This transcript was machine generated and lightly edited by a human. Please excuse any errors!

[00:00:00] Starting February 1st, Google and Yahoo are going to be implementing more stricter spam prevention measures to make sure that their customers are protected from spammers, spammers who send out spammy email. 

[00:00:12] So it's not a big thing that we have to like panic and freak out about. 

[00:00:16] But it's still something that we have to be aware so that we can prepare our business similar to when Instagram changes their algorithm, you just adjust, right?

[00:00:23] So just see it as that way. 

[00:00:25] And it's the first time that Yahoo and Google are going to make these changes to their email algorithm rules in 20 years. 

[00:00:32] So it is a big change.

[00:00:33] 

Introduction and Welcoming the Guest

[00:00:56] Crystal Waddell: Welcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast.

[00:01:00] I'm so excited to be here with Kris Daria, who is a Klaviyo expert. 

[00:01:04] And Kris, our paths crossed like probably in 2020. 

[00:01:08] In the time that was clubhouse, and the big clubhouse boom. 

[00:01:12] Kris Daria: Oh yes, I remember. Yes. 

[00:01:15] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. 

Discovering Klaviyo Experts

[00:01:15] Crystal Waddell: So that's when I discovered that there were such things as Klaviyo experts. 

[00:01:19] And you were the one that kind of rose above all others.

[00:01:22] So I'm super excited to have you here. 

[00:01:24] Thanks for coming on the show. 

[00:01:26] Kris Daria: Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to be here, Crystal, and chat with you about Klaviyo and email. 

[00:01:31] I know not a lot of people see email as this fun thing. 

[00:01:34] Because I know it could be, intimidating. 

Making Email Marketing Approachable

[00:01:36] Kris Daria: But I'm here to just, make email marketing more friendly and approachable.

[00:01:39] So that's all what I'm all about. 

[00:01:41] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. 

The Importance of Consistency in Email Marketing

[00:01:41] Crystal Waddell: I'm glad you're here too, because in 2024, one of my goals is to become more consistent with my email marketing. 

[00:01:49] And I use Klaviyo. I know I'm not using it to its full potential. 

The Role of SEO in Email Marketing

[00:01:53] Crystal Waddell: But we've talked before on the show about how we use sEO. 

[00:01:57] Or, the whole point of optimizing our websites is to get people to come to our website. 

[00:02:02] And then get on our email list.

[00:02:04] But, when you're talking about SEO. 

[00:02:07] There's so many different factors there. 

[00:02:09] That we spend so much time talking about optimization that it's, okay. 

[00:02:13] But then what? 

[00:02:15] And so that's what I was hoping that we could talk 

[00:02:17] Kris Daria: about today. Yeah. 

[00:02:18] It's so true. We put so much effort into the magnetizing part of our marketing.

[00:02:23] So like the SEO, the social media and all that.

[00:02:26] And then beyond that. 

[00:02:28] What's also equally as important is what happens to your customers or your visitors after they leave your website. 

[00:02:35] The only way for them to come back for you to retarget them and come back. 

[00:02:39] One of the cheapest ways is through email marketing.

[00:02:42] When somebody joins your list, you can easily retarget them and send them a message. 

[00:02:46] You can do this manually or automatically. 

[00:02:48] We'll get into that, but I think email marketing it's just going to add more fuel to the fire. 

[00:02:52] To help your customers really continue that engagement beyond your website.

[00:02:57] Crystal Waddell: Absolutely. 

[00:02:58] Okay. 

The Journey to Becoming a Klaviyo Expert

[00:02:58] Crystal Waddell: Can you tell us just a little bit about your story and how you became a Klaviyo expert? 

[00:03:03] And, to now, in the beginning of 2024? 

[00:03:07] Kris Daria: Yeah, sure. 

[00:03:08] So, I was an e commerce marketer. 

[00:03:09] I started my career working for big beauty brands. 

[00:03:13] Retail brands in the digital marketing space. 

[00:03:15] Back in 2010 when Facebook just started, becoming a thing. 

[00:03:19] And people wanted to hire social media people to manage their Facebook pages.

[00:03:23] And so I grew my skills around e commerce. 

[00:03:26] Because I wanted to really understand the relationship between the marketing. 

[00:03:31] But also the customer beyond just, the advertising space. 

[00:03:34] When I got into the e commerce space, one of the responsibilities I had was email marketing. 

[00:03:41] And among, many other things you need to do to manage an e com store, an online store.

[00:03:45] I was managing a seven figure beauty retail brand and email marketing was generating 25 percent of our sales. 

[00:03:52] Just from email marketing. 

[00:03:53] But then when 2020 arrived at that time. 

[00:03:56] I had just had my son. He was one year old. 

[00:03:59] I was in my maternity leave from work. 

The Shift from Corporate to Entrepreneurship

[00:04:01] Kris Daria: And I had the option to either go back to my corporate job. 

[00:04:05] Or start working for myself. 

[00:04:07] And start, using the skills I had. To help people during the pandemic. 

[00:04:12] When a lot of businesses had to shut down their front end.

[00:04:16] Their physical brick and mortar stores and start selling online. 

[00:04:18] And I saw the opportunity of helping with the email marketing part. 

[00:04:22] There are already a lot of social media experts out there. But not a lot of people were specializing in email marketing for e commerce. 

[00:04:29] And at the time people were creating their own Shopify store. Growing their Shopify store.

[00:04:34] And I came upon Klaviyo because I knew that Klaviyo and Shopify were just BFFs. 

[00:04:40] So that's when I started to really specialize in Klaviyo and specifically building automated email sequences or email flows in Klaviyo. 

