must have started more than one Business. 

Tom's Entrepreneurial Journey

[00:01:51] Crystal Waddell: So could you start at the beginning of your entrepreneur story and how you got to right now?

[00:01:57] Tom Winter: Okay, so like basically I started with an SEO agency that content marketing SEO agency That I built for a couple of years, but then with a couple of friends we decided to build a sas tool that helps with Testing developer skills and mapping out all the competencies inside the company. We were able to scale the whole company from zero to customers paying customers in over 100 countries where I was responsible for everything connected to growth.

[00:02:25] And so I had to build organic traffic and I had to like also cooperate with sales. So I'm a half a marketer, half a sales guy. 

[00:02:35] Half a developer, and I like try to combine all these skills like using the data for my own benefit. 

The Challenges of Content Creation

[00:02:41] Tom Winter: We brought a lot of organic traffic. 

[00:02:44] But my problem was that every time that I was creating or our team was creating some kind of content. We had to nail the search intent.

[00:02:52] And doing briefs was, for me, it was a nightmare. 

[00:02:56] Because I knew that every single time that I was creating content piece and doing briefs, I had to go through the Exactly the same steps using it. 

[00:03:05] Use my brain power to memorize a lot of things. 

[00:03:07] Open up like 20 tabs go to SEMrush or Ahrefs. 

[00:03:11] Dig through the data, grab it all, go to Google, check the SERP results.

[00:03:15] Go to every single page. 

[00:03:17] Scroll through all the pages that I'm competing with. Find the search intent inside it. 

[00:03:23] And combine it all together. So every time that I was trying to make this process better and shorter yeah. 

[00:03:31] Crystal Waddell: Okay. And I always do this. I forgot to tell you, I used to be a teacher, so I raised my hand whenever I have a question.

Understanding Content Briefs and Search Intent

[00:03:37] Crystal Waddell: But you mentioned content briefs and search intent. 

[00:03:41] And so just because some of the listeners of our show, we are entrepreneurs as well. 

[00:03:46] But we're not necessarily tech entrepreneurs.

[00:03:48] So this idea of a content brief was new to me. 

[00:03:51] And I think maybe it might be new to some people who are listening. 

[00:03:55] So could you explain what a content brief is and how it fits into, SEO and that, just their relationship? 

[00:04:01] Tom Winter: Okay, sure thing. 

The Role of AI in Content Creation

[00:04:02] Tom Winter: So basically, the content brief is the research part before you do when writing any article. 

[00:04:08] If you're doing ai writing or human writing, it doesn't matter. 

[00:04:11] You have to research everything which you want to write about in the article. Because if you research it in Google, and you check what's the search intent in Google?

[00:04:19] So by going to Google for your keyword, going through all your competitors. Like scrolling through identifying what are the topics that are they're covering. 

[00:04:27] You're you will nail the search intent because this is, in my opinion, how SEO best works. Like in a way that is more predictable. 

[00:04:36] Because every time like that, I write about a specific topic from top of my head.

[00:04:40] Let's say I'm a specialist in coffee. I know everything about coffee. 

[00:04:44] And if I would write an article from top of my head, the problem is that I will forget about a lot of things that I should mention. 

[00:04:50] Which are the parts of. the search intent.

[00:04:54] And I would just forget about it. And because of that, I would not nail the search intent.

[00:04:58] And because of that, I would probably not fit into top 10 search results. 

[00:05:02] So as an example, I would write about like coffee. I would mention like coffee beans. 

[00:05:07] So there's Arabica, Robusta, but probably I would forget about salsa, liberica, which are not like the first thoughts that you would go into.

[00:05:15] That's why you need to do the research before you are writing. 

[00:05:19] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. 

The Importance of Research in Content Creation

[00:05:20] Crystal Waddell: This idea of researching what's going on that's also a hard part. 

[00:05:24] Because yes, we are the expert, but what else is going on is also important. But it takes time and it takes structure.

[00:05:32] And so I'm just like, man, to organize all that information seems really complicated. 

[00:05:37] And then also that idea of, could there be too much information? In the content? 

[00:05:42] And does it match up with the search intent? Is there a way to understand like how much content you actually need to write versus too much or too little.

[00:05:51] Tom Winter: Yeah. Great question. 

[00:05:52] What I like to do, I like to verify what Google thinks about it. 

[00:05:56] So basically, when I'm going to SERP results, like in a specific query. 

