What is Etsy SEO w/ Etsy Design Awards Finalist Nicole Lewis

I do a lot of one on one meetings with Etsy sellers wanting me to critique their shops or give them tips.

So you asked about what was the most important hierarchy: listing titles.

And then I say that first two to three sentences in your listing description.

I've been on several trainings with representatives from Google for Etsy that say those first one to two sentences in your listing description is that prime real estate.

Don't use it to say, thanks so much for visiting this item. I hope you like what....

I see it all the time and it drives me crazy.

If you were inspired by your cat, fine.

But don't use those first couple sentences. That's prime real estate right there.

Crystal: Well hello! Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show Podcast.
Brittany: THE podcast for solopreneurs, service providers and product sellers who want to learn more about SEO and all of the places it shows up. 
Crystal: I'm Crystal Waddell. I help Shopify store owners go from feeling like an SEO zero to an SEO hero in just one day. Using ai, ux, and other tech ninja moves!
Brittany: I'm Brittany Herzberg, SEO case study copywriter. I help service providers increase sales without having to be "on" all of the time Using the power of SEO, story, and social proof.
Crystal: Join us! We're just a couple of business besties who love learning and sharing what we learn.
Brittany: As we show you how Simple
Crystal: and SMART
Brittany: SEO can be. What are we waiting for? Let's jump in!

SEO-podcast-Nicole-Lewis

Crystal Waddell: [00:00:00] Wow, we've got a special treat for you guys today. 

Crystal Waddell: We are talking about Etsy and we have my girl Nicole Lewis here today who is an Etsy O. G. And probably the number one Etsy expert That you could find out there on the interwebs to let you know exactly how to do Etsy SEO.

Crystal Waddell: And Nicole founded a company called Art to the Extreme where she makes these amazing, amazing rainbow crayons. And her whole story 

Crystal Waddell: is so special but Nicole Lewis, we are so excited to have you here. You are such an inspiration. Thank you for being on the show today.

Crystal Waddell: Hey, B! 

Nicole Lewis: I'm so excited. Hello. Hello. And it's so nice to see you guys in person. I am a huge fan of the show. I listen every week. I tell everybody and their mother about your podcast because everybody needs this in your life. So. 

Brittany Herzberg: Thank you. I'm excited to finally meet you. 

Crystal Waddell: Brittany, Nicole. 

Nicole Lewis: Hello. [00:01:00] Nice to meet you. 

Brittany Herzberg: This is awesome. I'm so stoked to have you. 

Nicole Lewis: Anyway. My name is Nicole Lewis. I am the founder and artisan behind art to the extreme home of the original rainbow crayon. 

Nicole Lewis: So I was the first person ever to create and sell a handmade crayon online. Back before Pinterest, back before Instagram, or any of the social media platforms, and really, even before the early days of blogging in the early 2000s.

Nicole Lewis: I am the OG Crayon Lady, the Crayon Queen, people call me. 

Nicole Lewis: I have been doing this a very long time. I am also a former teacher. 

Nicole Lewis: I was an elementary art teacher for 10 years. 

Nicole Lewis: And I was even teaching art from a cart. 

Nicole Lewis: So I was going classroom to classroom at one of my schools. And I would see all these bits and nubs and stubs of broken crayons on the classroom floor.

Nicole Lewis: And I was like, it's Earth Day. I remembered recycling crayons and little Dixie cups with my mom when I was little. 

Nicole Lewis: And I was like, there has to be a fun way to reuse these crayons. 

Nicole Lewis: And... Make them into something new. And, back then there [00:02:00] wasn't silicone molds and things like that.

Nicole Lewis: So I had to get a little inventive with my students. 

Nicole Lewis: But I think being a teacher really brings an awesome perspective into a conversation like this today. 

Brittany Herzberg: Yeah.

Crystal Waddell: So one thing I do remember from Nicole's story that I read about a long time ago was, the crayons that she makes, they're like chunky.