The Evolution of Services Offered

[00:04:50] Kris Daria: Around that time in 2020, I started working with my clients one on one. I started doing, VIP days where I would build their whole entire email ecosystem from start to finish in a day.

[00:05:00] And then that evolved over time. 

[00:05:02] I do workshops, trainings. 

[00:05:04] I am a guest email marketing coach in other people's e commerce programs. 

[00:05:09] Now, my main focus is still email automations. 

[00:05:12] And I do that with doing full flow setup. 

[00:05:15] So one on one services. Or through my group program, my Flow Set Up Toolkit.

[00:05:20] So that's how I serve my customers right now. 

[00:05:23] And it's still going to evolution. It's still an unraveling. 

[00:05:25] So it's just interesting to see, whenever I meet my clients. 

[00:05:28] What do they need help with? 

[00:05:29] And how can I help them with the services and offers that I have? 

Learning from Bigger Brands

[00:05:32] Crystal Waddell: Yeah You're right about just that resource for e commerce and so i'm curious, you know because you work with such a big brand You know working with smaller e commerce stores.

[00:05:42] I was just wondering what are the bigger brands doing? 

[00:05:44] What are some things that smaller brands could take away from the bigger brands and apply it to their email, activities 

[00:05:51] Kris Daria: as well. 

[00:05:52] It's interesting because I having worked as an email marketer for bigger brands. 

[00:05:57] What I've noticed is that bigger brands have a more commercial, transactional relationship with their subscribers. 

[00:06:04] Whereas when I started working with smaller brands. 

[00:06:08] Smaller, small business owners, founders. 

[00:06:11] What helps them is actually learning from the bigger brands. 

The Importance of Personalization in Emails

[00:06:15] Kris Daria: And learning how to send out emails that look like they come from a friend and not like a glossy magazine ad. 

[00:06:21] Because when I was in a bigger, when I was working for bigger brands, I would send out emails that were more transactional. They didn't, they weren't really personal.

[00:06:28] Because we can afford to be like that because we had the visibility we had already the connections and you were already present in stores. 

[00:06:34] And so our awareness were and our reach was already high. 

[00:06:37] But as a small brand and a small business owner, you need to stand out from the inbox. And the way to do that now, I believe is to make your emails look like they come from a friend, make them look personal. 

[00:06:46] Make them less, transactional and, spammy. 

[00:06:50] And focus on that so that you can nurture that relationship with your customers so that Your subscribers, they look forward to reading your emails whenever they see your brand pop in the inbox.

[00:06:59] Most big brands that I see now, they send out emails that, like I said, look like glossy magazine ads. 

[00:07:06] And people, they don't want to read that. They just gloss over it. They ignore it most of the time and once in a while when there's like that big black friday deal They'll open it, right? 

[00:07:14] But most of the time they ignore it because they always know it's the same promo on rotation all the time right? 

[00:07:18] So when I work with my clients now with my with the clients who are you know, small to medium sized brands.

[00:07:25] I teach them how to unlearn from that. 

[00:07:27] How to how to make their emails look more friendly more personal or more approachable. 

[00:07:32] So that people will continue want to read and click and engage with their emails.

The Ideal Cadence for Email Marketing

[00:07:36] Crystal Waddell: Is there a certain cadence of email that you would recommend?

[00:07:40] Because some e commerce brands will send out multiple emails a week. 

[00:07:45] I learned email marketing from digital marketers who were selling courses or that type of thing.

[00:07:51] So I come from that side of things. And then to marry that with best practices for e commerce, it's like, how does that work? 

[00:07:58] Is there a cadence that really makes sense for e commerce in general, or does it just depend on the brand? 

[00:08:04] Kris Daria: Yeah. So I recommend to practice sending out a consistent email newsletter weekly to your audience. 

[00:08:11] Because what I've noticed is when clients only send out one email a month, they tend to stuff so much information in that one email that it gets, it starts to look like a pizza.

[00:08:21] And most times their subscribers, they forget if you only send one email a month, you're only getting That touch point once a month with your subscribers. 

[00:08:29] So they forget that they even opted into your list. 

[00:08:31] So they might unsubscribe or spam mark you as spam and you know mistakenly because they don't remember having joined your list. 

[00:08:38] So I recommend keeping up with a consistent Whatever Cadence you can keep up with consistently. 

[00:08:44] So if you can start only if you're just new to email marketing and one email a week is sounds too frequent for you, right now at this time, start with one email every two weeks. 

[00:08:54] And then slowly you can build the muscle to practice sending another email every other week.

[00:08:58] So then eventually you'll get to one email a week. 

[00:09:01] And then as you grow and you get more familiar with your email marketing, you can start to practice segmentation. 

[00:09:08] And include that's what bigger brands do. They have the ability to really understand all the customer data that they have in their database. 

[00:09:16] And use segmentation features to send out more targeted emails to a smaller grouping of their audience.

[00:09:22] So that second email, if you start to send out a second email in the week, I start recommending clients to see who can we target more specifically? 

[00:09:30] Could it be our VIP clients?

[00:09:31] Or if I'm promoting something that's dedicated for menswear. 

[00:09:35] Maybe if I just target the men in my audience, I'll send out that targeted email as a second set. 

[00:09:40] Things like that, of that nature. Practice sending weeklies and what I would recommend you build up to. 

[00:09:45] Crystal Waddell: One thing I love about Klaviyo is they have a lot of nice checklists. 

[00:09:49] Like getting started, create this list, create this flow. 

Understanding Campaigns and Flows in Klaviyo

[00:09:52] Crystal Waddell: And before I heard you speak in clubhouse, I had never heard of a flow. 

[00:09:59] And, and then I grasped the concept of an email campaign, but could you break it down? 