[00:06:00] I can go into the articles to see like how much did my competitors write about it? 

How Google Evaluates Content

[00:06:06] Tom Winter: Like I'm telling here about the search intent as an important part. 

[00:06:09] Because you have to understand how Google works.

[00:06:12] Like I treat Google as a risk management tool. 

[00:06:17] So every time that they show results, they take risk. The risk is if they will show you the best possible result. 

[00:06:23] Because they want to show you the best possible result, which is the answer to the query that you added to Google. And. 

[00:06:30] When they do it, they prefer to go to 80 percent of quality let's say, but 100 percent sure that they're answering your question.

[00:06:38] So every time that for example, I would write about something that I think is better than anybody else there wrote so I want to be purely original in a sense that I'm like, I have a totally different idea. Google takes a risk because it doesn't identify my article as the search intent answer.

[00:06:56] And it takes the risk to show somebody my article.

[00:06:59] Which is totally original and it will check like if it's the answer or not so every single time this is a risk for them. 

[00:07:07] So what, in my opinion, Google prefers is to nail the search intent and add additional original information on top of that. 

[00:07:13] Not to have the best article in the world.

[00:07:16] That only your mom or dad will read because Google will not show it, which is a problem, right? 

[00:07:21] Crystal Waddell: Somebody comes with a specific question. How soon do you answer that question? 

The Risk Google Takes with Search Results

[00:07:26] Crystal Waddell: Because you say Google is taking a risk. 

[00:07:28] What is the risk that they're taking?

[00:07:30] And then. How can you mitigate that risk? And then prove yourself more trustworthy to Google? 

[00:07:35] Tom Winter: So basically Google takes a risk in a sense that they will show something like in the search results that is not the proper answer To a specific query. 

[00:07:44] This is like google's risk. They want to be perceived as the best possible search engine. That always knows the answer. So this is like what they're doing.

[00:07:53] This is their goal. This is their mission to be best In class. When it comes to answering your questions. And this is like basically our goal to fit the criteria that Google thinks are the answer for a specific query. This is how the algorithm works. Did I answer your question? 

[00:08:11] Crystal Waddell: Yes. 

The Role of AI in SEO

[00:08:12] Crystal Waddell: So that was part one.

[00:08:13] Then part two. 

[00:08:14] I've seen memes like this, or just people making fun of it online. 

[00:08:18] Where, if you had a customer come into your brick and mortar store, and they asked a specific question about an auto part. 

[00:08:26] That you wouldn't go, here, let me give you the history of auto parts first.

[00:08:29] You know what I mean? So it seems like a lot of blogs go into that. Yeah. 

[00:08:33] Here is the background of the question that you asked. 

[00:08:37] But it's like really the search intent is they're just looking for that specific part. 

[00:08:40] So, even though you're writing content around it, would you recommend somebody go ahead and put that answer first?

[00:08:46] Or, how does that work with content? 

[00:08:48] Tom Winter: I would try to answer like As broad as possible. 

[00:08:52] Like not broad but answer the whole question that the person can have. 

[00:08:56] Because what Google will do, like it will find the proper place in your article and send the person straight into this piece.

[00:09:04] And from Google's perspective, what they want to give you an answer that straight away answers the question. 

[00:09:09] But if you want to get more information on this topic, because you found this article answering your question. You can actually scroll up or scroll down to read more about like related parts.

[00:09:19] So this is how it works. 

[00:09:21] If you're creating like 6, 000 word article, it doesn't mean that a reader will read the whole article. 

[00:09:26] Google will send the person straight into a piece that answers the question. 

[00:09:30] But still, unfortunately I would do it because this is how SERP results look. 

[00:09:34] If you don't believe me, go to any query, go to SERP results. And see like, first five positions and read them through. 

[00:09:41] See the structure, how they are built.

[00:09:43] If you want to do it differently, unfortunately, you will not be right. 

[00:09:47] Sorry this is how I treat it. Data always speaks. 

The Importance of Helpful and Valuable Content

[00:09:50] Crystal Waddell: Okay. In the spirit of this. Essentially what we're talking about is helpful content. 

[00:09:55] Valuable content. For users who are using Google. 

[00:09:58] How do we make content more helpful and valuable and show our expertise?

[00:10:04] Tom Winter: So from my perspective, there are two, like two parts of helpful content. 

[00:10:08] One is nailing the search intent. The other is adding additional value on top. 