Crystal Waddell: So they're made for little hands, but they're also made for hands that may not be able to grip regular crayons. And so for those of you guys who don't know, I was a former special education P. E. teacher. 

Crystal Waddell: So when I heard that, I was like, Oh my gosh, I could think of so many kids that would totally benefit from your crayons, Nicole.

Crystal Waddell: And so just, another one of the reasons why I love you. 

Nicole Lewis: That's what it's so funny that you said that because that's how I even got started making custom crayons. 

Nicole Lewis: I had a student that could not hold a traditional crayon. So I was literally taking clay, squeezing it in their hand and casting the mold from that. 

Nicole Lewis: To have a writing utensil that they could actually hold on to and just grip and make marks on the paper.

Nicole Lewis: Because being an art teacher, I'm one that [00:03:00] truly believes I don't want to touch the paper as a teacher. 

Nicole Lewis: I don't care what the final product looks. 

Nicole Lewis: The child should be doing it all themselves. I'm happy to show them on a separate sheet of paper, but that's where my mind went. 

Nicole Lewis: I want them to be similar to the same thing with everybody else.

Nicole Lewis: How can I make a unique art tool? 

Nicole Lewis: Because they didn't have all the different tools and supplies and stuff that they do now. 

Nicole Lewis: The classroom was not that inclusive in the early 2000s when I started teaching. 

Brittany Herzberg: No. And me as a massage therapist, I'm like, this is amazing. 

Crystal Waddell: I thought you would enjoy that.

Brittany Herzberg: Okay. So we're going to be talking about Etsy, SEO, all the things. Of course, I love asking my question. 

Brittany Herzberg: So Nicole, how do you define seo? 

Nicole Lewis: I love this question so much because, I feel that SEO is effectively using that magical combination of words that describes your service or your product to get it in front of your ideal buyer or customer.

Nicole Lewis: What are those magical keywords when you put it together? 

Nicole Lewis: Everything just. It works. 

Nicole Lewis: And when I think of SEO, I'm not only thinking about my buyer, but also thinking about [00:04:00] members of the press who might be Googling or searching Etsy or Google for those top holiday gifts or stocking stuffers, the best birthday gifts for kids.

Nicole Lewis: And I want to be sure that I'm using those right keywords, not only to result in purchases, because we all want sales. 

Nicole Lewis: But also those features and magazines and online gift guides that are going to continue that traffic and bring sales my way consistently over time over the life of that article. 

Nicole Lewis: And, I always talk about this as crucial backlinks to help my ranking on Google go up because, we all need that magic. 

Brittany Herzberg: Oh, I love that. 

Brittany Herzberg: Your definition, it makes perfect sense for you because it even feels like almost like a rainbow crayon. 

Brittany Herzberg: It's like we need all of the keywords to be in there so that all the people find us.

Brittany Herzberg: I love it. 

Crystal Waddell: If people don't really understand what Etsy is like as a marketplace, can you tell us a little bit about Etsy, how it works, maybe how it's changed since you started selling there?

Nicole Lewis: Yeah. 

Nicole Lewis: So, I feel like Etsy experts and Etsy coaches [00:05:00] can be a dime a dozen, I feel like in the world we are in today, everybody gets very passionate about a topic, but a lot of people will say oh, I'm an Etsy expert. 

Nicole Lewis: What makes me, Nicole Lewis, come onto a podcast and say let me tell you about Etsy SEO?

Nicole Lewis: Let me tell you about Etsy?

Nicole Lewis: I actually teach for Etsy's educational platform, EtsyU. 

Nicole Lewis: I was brought on by Etsy about a year ago for the 2022 Etsy U education. 

Nicole Lewis: So, I have actually been trained from Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: From their employees, from their headquarters on topics like SEO.

Nicole Lewis: I specialize in branding and getting press for your shop. 

Nicole Lewis: And how to polish your shop to make sure that you're not only getting in front of those ideal customers, but you are also working on that know- trust factor. 