[00:10:04] Like the differences of campaigns and flows and what you think people should start with if they are ready to.

[00:10:12] Maybe do both, or just one, or just your thoughts on that. 

[00:10:16] Kris Daria: Sure, so I, what I was just talking about were in Klaviyo they recognize them as email campaigns. 

[00:10:22] So email that you send one to many. 

[00:10:24] Email flows, or email sequences, automations. 

[00:10:27] Those happen dynamically on a one to one level. 

[00:10:30] So what happens is you can have an email, an automated email go out to a specific customer whenever they take an action on your website.

[00:10:40] So whenever they join your email list, you can send a welcome flow. 

[00:10:44] To introduce them to your brand and get them to make their first purchase. 

[00:10:48] Whenever they abandoned their cart, you can set up an automated cart abandoned reminder flow in Klaviyo to remind them, Hey, this is what you left in the shop.

[00:10:56] Feel free to come back. 

[00:10:57] You can have a dedicated email sequence answering some questions, some objections to really convince that person who was on the fence to buy, right? 

[00:11:05] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, that's a great idea. 

[00:11:07] I have to interject there really quick because especially for people who are selling more expensive products. 

[00:11:12] Or products that take a little effort on the part of the customer.

[00:11:16] Like for me, I make these giant photo collages for athletes. 

[00:11:19] At collagewood. com. 

[00:11:21] That takes some preparation for the person on the other side.

[00:11:25] And so I'm realizing as you said this that would be a great welcome flow. 

[00:11:29] Just to say, Hey, you signed up for the coupon or, even in some retargeting type stuff, just explaining how the process works.

[00:11:36] That's another great opportunity to do that. 

[00:11:39] Kris Daria: Exactly, and share also like testimonials from other customers who've enjoyed using your products. 

[00:11:45] Highlight that in your automation so that way they feel like, oh, if I see other people who are enjoying your products, I might feel more inclined to buy. 

[00:11:53] And even beyond when people come to your store and completes their purchase, you can continue having an automated post purchase sequence, post purchase flow. 

[00:12:03] To continue nurturing those customers, you can have it really more personalized and targeted for your customers.

[00:12:09] New customers who buy my product for the first time. 

[00:12:12] I'm going to send out a sequence that explains to them how to use this product. 

[00:12:17] And eventually cross sell them into trying other product categories. 

[00:12:20] And if it's a returning customer, you can say send out a personalized email that says, thank you for coming again, we value your loyalty. 

[00:12:28] And maybe send them an invitation to join your loyalty program. 

[00:12:32] Because at this point, you know that they like your product They came back many times. 

[00:12:36] There's so many things you can do to personalize the customer journey from beginning to end. 

[00:12:41] And this is why I love Klaviyo because not only it's designed for e commerce brands. 

[00:12:46] Not only does it have advanced segmentation features, but it has that dynamic email automation capabilities for you to personalize the customer journey and send out more targeted, more personal emails in that way.

[00:12:58] Crystal Waddell: So are you saying that it's important to map out the customer journey first before you start creating the emails? 

[00:13:07] Kris Daria: Oh yes. I recommend you start at the beginning. 

[00:13:09] When someone just joins your list. So when somebody just joins your list, they're brand new to your products, your brand. 

[00:13:16] They've never tried your products before, have a welcome sequence that teaches them about your products. 

[00:13:23] So start from the beginning. 

[00:13:24] And then, having that red carpet rollout almost, to welcome them into the community. 

[00:13:29] That's how you, and it could be, there's little things you can do to make your emails Sound personal too.

[00:13:34] It's like having, a photo of yourself. 

[00:13:36] A photo of your face at the bottom of your emails with your signature. 

[00:13:39] Adding, a personal like PS at the bottom. 

[00:13:42] Asking them questions to get them to reply to your emails. 

[00:13:45] To make it seem like they're having that one on one conversation with you, the founder. 

[00:13:48] The owner of the brand.

[00:13:50] Little touches like that is. something that I like to teach to my clients as they build and I set up their email flow so that way. 

[00:13:56] It's not just like an automated computer sending out emails. It's really like a full, a friendly, email automation sequence that welcomes their customers and that nurtures their customers along the journey.

[00:14:06] So thinking about the customer journey in that way helps it feel more approachable and less techie and overwhelming sometimes. Yeah. 

[00:14:13] Crystal Waddell: And that's the problem I've had with welcome series for e commerce. 

[00:14:17] Because I get it. 

[00:14:18] You're like course creators or whatever, it's okay, we want you to buy this digital course.

[00:14:21] And there's all these different, emails. 

[00:14:25] But for e commerce, I felt like it's not necessarily that it's just transactional, but people, a lot of times seem like they want to get in, they want their coupon or whatever. And then they want to make their purchase.

[00:14:37] But it feels, I don't know, like it just feels disjointed in a way, because the way that some people want to shop versus me wanting to have a conversation, a long conversation with them.

[00:14:49] And they're like, I just want my thing. So I can, move on with my life. 

[00:14:52] Trying to find the balance there, I felt has been difficult with e commerce. And that's why I've shied away from a welcome series. 

[00:14:59] But hearing you say this, I'm like, okay. 

[00:15:01] There's definitely ways that I could add value to the email versus just one more thing they have to look at. 

The Power of Personal Stories in Email Marketing

[00:15:09] Kris Daria: One of the things that could be interesting for your welcome sequence also in specific, like specific to Collage and Wood is like. 

[00:15:15] Telling about your story. Like, how did you get inspired to start selling these products, start creating these products, what got you into your creating your business. 

[00:15:23] A lot of people they don't recognize that there's a real human behind the brand. And so giving them a glimpse of how you got started can be inspiring in some way. 