[00:10:14] So when it goes to nailing the search intent, like I treat AI as my expert that will help me out to find the search intent and nail the search intent. 

[00:10:22] So let's say 60 percent of the article is something that you will also find or 70 even percent that you will also find in different search results. 

[00:10:32] Because this is the answer and the search intent behind the query that Google will understand. 

[00:10:37] But thanks to that we're talking to our customers. We have opinions. 

[00:10:41] We have like expertise that AI doesn't have. Because AI unfortunately doesn't talk to our customers.

[00:10:47] It doesn't know much about our product. About our services. 

[00:10:51] So we can add a lot of additional information. Helpful information on top of that. 

[00:10:56] If we don't agree with something, like I would add it on top. 

[00:10:59] Because that is making the content more helpful and better for the user. 

[00:11:04] It's a combination of these two things.

[00:11:06] And I like to use AI to help me with that because I feel that AI has superpowers. 

[00:11:12] Humans have superpowers. Let's combine them together. And let's create something helpful. 

[00:11:16] Crystal Waddell: I love that. And you said you use AI to help you determine search intent. 

[00:11:20] How do you do that? 

The Power of AI in Content Research

[00:11:21] Crystal Waddell: Is there a special formula for that?

[00:11:23] Tom Winter: It's all about adding context to AI. 

[00:11:26] Because right now, most of the people, how they treat AI, how they feel that AI works, they treat it as a search engine. 

[00:11:33] And you have to realize that AI is not a search engine. So if you go to chat GPT and you just ask them questions like write me an outline for this. Write me an article for that. 

[00:11:43] It will give you the best possible logical answer that it has, but it doesn't mean that it's based on the search intent.

[00:11:50] So if you change your prompt from write me an outline for this keyword. 

[00:11:56] To write me an outline for this keyword, but you know what? I know exactly what's the search intent because I know the outlines of my competition that is nailing the search intent and their top ten SERP results. 

[00:12:06] Here are the outlines of my competition.

[00:12:08] Can you take into account the whole context of that and give me an answer that is based on what I provided you with? 

[00:12:15] It will be far better. 

[00:12:16] This is how I treat AI, that it's one of the best tools to research things. 

[00:12:21] But based on the things that I will provide to AI. And this is, I think, the future of AI in not only in content marketing, but in any niche. 

[00:12:30] Like medical lawyers, like whatever you feel, we should find ways to give context to AI that it can give me answers based on that.

[00:12:39] So let's go with medical. As an example. 

[00:12:42] So if I would ask, I have these and these symptoms, these are most probable answers. 

[00:12:48] Which one of these is actually my disease? 

[00:12:51] This is far better prompt than just asking these are my symptoms, what do you think I have? 

[00:12:56] Crystal Waddell: Ah, I see. 

The Future of AI in Content Marketing

[00:12:58] Crystal Waddell: And I'm thinking that, like the release of Bing's chat function and chat GPT. 

[00:13:04] Like maybe those things like conflated. In some people's minds. That chat GPT was more of a search engine. 

[00:13:11] Versus a co creator.

[00:13:14] And so I've never thought about it like that, but it makes so much sense. 

[00:13:17] And one thing I've thought about before, too, is. If these large language models are modeling what they found on the internet. 

[00:13:24] And the internet data is either wrong or not very good, then their imitation of that is also going to be wrong and not very good.

[00:13:33] So I'm glad that you're saying that you should layer on that humanness, immediately. 

[00:13:38] As you're going through it, just to make sure that it makes sense for a person who's going to read it on the other side. 

[00:13:44] Tom Winter: And also categorize the knowledge that we have so far. The better the input is, the better the output is.

[00:13:49] And by input for me.

[00:13:51] When I'm running a prompt the in the ask part is 1%. I'm trying to provide as much contextual knowledge and as good knowledge as possible to AI. 

[00:14:01] At the same time limiting the number of things that I want from AI. Because AI is just like humans. 

[00:14:07] Let's say we want to write an article that is SEO optimized.

[00:14:11] What we do, we divide the whole process into parts. 

[00:14:15] First, we will create a brief, then brief is finished. We will write an article based on the brief. 

[00:14:20] The article is finished, we will optimize it for SEO. 

[00:14:23] The optimization is finished. 

[00:14:25] We will add internal links. Their internal links are finished. 

[00:14:29] So we, as humans, divide the whole process into pieces because if you want to eat an elephant, eat them in pieces.