Nicole Lewis: So I've been brought on by Etsy to teach about Etsy. I've also done a lot of that in the past.

Nicole Lewis: My shop's 16 years old, working on year 17. 

Nicole Lewis: I have that unique perspective of seeing every single change Etsy's ever made. 

Nicole Lewis: Which I think is a really [00:06:00] interesting perspective. 

Nicole Lewis: I could talk all day about that for the most part. People have their own opinions about Etsy then versus Etsy now. 

Nicole Lewis: But, because I'm an elementary teacher, I'm good at differentiating those topics. 

Nicole Lewis: So, if you're listening today and you don't have an Etsy shop or you don't have interest in Etsy, keep listening because these actionable items can be used in your Shopify in talking about your services.

Nicole Lewis: There's going to be a lot of little gems that are going to move the needle for you today, even if you don't have an Etsy shop. 

Brittany Herzberg: I love that. Okay. So my question, because you were talking about like, actually having insider knowledge with Etsy and SEO. 

Brittany Herzberg: What are like, I don't know if you have to whittle it down.

Brittany Herzberg: What are like three places or three things that an Etsy seller should maybe know about using the platform? 

Brittany Herzberg: And then people like me who are service providers could also maybe apply elsewhere. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm going to go into a little bit of this with the actual SEO portion, but you need to make sure that you're using effective SEO.

Nicole Lewis: You also need to make sure, and this is my big thing, is your [00:07:00] photography and your branding is on point. 

Nicole Lewis: And I know that scares a lot of people. 

Nicole Lewis: You need to have, at this day and age, you need to have good photography. 

Nicole Lewis: Because, say you happen to make it to page one or page two of Google or of Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: And now in a sea of products, people are trying to decide, okay, my, what I typed in the search engine has gotten me here to these results that should apply to me, but how do I choose which item?

Nicole Lewis: If I type in rainbow crayons, now rainbow crayon makers are a dime a dozen now. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm the OG, I've been doing it forever. 

Nicole Lewis: So I have great SEO, I have great branding, I have great photography. 

Nicole Lewis: That puts me at the top of all the search engines on Etsy and Google. 

Nicole Lewis: But people are going to, in the end, I personally based them off of a photo to start with. 

Nicole Lewis: Because when I'm seeing so many different choices.

Nicole Lewis: I'm going to go to that photo first that looks the best. 

Nicole Lewis: So getting your photography, getting your branding. 

Nicole Lewis: -Because a lot of people think that people will just go to your page and learn more about you and look at everything you have to offer. 

Nicole Lewis: No, people are clicking on one listing from typing in that search [00:08:00] and that's what they're basing it off of.

Nicole Lewis: And half the time they don't even go to your shop. 

Nicole Lewis: And I don't think a lot of Etsy sellers realize that. 

Brittany Herzberg: Oh, that's good. 

Crystal Waddell: That reminds me of Instagram too, because it's like, people are always curating their feeds and all this type of stuff. 

Crystal Waddell: And it's not impossible for someone to go to your page and look through your feed once they've figure out who you are. 

Crystal Waddell: And they want to maybe know a little bit more about you, but that initial interaction is just like one thing. 

Crystal Waddell: You're right. It's just one image. 

Crystal Waddell: And so that's why, product photography is so important. 

Crystal Waddell: We're not thinking about like, how can I make this the most attractive, the fastest for the customer who's looking for this particular thing.

Nicole Lewis: Yes, I completely agree. 

Brittany Herzberg: When it comes to photography, are you, so definitely the look of things, but do you take the time to retitle your images? 

Nicole Lewis: This is an interesting question, because of what I've done with Crystal. 

Nicole Lewis: I have been working on that in the back end and making sure that I'm adding alt descriptions in Etsy.

Nicole Lewis: But [00:09:00] Etsy about two or three weeks ago has totally changed it up in their way and I'm not sure if it's put out to everybody because maybe I'm part of a beta test, but now when you create a new listing on Etsy, it's not giving us that option yet. 