[00:15:31] And when people are shopping nowadays, especially after the pandemic, they're starting to look at, and they want to look for brands to support who align with their values.

[00:15:39] And if they can see that there's a real human behind the brand who believes in the same thing as me. 

[00:15:44] Who values the same thing as me. Like they'll start to build that affinity and that work connection with your products. And that'll Bring them in for the long haul and not just that one time purchase.

[00:15:53] I feel like that's what I hear with my clients at least. 

[00:15:56] Crystal Waddell: I 100 percent agree. And one of my favorite episodes from last year was with Emma Boshart. 

[00:16:02] And she does a lot of brand stories. And storytelling. And, connecting those things, is so important.

[00:16:09] There's been some emails that I've written that got a really great response. 

[00:16:13] But I actually felt very vulnerable after I sent it.

[00:16:16] And they were so personal. 

[00:16:18] That I actually had people email me back and say, did you mean to send this to me? 

[00:16:22] I sell to sports moms. 

[00:16:23] And so my son had an incident. 

[00:16:26] And had said he wanted to quit. And so the email that I sent to them was, Hey, should I let Asher quit this sport? 

[00:16:34] And I was telling them what happened. 

[00:16:35] And, how I felt about, it was very heartfelt. It was very genuine. And I almost felt bad because so many people responded back. 

[00:16:43] Like I didn't have the capacity to respond to everyone. And so I felt Oh gosh, that really seemed like a one to one email. 

[00:16:52] So it's like, how do you balance having that connection with also having, the capacity to respond to 200 or 500 or a thousand. 

[00:17:02] Kris Daria: Yeah, that's something definitely you know Maybe not every email you want to ask for reply. 

[00:17:06] If you're getting that many and it's out of your capacity Like definitely follow that maybe one thing that I can recommend For this instance is if you feel like you're getting a lot of replies and it's like you can't answer everyone maybe direct them like I would love to hear your opinion.

[00:17:21] Leave a comment on my Instagram post or on my Facebook post or somewhere where they, you can capture those responses. 

[00:17:27] And then in the next email, you can be like, thank you for sharing all your replies. I really touched my heart. 

[00:17:32] That could be a way for you to manage that. But the act of just replying back to the email, I don't know if you know this, but it actually helps with your deliverability.

[00:17:40] So you do want to get replies back. 

[00:17:42] Because when people reply back, Google, Yahoo, Hotmail, those inbox providers.

[00:17:48] They recognize that, Oh, Crystal is sending emails that people engage with. 

[00:17:51] We're going to make sure that her emails land in the inbox because it's relevant to our customers. 

[00:17:56] So the fact that they're replying back to you is going to help you with your deliverability and avoid the spam folder, really, over time.

[00:18:04] Crystal Waddell: Well, that's a great insight. 

The Impact of New Email Rules on Deliverability

[00:18:06] Crystal Waddell: And especially with the changes that are coming up with email starting on February 1st. 

[00:18:13] I thought maybe you could share some insight on what these new rules are going to mean for email and email 

[00:18:21] Kris Daria: deliverability. 

[00:18:22] Yeah, like I'm not an email deliverability expert, but I can definitely talk about, some of the things that are happening. 

[00:18:27] Because not a lot of people are talking about it. Or are even aware.

[00:18:30] And starting February 1st, Google and Yahoo are going to be implementing more more stricter spam prevention measures. 

[00:18:37] To make sure that their customers, their users are protected from spammers who send out spammy email. 

[00:18:43] So it's not that it's not a big thing that we have to like panic and freak out about. 

[00:18:48] But it's still something that we have to be aware so that we can prepare our business, similar to when.

[00:18:53] Instagram changes their algorithm, you just adjust, right? 

[00:18:56] So just see it as that way. 

[00:18:57] And it's the first time that Yahoo and Google are going to make these changes to their email algorithm rules in 20 years. 

[00:19:04] So it is a big change. 

[00:19:06] There are just a few practices that easy practices that we can put in place. 

[00:19:10] Or that, you may already be doing. 

[00:19:11] To start, preparing your business for that.

[00:19:14] For those of you who are just starting out with their business and starting out with sending emails. 

[00:19:17] Sometimes they collect emails at a fair and then they send out emails from their own personal Gmail accounts, right? 

[00:19:22] And they put all the emails in bcc. 

[00:19:24] That's something you want to avoid doing moving forward.

[00:19:27] Avoid sending emails from your personal Hotmail or Gmail account. 

[00:19:30] It's important that you start signing up for a professional domain like collagewood. com like yourbrand. com. 

[00:19:37] And start sending out emails to your subscriber list using professional tools. 

[00:19:40] Like, Klaviyo for example. 

[00:19:42] And then also continue capturing people's explicit consent before emailing them. 

[00:19:47] Because you don't want your emails being marked as spam, right?

[00:19:50] So you want to send out emails to people who agreed to receive your Marketing promotions. 

[00:19:55] There are some technical things that are more on your email service provider side to be adjusted. 

[00:20:01] So every email service provider, like MailChimp, Klaviyo, OmniSend. They have their own settings that they'll work around that. 

[00:20:07] So for example, making sure that when people click unsubscribe, it's a one click to unsubscribe. 

[00:20:12] No longer it's Enter your email address to unsubscribe or Make sure you save your preferences on these lists. 

[00:20:18] Like you want to make sure that people Have to click only one time to unsubscribe. 

[00:20:23] And it unsubscribes from everything and that's something that's more on the ESP's responsibility.

[00:20:28] You want to also make sure that you're cleaning out your list. 

Avoiding the Spam Folder and Maintaining Sender Reputation

[00:20:31] Kris Daria: Even before these changes came into place, I was always telling my clients clean out your list. 