[00:14:35] It's impossible to think about all the things at once. 

[00:14:38] Because our mind can't just grasp it. 

[00:14:40] And the same thing goes to AI. It works just the same. 

[00:14:43] We can really hate that sometimes AI doesn't give us the answer that we want. 

[00:14:48] Sometimes we just want too many things at once and AI like It doesn't know what to do.

[00:14:53] So basically, if you divide the task into pieces, it also is much easier for AI to grasp. 

The Role of AI in Business Operations

[00:14:59] Tom Winter: AI right now, like so GPT 4 Turbo, for example. Can take up to 300 pages of context. 

[00:15:06] But the problem is, and what they're not saying, I think it can't take half a page of instructions. 

[00:15:11] Because it loses its mind. I divide things into pieces.

[00:15:15] If you expect from AI to do this, that, and something else at the same time, it will not work like that, and it will not work for the next two years. 

[00:15:25] Crystal Waddell: Even though I don't put it into practice very well in this podcast, one thing I learned from teaching students with an autistic diagnosis here in the States is that you give one command at a time.

[00:15:36] Because you give that one command, everybody's focused on that one command. 

[00:15:40] And then you complete that task and then you move on to the next one. And we've talked a little bit on the show about having workflows. 

[00:15:47] And I think sometimes as humans, we take for granted the way that our mind thinks in our workflows.

[00:15:53] It's just like trying to train a staff member. You don't have a process or standard operating procedures list.

[00:16:01] It's you all of a sudden realize, Oh my gosh, if I didn't tell them this step and this step. So it's almost like you need to write down those steps first.

The Importance of Context in AI

[00:16:08] Crystal Waddell: Like you said, that was such a wonderful breakdown. And then go step by step with the tool that you're using so that you cover all your bases. 

[00:16:15] Tom Winter: Exactly. And that's like really hard to do. 

[00:16:17] Like when you're thinking about working with AI, like we work with content and to create one article, like using from scratch.

[00:16:24] So from the first keyword to writing the article, we use more or less 20 to 30 prompts like in it. 

[00:16:31] And the last prompt that we have at the end when I writing actually. 

[00:16:36] For every 3000 words that we get, we push in about 7, 000 words in prompt. So we push in like over twice as much in. 

[00:16:44] Then we are taking out, because it's all about giving context.

[00:16:46] A lot of people say Oh is hallucinating. Yes. It's hallucinating because you're not giving it context. This is the whole thing. 

[00:16:54] So give it all the information that it needs. If I ask you as a human or anybody else to write me an article on. Even within your niche. Of expertise. You will also hallucinate.

The Role of AI in SEO Optimization

[00:17:04] Tom Winter: If I ask you give me data for this and that, and I will tell you write it on a piece of paper don't use a computer, don't have access, you know the numbers, you read it a year ago, so you should remember them. 

[00:17:15] No you will not. 

[00:17:16] You need access to things, you will do the research, you will check the facts, and so on.

[00:17:21] We as humans, we also will hallucinate. 

[00:17:23] Crystal Waddell: So there's something you said in there that I think I want to pull out and talk about for a second because you said you put in 7, 000 words to get 3, 000 words out. 

[00:17:31] And so I wonder, do you think, people think, oh, I'm going to use this tool. It's going to be so much faster.

[00:17:37] That sounds in practice a little bit harder than maybe what is expected. 

[00:17:42] You know what I mean? Because it's oh, if I wrote 7, 000 words, why don't I just use that? 

[00:17:46] Tom Winter: So the whole thing, the whole idea behind the AI and any tool in the future. How I see how tools will simplify your lives. Is that you will not even feel that you're using AI.

[00:17:56] You would just grasp certain things, put them together and then click the button, like at the end. 

[00:18:00] Our customers don't know that like we push in so much data because all they have to know okay, the outline is ready. 

[00:18:07] We have the title, we have the description, we have the keywords. 

[00:18:10] And then they push the button like write an article using AI because we're doing all the matching and all the contextual part under the hood.

[00:18:20] It doesn't make sense from customer's perspective to know exactly how it works. 

[00:18:25] Because like we will do the hard work and like putting things together. 

[00:18:28] Because this is what AI does. It's a language model. So like it can compare language to each other. And build context for itself, like finishing with something like that is contextual.

[00:18:41] And that's why we can write an AI article that makes sense. 

[00:18:44] But the whole thing, like in my opinion, 90 percent of work is doing the research. 