Nicole Lewis: So I'm still going back to the old editor so I can get that alt text description because a lot of people aren't adding alt text descriptions or titles with their photos still.

Nicole Lewis: Not a lot of people know that and that's a great place to insert those keywords that you want to rank for. 

Nicole Lewis: But this new editor, I like it, but I don't because it's not giving me that option. It still gives me that way to go back. Alt text using the old editor. 

Nicole Lewis: And I did see a note the other day that it says coming soon, you can enter alt text.

Nicole Lewis: And that's going to be really important. 

Nicole Lewis: I don't, I think people downplay or don't even realize how important to have alt text with your images. 

Nicole Lewis: But yes, I have been retitling them and that is because of all the things that I learned from Crystal over the last like year and a half of working with her and just having chats with her.

Crystal Waddell: Does [00:10:00] Etsy define SEO differently than, like we've talked about on the show or is there like a specific definition of SEO on Etsy?

Nicole Lewis: Oh, I looked this up because I wanted to be exact.

Nicole Lewis: I was curious of this question too. 

Nicole Lewis: Etsy defines SEO as the art of optimizing a page so it can be easily found by search engines.

Nicole Lewis: So in more simple terms, how products are found on Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: So, very much related to what you guys would say, but. 

Nicole Lewis: You want to optimize your page so you get your products in front of the ideal customer. 

Brittany Herzberg: Preach. 

Brittany Herzberg: I'm constantly talking about optimizing. So I love that definition. Now I'm like, who can we get on here from Etsy?

Crystal Waddell: One thing that I think is interesting is that you described Etsy as a search engine and you said, Etsy search engine, dot, dot, dot. 

Crystal Waddell: And I just want to take a pause there because I think. Just having that mindset shift as different platforms as search engines is so important. 

Crystal Waddell: So whether you're thinking about Instagram or Pinterest or Tik TOK or Google or Etsy or Amazon. 

Crystal Waddell: [00:11:00] Which Amazon is the largest e commerce search engine, on the internet. 

Crystal Waddell: I think it's just so important to, just have that perspective that we're approaching Etsy now as a search engine. So how does this Etsy search engine work? 

Nicole Lewis: So, the Etsy search engine actually is going to work in two different phases. 

Nicole Lewis: It's going to work in something called query matching and ranking. And query matching and ranking. 

Nicole Lewis: What's the difference between the both of them? So, let's give an example.

Nicole Lewis: When someone types in rainbow crayons in the search bar. 

Nicole Lewis: Since, I'm a rainbow crayon maker. 

Nicole Lewis: And I don't know if they're even typing in rainbow crayons, they probably don't even know that that's the gift that they want. 

Nicole Lewis: But let's just say somebody types in rainbow crayons in the search bar and you need to make sure that your rainbow crayons are going to be within that shopper search and that query matching. 

Nicole Lewis: Etsy SEO is matching your product with the shopper search. 

Nicole Lewis: But you also need to make sure that you have a good ranking. 

Nicole Lewis: Let's take that example, so the rainbow crayon search. If you're on page [00:12:00] 48 when someone types in rainbow crayon, That's not going to help get buyers to your shop.

Nicole Lewis: They're not going to see your products. 

Nicole Lewis: No one's searching through 40 pages just to find you. 

Nicole Lewis: So you want to make sure that your product is not only matching the query that someone's typing in, in that search bar, but you also want to make sure that your items are ranking. 

Nicole Lewis: And that's how Etsy SEO works in a nutshell.

Crystal Waddell: Okay. So my question would be then, okay, how do I rank? 

Crystal Waddell: How do I rank better? 

Nicole Lewis: That's exactly what people want to know. 

Nicole Lewis: And when a customer uses that search bar, Etsy is going to look into the SEO of items to match that actual search. 