[00:20:34] Because over time you may have acquired, a thousand, five thousand people. 

[00:20:39] But half of them stopped opening your emails.

[00:20:41] A lot of my clients don't realize that they have a lot of unengaged contacts on their list that no longer interact with their emails. 

[00:20:48] So it's important that you clear them out. 

[00:20:50] Because that's going to hurt your deliverability. If Google, Yahoo, Hotmail, they see that, Crystal is sending out emails. 

[00:20:56] But only half of her subscribers are opening them, then we're going to put her into the spam folder.

[00:21:01] So you want to actually make sure you get rid of that dead weight, because not only will it save you on email costs, it's going to make sure that your sender reputation is maintained. 

[00:21:11] And so yeah, there's different email technical things like having a branded domain. 

[00:21:15] To better control your own sender reputation.

[00:21:18] There's some things that you need to adjust in your root domain settings. 

[00:21:21] To make sure that You're preventing spammers from pretending that they're sending emails from you. 

[00:21:26] So that's like a new Requirement that you'll need to make at your web hosting level. 

[00:21:30] That i'm not, technically i'm not really super knowledgeable about that.

[00:21:34] But yeah, that is something you do have to do and I recommend just going to your esp's website to find the checklists. 

[00:21:40] Or resources that will guide you in Implementing these changes so that way you're prepared. 

[00:21:45] And there's one last resource that I recommend that everybody joins. 

[00:21:49] It's this deliverability webinar and training from Cheryl Rerick. 

[00:21:52] Shout out to her because she's another email marketing expert who really specializes in deliverability. 

[00:21:58] More than I can ever cover this. 

[00:21:59] So this is something that I think there's a free training I think that she provides. 

[00:22:03] Where she delivers much more valuable insights and helpful resources around preparing your business for these changes to come.

[00:22:10] Yeah. 

[00:22:10] Crystal Waddell: Wow. That is awesome. We'll definitely link to that. In the show notes. 

[00:22:14] I was thinking about going back to the spam folder and avoiding the spam folder. 

[00:22:19] I've heard that there's different words that you want to avoid using in your email. 

[00:22:23] Is that true that there's certain words that kind of flag the system?

[00:22:28] Kris Daria: Yeah you really do want to avoid putting in your subject line certain words like free! 

Avoiding Spam Words in Email Subject Lines

[00:22:33] Kris Daria: Or, having all capitals.

[00:22:35] I can't remember from the top of my mind, but there's if you Google like spam words to avoid. 

[00:22:40] For sure you're going to find a list of Words you want to avoid using in your subject line. 

[00:22:45] Some of the things that I do recommend. 

Designing Effective Emails: Balance of Images and Text

[00:22:47] Kris Daria: A lot of clients when I start working with them, they spend a lot of time in canva designing all these pretty emails. 

[00:22:53] But what I one thing that I like to say to my clients is pretty emails don't pay the bills.

[00:22:57] Because What really matters is that you have a combination, a melange of like images and text and links to give people the chance to interact with your email. 

[00:23:06] Because nowadays a lot of people, they have inbox tools to prevent images from being generated when they open their emails.

[00:23:14] So if your content is in images, most likely people are not even going to be able to read your emails. They're going to be able, they're not going to be able to see the info or about that promotion or that new product. 

[00:23:24] So it's important that you do have images, but that you add text blocks. 

Utilizing Prebuilt Email Templates

[00:23:27] Kris Daria: In Klaviyo, you do have a lot of free email, free prebuilt email templates.

[00:23:32] That you can start off with to make sure that your emails are designed in that way.

[00:23:36] That way you prevent the spam folder and it makes your email look more mobile friendly. 

[00:23:41] People can read it on their mobile device, which is what most people use. 

[00:23:44] So those are some, some little tips there on how to design your emails. 

[00:23:48] Crystal Waddell: So this seems like a very small thing, but if we're giving away a coupon or like a buy one, get one free or a free download or whatever. 

[00:23:58] So you're saying do not put free download in the subject line when we're delivering it back to the person. 

Creative Subject Lines to Boost Open Rates

[00:24:06] Kris Daria: Yeah, there's different ways you can be creative with your subject lines. 

[00:24:09] One of the things that I like to do and test. 

[00:24:11] I've tested this out with my clients a lot. Is if you use the word this.

[00:24:14] In your subject lines, it'll tend to make people's curiosity and want them to open it up. 

[00:24:19] So this will solve your problem. Or this is something you must have. 

[00:24:22] Or this is something that Has helped our clients. 

[00:24:25] Or this is something our clients are raving about. 

[00:24:28] Things like, just seeing that in your inbox, it'll make you want to open it. And just to see what is this?

[00:24:33] So you can AB test that with your audience and see what helps and what works over time.

[00:24:37] Crystal Waddell: Okay. 

Dealing with Emails Marked as Spam

[00:24:37] Crystal Waddell: So what about the people who actually sign up for your list. 

[00:24:41] And you have, like their opt in information. And then they mark your email as spam?

[00:24:46] Kris Daria: Unfortunately, that's not something you can control. The only thing that you can control is how you design your emails. 

[00:24:52] Make your emails look like they come from a friend. Add links to your emails and get them to reply back to them, like I said before. 

[00:24:58] Because that makes your emails more friendly and personal, and less spammy.

The Importance of a Branded Email Address

[00:25:02] Kris Daria: It's also important to make sure that even moving forward that you're from email address is coming from your branded domain. 

[00:25:10] Like I said not like at gmail or whatever. 

[00:25:12] That they know who the email is coming from. 

[00:25:14] Make sure your logo is at the top, you know. 

[00:25:16] Make sure they know who it's coming from. 