[00:18:48] So like actually finding the data. Putting it together in something that makes sense. 

[00:18:53] And then providing like to the last AI agent, I would say the thing that it needs to write the article. 

[00:19:01] Like in a way that is digestible, not like pushing in 300 pages of okay, look at this data.

[00:19:08] The answer is somewhere there. So do something with that. 

[00:19:11] No, it will not work. 

[00:19:12] Crystal Waddell: So you're saying that your tool does a lot of these steps that seem overwhelming so that it is manageable by a person. 

[00:19:20] Tom Winter: Exactly. Exactly. So like we are able to, first of all, get the outline based on the SERP results.

[00:19:25] So like we're pushing in as much data about the SERP results and what ranks there about this specific search intent. 

[00:19:33] The same goes with keywords. Like we are taking keywords from different resources. And then we're looking at the outline that you created. 

[00:19:40] And we're finding the best matching keywords for this specific outline.

[00:19:44] We're also like clustering the keywords using AI because it's a language model. 

[00:19:48] It's like perfect with understanding the language. 

[00:19:50] And like finding resources about specific things that we have in the outline. 

[00:19:56] So we have a lot of context where it came from. Putting all these bits and pieces together.

[00:20:00] I'm not saying it's impossible in ChatGPT. 

[00:20:03] Definitely possible, but just if I would write the final prompt like in ChatGPT it would take me from probably four hours just to write even though that I know exactly how it's formatted. 

[00:20:13] I would never like to do it to be honest. 

[00:20:16] Crystal Waddell: So are there any other tools besides chat, GPT that you use?

The Future of AI in Business

[00:20:21] Tom Winter: I love data. Like at every single day I use Ah refs. Like I can spend hours there. 

[00:20:26] This is like the biggest problem of Ahrefs, to be honest, at the same time. But I still love it because I can spend time there. I live in data. 

[00:20:34] But I use Grammarly. I use a lot of additional tools to help me with writing.

[00:20:40] But definitely, ChatGPT is my best friend. 

[00:20:43] That always wants to talk to me and is always happy to answer my questions. 

[00:20:46] And also from the perspective of SEOWind, we're using GPT through API all the time. 

[00:20:53] For helping us with making decisions. Because it can read much faster than humans do.

[00:20:59] Crystal Waddell: Is SEO Wind in essence a specific GPT? Because I've heard about people creating GPTs. 

[00:21:06] And because I happen to use a different Writer software or whatever. 

[00:21:12] There's not an option to create gpts. And so I wondered if you could tell us what gpts are. 

[00:21:17] Tom Winter: First of all We have to differentiate like gpt 4.

[00:21:20] 0 turbo gpt 4 gpt 3. 5 and turbo. Like from gpts. 

[00:21:26] Like one is a model.

[00:21:28] That we're using like AI model so GPT 4 turbo or GPT 4 it's a model that we're using. 

[00:21:34] For example in chat GPT. This is the model. 

[00:21:37] GPTs are like a way to train, I would say. 

[00:21:42] like developers will kill me for that. 

[00:21:44] But train GPT in a way that it will help you out in the specific tasks that you want to do.

[00:21:50] So you can upload a lot of knowledge, like additional knowledge. 

[00:21:53] And based on the knowledge of GPT that you can upload, like really simply by drag and drop, like clicking and writing simple using simple language, not programming language, you can train the model in the way you want it to.

[00:22:07] respond. So this is the biggest difference. You can create like GPT for a specific task. 

[00:22:14] So in my opinion, GPTs are perfect for simple tasks that are repetitive. 

[00:22:19] That you can add information about it. So for example, if I would use GPTs. 

[00:22:25] I would use them for writing LinkedIn posts for me because I have a method of writing LinkedIn posts my specific format.

[00:22:32] I can upload to GPT all my previous posts. 

[00:22:36] So GPT knows how I write And I don't have to write it every single time because GPT will be used as vectorized database. 

[00:22:45] We'll go through the data that I provided at the beginning so it has the information about how I write LinkedIn posts. 

[00:22:51] And it will help me out with this specific task of writing LinkedIn posts.

[00:22:54] I will not have to repeat every single time to GPT, my GPT, how I do it. 

[00:22:59] Because it's already it's there. So it understands it. But when it goes to like more complicated tasks like. Writing a whole article. Unfortunately, I tested it out. 

[00:23:09] GPTs are not the best way to do it. Because these tasks are too complicated.