Nicole Lewis: So for that ranking, there's four main places that Etsy systems are going to kind of like look at and draw from for that best match possible. 

Nicole Lewis: They're going to look at the listing titles. They're going to look at the tags. 

Nicole Lewis: They're going to look at the category that your product that you think that your product belongs in. 

Nicole Lewis: So that's really important in the list, the actual listing attributes.

Nicole Lewis: And keywords is a whole topic within itself.

Nicole Lewis: Crystal, [00:13:00] you're the one that really specializes in that you need to start thinking about what customers are actually typing in the search bar to find your product. 

Crystal Waddell: So really quick. 

Crystal Waddell: Is there one of the four or is that the hierarchy of importance? 

Crystal Waddell: Listing titles then tags and category then listing attributes? 

Crystal Waddell: Or does it matter in terms of which one's the most important.

Nicole Lewis: So that's the way Etsy, when they presented it to myself and the other Etsy instructors, that's the way that they ordered it. 

Nicole Lewis: I really think, especially for Etsy, the listing titles are going to be really important. 

Nicole Lewis: And something that's going to be different, if you have an Etsy shop versus a Shopify, and we can take my shop again, for an example. 

Nicole Lewis: Your listing titles, that is the first spot I think about when using keywords.

Nicole Lewis: For that SEO. And listing titles on Etsy look really weird. If you were a painter, and you've made this beautiful painting of a sunset. 

Nicole Lewis: And you want to call it sunset in the Bahama Island, that's not going to get your item [00:14:00] found. I know that's what you're. 

Nicole Lewis: I know that's what your title of your work is called, but to be quite blunt, nobody cares.

Brittany Herzberg: They're not searching for that. 

Nicole Lewis: They're not searching for that. We're not going to find you. And in the end, you want your artwork to be shown. 

Nicole Lewis: Can you talk about that sunset in the Bahamas in your listing description? 

Nicole Lewis: Yes. Further on down, but don't use that prime retail space in your actual listing description. Put sunset, and beach sunset in the Bahamas.

Brittany Herzberg: Yes. Okay. 

Brittany Herzberg: I have a quick thing to add just because I want, I know that you were saying we can make this apply to service providers. 

Brittany Herzberg: I made this mistake myself. I had a course, have a course for massage therapist. 

Brittany Herzberg: It is CE approved because we need to get like continuing education hours and all this stuff.

Brittany Herzberg: I called it B Social. I thought it was so cute and clever. 

Brittany Herzberg: Not a soul on this planet is looking for B Social. 

Brittany Herzberg: They're looking for Instagram marketing course for massage therapist. So yes. Okay. 

Brittany Herzberg: That applies not just to product sellers. 

Nicole Lewis: I completely agree. 

Nicole Lewis: I do a lot of one on one [00:15:00] meetings with Etsy sellers wanting me to critique their shops or give them tips.

Nicole Lewis: And one thing I see is a lot of fluff in that product description. 

Nicole Lewis: And just like you were saying, don't mean to call it fluff, but I'm going to call it like it is. It's fluff. 

Nicole Lewis: And especially in product descriptions and especially that first paragraph or so of a listing description. 

Nicole Lewis: So you asked about what was the most important hierarchy: listing titles. 

Nicole Lewis: And then I say that first two to three sentences in your listing description. 

Nicole Lewis: As of a year ago, Google is now playing nice with Etsy even more.

Nicole Lewis: I've been on several trainings with Google people. 

Nicole Lewis: Representatives from Google for Etsy that say those first one to two sentences in your listing description is that prime real estate.

Nicole Lewis: Don't use it to say, thanks so much for visiting this item. I hope you like what.... 

Nicole Lewis: don't include, I see it all the time and it drives me crazy. 

Nicole Lewis: People don't know until they know, that it's primed real estate. 

Nicole Lewis: So get rid of the fluff, especially in that first paragraph in your listing.