[00:25:18] Because that way there's less likely for them to mark your email as spam. 

[00:25:21] When they know it's coming from someone familiar 

Email Spoofing and Its Impact

[00:25:23] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, I think it's interesting how even bigger brands like facebook and amazon. Are often spoofed.

[00:25:30] I'm getting all sorts of, even just Facebook messenger messages from people who are like, your account is about to be shut down. 

[00:25:40] Kris Daria: Oh my gosh. Yeah. 

[00:25:41] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And it's it'd been a new influx. 

[00:25:44] I don't know if it's because of large language models or something, and now they're able to just send them out so much faster. 

[00:25:50] I'm grateful that I have enough knowledge that it's look, that's not how meta would communicate with them about something like this. 

[00:25:58] Kris Daria: They're very tricky. I've almost gotten tricked by one. 

[00:26:01] But luckily it was somebody who hacked my friend's Instagram account and messaged me. 

[00:26:06] So I thought a message was coming from my friend. 

[00:26:08] This happens to some of my clients. 

The Importance of an Email List in Case of Social Media Hacking

[00:26:09] Kris Daria: They get hacked out of their meta or their Instagram account.

[00:26:13] And they can no longer use their Instagram account to reach their followers.

[00:26:16] So they rely on their email list. Thankfully they have their email list that they can rely on to reach their customers or else, they lost all their followers. 

[00:26:23] What do you do? So this is why it's really important to, yes, grow your social media following to get that visibility. 

[00:26:29] But at the same time, in parallel, keep on growing your email list.

[00:26:32] That email list is yours no matter where you go, so make sure that you grow your email list, keep it clean. So that way you're protected against, you have another, backup against these spammers, right? No matter how they attack you. 

[00:26:44] Crystal Waddell: Exactly. And I think it's also important to remember that, like you said. 

Quality Over Quantity: Building an Engaged Email List

[00:26:49] Crystal Waddell: It's not the number of people that you have on your email list.

[00:26:53] It's the number of people who actually want to hear from you. That you have on your email list. 

[00:26:57] And having a bunch of people who don't actually want what you are selling anymore is not as helpful as a smaller number. That are actually going to open your email. 

[00:27:07] So in terms of a percentage rate? Is there a good open rate or like some target numbers that we should shoot for?

[00:27:15] Is that still a 

[00:27:16] Kris Daria: thing? 

Understanding Email Open Rates and Click Rates

[00:27:16] Kris Daria: Yeah with open rate nowadays, it's less it's less. Exact accurate because of the changes. 

[00:27:23] That I don't know if you Remember back in 2021. I think apple changed the way that they Mark emails as open. So if you're using apple mail, which is like 90 percent of the population. To use their emails They'll actually mark it as an open when the person didn't actually open. 

[00:27:39] So Email, that's why email open rates tend to be less accurate as they did before.

[00:27:44] You want to at least go for a 30 40 percent open rate is what I tell my clients because lower than that. 

[00:27:51] It's indicating that you have a low, a problem with your deliverability, or the quality of your list is not as good. 

[00:27:56] And click rate, you want to get, I always aim for at least a 1 percent click rate, if not more. 

[00:28:01] So that way, and you do this by adding You know, different ways for people to click on your emails, whether that be GIFs, animated GIFs text links, product listing links.

[00:28:11] These are easily added, you can easily do when you design your emails in Klaviyo. 

[00:28:15] So yeah, and then unsubscribe rate you want to, Obviously have this as low as possible. 

[00:28:20] But if you have a small list, it's really easy to like, when one person unsubscribes out of 10, that's like a 10 percent unsubscriber rate. 

[00:28:26] Which is what I, a lot of my clients, they get worried about that.

[00:28:29] And I'm just like, you're still growing your list. It's okay. It's okay for people to unsubscribe. 

[00:28:33] I try to actually try to see unsubscribers in a different light now, because like you said. 

[00:28:38] These people, they're not going to want to buy from you anyway. So it's like their way of silently leaving your list without you knowing about it.

[00:28:45] So see it that way, yeah, absolutely. 

[00:28:47] Crystal Waddell: I used to feel so sad when somebody left my list. 

[00:28:50] Like, oh, they don't want to be on my email list anymore. 

[00:28:53] But then I'm like that number one, like you said, it's great because I'm building a list of people who actually want to buy. 

[00:28:58] But second of all, like it's not a personal thing.

[00:29:00] People like I sell senior night gifts. 

[00:29:03] They may not have a senior anymore. 

[00:29:05] And maybe I haven't done a good enough job of marketing the other things that I could sell them later. 

[00:29:11] So that shows itself as an opportunity. It's Hey maybe that could be a flow at some point. 

[00:29:17] Of saying, Hey, now that you've bought your senior night gift, here's some things that you might want to check out for dorm decor or whatever, that 

[00:29:23] Kris Daria: idea.

[00:29:23] Yeah. Another way that you can approach lowering your unsubscribed rates is by giving people the chance to temporarily opt out of receiving emails from you. 

[00:29:33] So for example, during a big promotion where you're going to be sending more emails than usual. 

[00:29:38] Or when you are, you know approaching mother's day and mother's day can be a sensitive topic for certain people.

[00:29:43] Give people the chance before you send out those emails.

[00:29:46] You can say hey heads up I'm going to be doing this sending more emails than usual around this period. 

[00:29:51] If you don't want to receive these emails click here and you can temporarily be opted out from receiving them, but you'll still stay a subscriber and remain on my list for my weekly emails. 

[00:30:00] For example giving the people to opt out temporarily, giving them that chance will allow you to prevent them from unsubscribing completely. 

[00:30:08] So that could be another way to manage that.

[00:30:09] Crystal Waddell: So I'd heard of that. I didn't realize that Klaviyo had that capability. 