[00:23:14] It's as I mentioned, like there's multiple steps. That you have to go through. 

[00:23:17] And for example, scraping 10 pages. And finding H2s. So the outlines of a competitor pages. 

[00:23:25] It's too complicated for GPT. 

[00:23:28] You shouldn't use LLMs. So AI. For things that don't make sense. 

[00:23:34] For example, for me, parsing data. As an example.

[00:23:37] If I want to extract the outline of a page, I can use normal programming. 

[00:23:41] And it's far better because it's far more predictable. 

[00:23:44] GPT, with extracting an outline from a specific page. Is far worse, I'll be honest. 

[00:23:49] I've tried it, like, all the queries that have only one answer, GPT, and it's not creative. 

[00:23:56] Like so mathematical queries, for example. If you have like really difficult mathematical tasks with single answer. 

[00:24:03] Chat GPT or GPTs will not be the best solution, like using normal programming or a calculator will be just better. 

[00:24:10] Crystal Waddell: Gotcha. 

The Importance of Content in Business

[00:24:11] Crystal Waddell: So sometimes it's just not necessary. And so that's what I was going to say. 

[00:24:13] Like for some businesses, if you're a small business, local business, brick and mortar. 

[00:24:19] And you've never really invested in like SEO tactics or a strategy. 

[00:24:24] What types of businesses maybe don't need this right now? 

[00:24:28] Or do all be all businesses need content right now?

[00:24:31] Tom Winter: I would say all businesses need content. 

[00:24:34] And we can work with AI with any repetitive tasks that we do. 

[00:24:38] And it's very good, but like we will have to train an agent, like an AI agent, or find a tool that specializes in a specific task. 

[00:24:46] That will help us out with this specific task. So this is how I look at it.

[00:24:51] So every single repetitive task that you do. 

[00:24:54] In content writing or in just company I think it can be done with AI. 

[00:24:59] Combination of AI and humans. So I would say a year ago, we were talking about 10x developers. This is a term that was there. 

[00:25:05] So like a person that can do a lot more than anybody else because of their knowledge.

[00:25:10] Right now, because of AI, I feel that we can say About any niche, like 10x person, 10x content marketer, 10x salesperson, and so on. 

[00:25:19] Because using AI, we can employ a lot of additional agents. 

[00:25:23] Like they're my teammates, to be honest, like I'm working with them directly. And because of that, I can be much, much, much more productive.

[00:25:32] Crystal Waddell: And I've talked before about, giving everything that we use a job. 

[00:25:35] Whether it's a social media channel or a page on our website. 

[00:25:38] And so you saying that just aligns with that idea of okay, now it's time that you utilize these AI tools and large language models and assign them a job to do in your business.

[00:25:50] What do you think is the future of, these tools and content online and getting clicks from that content? 

[00:25:59] Tom Winter: So I believe like I'm a strong believer in something that I called Cyborg Method. 

[00:26:02] So a human working with AI directly together. 

[00:26:05] But I still believe that humans can add a lot of value into that.

[00:26:09] Yeah, I feel that the articles will be better because of that. 

[00:26:12] Because really, if you feel that you can compete with AI in sense of research so going through big amounts of data just to find things that matter. 

[00:26:21] I can't like something that takes AI, like reading through 100 pages, it takes AI a couple of seconds.

[00:26:27] It would take me half a day. And especially if I have to memorize the whole hundred pages just to find the bits and pieces that I want to use. That will take me like even more. 

[00:26:35] Optimize the things that matter, like with AI. 

[00:26:39] At the same time, be in control. You're the specialist, you're the special matter expert.

[00:26:43] AI is a tool, at the moment it's a tool, so use the tool for your own benefit. 

[00:26:48] And definitely, I think it will help out with whole content. 

[00:26:52] At the moment, what I can see companies that are using AI, like in a smart way. 

[00:26:57] Like really smart way, they're gaining a lot of traffic because they're creating helpful content.

[00:27:02] And you have to distinguish creating helpful content from spam. 

[00:27:05] When you're going to LinkedIn, you can see Oh, AI content is spam. It's empty. It's shallow. Like it doesn't add any value and so on. 

[00:27:12] There's like plenty of people saying that. Do I agree with them? Yes, I do. 

[00:27:16] I do agree with them because you haven't seen tools that did the research part.

[00:27:22] As I said in the beginning, like the research part is the hardest thing. 