[00:30:14] Kris Daria: You can. It's not, a straight out feature. You do need to use like click tags to capture their info. 

[00:30:20] So if you put a link where that says click here and you'll be opted out. 

[00:30:24] Anyone who clicks that link in your email will be automatically added a property in their profile.

[00:30:29] So you they can join a segment of people that you can exclude from choose your future email campaign. 

[00:30:35] That's a bit more technical. 

[00:30:36] But that's the beauty of klaviyo. 

[00:30:37] Because you have these features that allow you to segment and be super specific.

The Power of Segmentation in Email Marketing

[00:30:42] Kris Daria: So for example, you can create a segment of people who purchase within the last 10 days. 

[00:30:47] And exclude them from your future email campaigns over the next few weeks. 

[00:30:50] Because they just purchased from you. Maybe they don't want to hear from Your next promotion because they just or else they'll get FOMO, right?

[00:30:57] They might come back and ask for a refund, right? so that could be a way for you to prevent those from happening and also because if you have a Automated post purchase sequence being sent out automatically after they purchase they would be receiving those emails anyway. 

[00:31:11] You know segmenting features like that in Klaviyo is what makes it worth the while.

[00:31:14] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And that's one thing I've really enjoyed about Klaviyo's platform in general. 

[00:31:18] Is that, they'll send you a report too. And it's okay, this is how you're doing. And this is how you're doing compared to other people in your industry. 

[00:31:26] And so there were benchmarks. And I think that's what the email is called like Klaviyo Benchmarks.

[00:31:30] Benchmarks. Yes. Yeah. And I really appreciate it because as a business owner that doesn't know anything about email. 

[00:31:36] That was a way that I was able to help myself learn, and teach myself like, Oh, these are terms that I should be familiar with. 

[00:31:44] And these are standards that I should be aiming for.

[00:31:47] And so that was really helpful in Klaviyo. And I didn't feel like I had ever experienced that with a different email service provider. 

[00:31:55] Kris Daria: Yeah. And that's what I love about Klaviyo. 

[00:31:57] Yes, those advanced prebuilt reporting features allows you to really dive into who your customers are and how they're engaging with your store. 

[00:32:04] And how they're engaging with your email.

[00:32:06] So you can get a better understanding of your customers holistically. 

[00:32:09] I feel like Klaviyo does a great job of that because they understand that their customers are e commerce business owners. 

[00:32:16] So they need to know their revenue, their metrics front and center, right? So they do everything they can to make that easier for their customers.

The Benefits of Klaviyo for Small and Growing Businesses

[00:32:23] Kris Daria: And as a small business, what I see with my clients is. 

[00:32:26] When they don't go with a tool that allows them to grow as they grow their business, they feel limited at some point. And then once, once they feel limited, it then gets becomes harder to migrate their list onto an email service platform that will allow them to continue growing.

[00:32:41] So this is what I love about Klaviyo too. 

[00:32:43] Is that it will, it's good for you as a small business owner and also as you grow into a bigger business. 

[00:32:48] And build that bigger business and empire of yours. It allows you to not feel so limited in the features. Once you get to a certain point, it'll continue to grow with you.

[00:32:57] So that's also a good feature. Good to know. When you're looking out for an email service provider. 

Klaviyo's Integration with Advertising Platforms

[00:33:02] Crystal Waddell: And you may not know the answers to this question, but does Klaviyo integrate with advertising platforms like Facebook? Yes. So retarget people or something like that? 

[00:33:13] Kris Daria: I know with Meta it does integrate. 

[00:33:15] It does have an integration with the audiences.

[00:33:18] So for example, you can create custom lookalike audiences based on customers you have in your Klaviyo account. 

[00:33:23] That's something that you can do with Klaviyo too. Yeah. 

[00:33:26] Crystal Waddell: That's awesome. Because that's something that I also have a goal for of 2024 is like really getting granular with my retargeting and for, people who visited certain pages, certain blog posts or whatever, and then, retargeting them on Facebook.

[00:33:40] I do that now with a product. And just like retargeting with actual product photos and product ads, but. I just created a new digital planning guide for senior night.

[00:33:51] And I want to do that as a retargeting ad on Facebook. So I'm like, this could 

[00:33:56] Kris Daria: be cool.

[00:33:57] Yeah. And you can have those signups directly integrate and get added automatically to Klaviyo without you having to manually import them. 

[00:34:03] So that's one thing, a good integration that Klaviyo has with Meta when you do retargeting signup ads. 

[00:34:09] And I also recommend if you do that, I don't know how to do this exactly in Meta. 

[00:34:13] But exclude people who are already on your email list, so you don't pay Meta for people that are already on your list.

[00:34:18] That's something that a lot of people forget to do. So don't pay Facebook for people that you already have on your list. 

[00:34:23] Just make sure that you have that exclusion, right? 

[00:34:26] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 

[00:34:27] And then one other thing I'm excited about exploring in the future is the reviews function that Klaviyo has.

[00:34:33] Unfortunately I've changed my website over the years.

[00:34:37] I started with GoDaddy. 

[00:34:38] And then I went to Shopify. 

[00:34:41] But within Shopify, switch my themes a couple of times, change my products around, change product names, all that type of stuff. 

[00:34:48] So the Klaviyo ID that I had at one point is now for a product that either doesn't exist or that switched 

[00:34:55] Kris Daria: names.

[00:34:55] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. Yeah. So it's a mess when I'm trying to import the reviews. 

[00:35:00] And Klaviyo's, actually this product did not receive this review. This review belongs to da da da, and I'm like, that product doesn't 

[00:35:08] Kris Daria: even exist anymore. 