[00:27:25] So if somebody is using a tool that uses GPT, chat GPT as a source of data. 

[00:27:32] As a search engine. 

[00:27:33] And just write simple, give me this and that. 

[00:27:35] It will be spam. I did a huge test with chat GPT where I like use dictionary of keywords, about 1000 keywords. 

[00:27:42] I wrote 1000 articles. I published it somewhere. I didn't want to publish it on my page, to be honest.

[00:27:47] And Google said hello, Tom unfortunately that's spam. So like it removed it from the internet. 

[00:27:52] And it's okay. Actually, I agree with you, Google, because I didn't do the research. I used chat GPT, like from as a search engine, like it wrote everything for me.

[00:28:02] Like it was logical, maybe? But it was spam. Let's be honest. Like it was spam. 

[00:28:08] So we did the same thing like with SEOwind.

[00:28:11] When we went through the whole process of research. 

[00:28:13] Finding the search intent, like doing a lot of additional things. 

[00:28:17] To prepare for writing a proper article. It looked totally different.

[00:28:20] So you have to nail the search intent. You have to create helpful content. With a human, with AI. It doesn't matter like however you want. But create helpful content that brings value. 

[00:28:32] Crystal Waddell: That's awesome. 

[00:28:33] Okay. So here's a question I really think will benefit the person on the other side of this podcast right now. What seo task do you think that someone could do?

[00:28:43] Today. That would have the most impact. On their business. In terms of visibility or reaching business goals? 

[00:28:51] What one thing? 

[00:28:52] Tom Winter: One thing, that's a tough question. 

[00:28:54] Because like the SEO, I think is like multiple things that adds to each other. 

[00:28:58] Okay. But if I would say one thing I would say optimizing old content.

[00:29:02] Because this is one thing that people hate to do. 

[00:29:05] Because once it's published, like it's publish and never go back. 

[00:29:09] This is how we treat content. And if we want to optimize a specific content. 

[00:29:14] To do it, we actually have to start from scratch because first we have to define what's the search intent.

[00:29:18] So we have to prepare. exactly how we would prepare to writing new content. 

[00:29:23] Because we exactly we need to write a whole brief to understand: what do we need to add to our current content? 

[00:29:29] So i'm seeing that if you're already ranking and you will optimize this way. 

[00:29:34] Like so creating a new brief. 

[00:29:36] Writing an article and combining the article together with what you have already in that right now. 

[00:29:40] So especially for the keywords which are in striking distance. 

[00:29:43] Like positions 12, 13. 

[00:29:45] Which is your, you're almost in top 10.

[00:29:47] You can actually move these keywords into top 10. 

[00:29:50] And bring a lot of traffic. It's the easiest way to do it. 

[00:29:54] But it's like definitely very difficult from human's perspective to do it. 

[00:29:59] Because when you're looking at the new article or old article, the question is what should I add here? 

[00:30:04] And that's a tough question.

[00:30:05] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, for sure. I appreciate that. I love it when we can just take away one big thing from the episode. 

[00:30:12] And it's okay, even if I just chose one article that I've already written on my site to optimize it for what's happening right now. 

[00:30:19] I think that's a huge takeaway and a big win for all of us.

Conclusion and Contact Information

[00:30:23] Crystal Waddell: If anybody's listening right now and says, Oh, my gosh, I want to know more about this tool that Tom's created. 

[00:30:29] Can you tell our friend on the other side of the speakers how they can get in contact with you and SEOwind? 

[00:30:35] Tom Winter: So either find me on LinkedIn. So my name is Tom Winter. 

[00:30:39] And I'm the founder of SEOwind.Io. 

[00:30:41] Or go to the website, seowind. io. 

[00:30:43] And chat with us. Like I'm always helpful. 

[00:30:46] If you want to ask me any questions, even not related to seowind, please let me know. 

[00:30:51] I'll be happy to help you out. 

[00:30:52] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, you are awesome to chat with. I'm just I love how you think about SEO and AI. 

[00:30:57] And the future of things just working together.

[00:30:59] It's just such a fresh perspective. And you're just very open and honest about how you think things are going to work together. So I appreciate that. And I'm so grateful that you came on a simple and smart SEO show. 

[00:31:11] Tom Winter: Thanks a lot. It was really great to talk to you. All right. 

[00:31:14] Crystal Waddell: We'll see you next time.

[00:31:15] Tom Winter: Cheers. Bye.