[00:35:09] Oh my gosh. Yeah. 

[00:35:10] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. But one thing I'm excited about Klaviyo Reviews. 

[00:35:13] Is that it integrates with Google and Google Reviews, which is so important.

The Importance of Google Reviews and SEO

[00:35:18] Crystal Waddell: And that's a feature that stamped.Io requires you to pay like a hundred bucks a month for. 

[00:35:25] And it's one of those things where I'm like, Oh my gosh, I got to get this like up and going as soon as possible because in the SEO world, Google reviews is everything. 

[00:35:34] And it's mattering more and more every day that your Google business profile and all of your Google integrations align with what you've got going on your website.

[00:35:43] So I'm excited about 

[00:35:44] Kris Daria: that opportunity. 

[00:35:45] That's so good to know, especially like you said, SEO is even, it's, it integrates with Google and it just helps to boost your SEO.

[00:35:52] One thing that I love about Klaviyo is that when it introduces a new feature, it doesn't do it for just like only advanced tiers. 

[00:35:59] Or smaller tiers or smaller brand owners can't do these, like when they introduce a feature.

[00:36:03] They introduce it for anyone who's willing to implement it. 

[00:36:07] It's not just for more advanced users. 

[00:36:09] Yes, it's an added cost, but anyone can have it. You don't have to pay an extreme amount of extra, monthly fees to have access to that feature. 

[00:36:17] So that's something that I think I like about Klaviyo is that they treat everyone equally.

[00:36:20] And it just it's a more fair pricing in that way when you think about it. 

[00:36:24] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, I really appreciate that. 

[00:36:25] Because a company who's, turning over 20 to 30, 000 a month in revenue. 

[00:36:30] They're going to be able to afford all the bells and whistles. 

[00:36:33] But, a company that's making between 5 and 10, 000 a month in revenue.

[00:36:38] That's not the same budget. 

[00:36:40] So yeah, I definitely appreciate that with Klayvio. I'm excited about the future. 

[00:36:45] But I think that's pretty much all the questions that I have for you because you've given us so much. I can't wait to go back through and listen because I'm totally applying this to my own account. And I have this new segment that I'm doing of the podcast called follow through Fridays. So I'm going to pick a couple of things out of here to follow through with for myself and then share about it. Yeah. 

[00:37:06] Kris Daria: Awesome. I'm excited to hear the followup from this. That's really great and awesome that you're doing that.

[00:37:11] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. 

[00:37:12] I was listening to some things on behavioral science.

[00:37:15] And we have the best intentions, right? We have the best intentions to learn something. 

[00:37:20] And to do something, but unless we set a date and commit to doing it. We are much less likely to actually follow 

[00:37:27] Kris Daria: through. 

[00:37:28] True.

[00:37:29] Yeah, I'm gonna have to try that. Yeah, that's so true. Because once we have all these goals, but then it's hard to prioritize. 

[00:37:34] So until you specifically say, I'm going to implement this one thing. 

[00:37:38] One thing that I've learned from reading this amazing book. It's called The One Thing by Kerry Keller.

[00:37:43] I don't know if you've ever read it before. 

[00:37:44] What's one thing to help you prioritize? It's just asking this one simple question. 

[00:37:49] What is one thing that I can do right now that will make everything else easier or unnecessary? 

[00:37:53] And that's just been a guiding force for me. 

[00:37:55] To help me know what is my next best step.

[00:37:57] Crystal Waddell: And I've had the hardest time answering that question. Like one thing is for me. So the way that I modified it for myself was I'm only going to give myself a certain amount of time to accomplish whatever I think I need. 

[00:38:10] That way I'm not spreading myself too thin all day. 

[00:38:13] I'm like, no, my workday is from seven to 12.

[00:38:16] And after that, if I didn't get that one thing done, then that's on me. 

[00:38:20] But I'm working towards that one thing. 

[00:38:22] I just still haven't, I still haven't uncovered it for myself, which is crazy. 

[00:38:26] Kris Daria: You'll hopefully over the year, over the next year, as you do the follow through Fridays, it's going to be interesting to see what sticks.

[00:38:32] That's gonna be good learnings for the future. Yeah. 

[00:38:35] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, absolutely. 

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

[00:38:36] Crystal Waddell: So speaking of learning. 

[00:38:37] If someone has learned from you today and they're on the other side of the airwaves and they're thinking, oh my gosh, I would love to learn more from Kris. 

[00:38:46] Where would you send them?

[00:38:47] How can they find out more about you? 

[00:38:49] Kris Daria: Yeah, sure. So I invite you to check out my website, KrisDaria. com. 

[00:38:54] On there, you can download a bunch of free resources. 

[00:38:57] There's a Klaviyo audit checklist that people can download for free. 

[00:39:01] And by downloading that, you'll stay a subscriber into my email list. 

[00:39:06] I send out a weekly newsletter with helpful email and Klaviyo tips.

[00:39:09] So that way we can keep in touch. Yeah. Directing to my email list, of course. Yeah. 

[00:39:13] Crystal Waddell: That's smart. I love it. I love it. And I love it that you're one of those that like, do as I say and do as I do. 

[00:39:20] So many of us business owners will often say do as I say, but not do as I do because Whatever it is why would we not do as we say?

[00:39:29] So I appreciate that about you. 

[00:39:30] Walk the talk. Yeah, exactly. So thank you so much for being here. 

[00:39:35] This was just so awesome to speak with you and learn even more about Klaviyo. Cause I love Klaviyo. 

[00:39:40] Kris Daria: I had a great time chatting with you too, Crystal. Thank you for inviting me. 

[00:39:43] Crystal Waddell: All right, guys.

[00:39:44] We'll see you next time. Bye bye.