Nicole Lewis: You want to make sure that you are [00:16:00] talking about this product, whatever. Rainbow crayon is the perfect gift, birthday gift for a toddler. 

Nicole Lewis: You want those words and those phrases that you want to write for in those first couple of sentences. 

Nicole Lewis: Then later on, go into the middle of it and talk about your description sizes.

Nicole Lewis: If you were inspired by your cat, fine. 

Nicole Lewis: But don't use those first couple sentences. That's prime real estate right there. 

Crystal Waddell: Okay. So I have a question. It may be a little bit controversial. 

Nicole Lewis: Okay. Yay. 

Crystal Waddell: Etsy seems like the place where keyword stuffing is still allowed. 

Crystal Waddell: And not only allowed, but encouraged. 

Crystal Waddell: Because, when we talk about titles on Etsy, it's not just that it looks weird sometimes for whatever reason, but sometimes it's rainbow crayon, crayon for kids, rainbow crayon for babies. 

Crystal Waddell: And it's every keyword in the title and there and those are ranking. 

Crystal Waddell: Those are on the first page! 

Crystal Waddell: Whereas in other places, we're saying, don't do that. 

Crystal Waddell: So, do you have any comment on that? 

Nicole Lewis: And I think that's something I [00:17:00] figured out early myself, even before Etsy trained me with that.

Nicole Lewis: And Etsy actually, I had a one on one with an Etsy representative on the listing side. And That's what they suggested to do. 

Nicole Lewis: What they don't want you to do: do not copy your title and put it in your listing description. 

Nicole Lewis: Do not keyword stuff. 

Nicole Lewis: I know a lot of people on Instagram now are adding keywords. 

Nicole Lewis: Not hashtags, but like keywords at the bottom of their Instagram posts or what they want to rank for on Instagram.

Nicole Lewis: Don't do that in your Etsy listing. 

Nicole Lewis: So at the very bottom of your Etsy listing, don't put like gift for kids, stocking stuffer for kids. 

Nicole Lewis: Don't have that down there because that's actually going to work against you in your favor. 

Nicole Lewis: And I've actually heard that directly from Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: Listing titles as weird as they look.

Nicole Lewis: I actually don't pay attention to other people's listing titles. 

Nicole Lewis: I type what I want in the search. 

Nicole Lewis: I look at the photo. 

Nicole Lewis: And then I directly go to how many reviews do they have? 

Nicole Lewis: How many items have they sold? To see that know, like trust. 

Nicole Lewis: Is my item actually going to arrive to me? 

Nicole Lewis: Which is another thought that gets on people's minds using Etsy sometimes. 

Nicole Lewis: Because there are shops on Etsy, unfortunately, that Don't have good customer [00:18:00] service or they have products from China.

Nicole Lewis: That's a whole nother topic for another day.

Nicole Lewis: But yes, that's great to do. I don't want to call it keyword stuffing in your title. 

Nicole Lewis: I guess that's a call like it is. 

Nicole Lewis: But that's the way that they've said that's the best way to rank on Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: Am I going to pull that title and put it in my Shopify?

Nicole Lewis: No way. It's going to look completely different on Shopify, but I don't feel weird or bad doing it on Etsy because it works. 

Nicole Lewis: And in the end, I don't think as a buyer, I'm not looking at people's titles being like, Oh, that's, that's a weird title. 

Nicole Lewis: Is this a real product? No. It's coming up in the search.

Nicole Lewis: I'm looking at the photos right away. I don't even pay attention to the titles, honestly, as a buyer looking at products. 

Brittany Herzberg: That's really good to know. I definitely go straight for the reviews. 

Brittany Herzberg: So that's, it's interesting to see like buyer behavior, which ties into my question that I have for you. 

Brittany Herzberg: So I'm curious because I have my ways of figuring this out with service providers, but like, how do you figure out what buyers might have typed in that led them to your shop?

Brittany Herzberg: Are you asking the buyers? 

Brittany Herzberg: Is there a [00:19:00] way to check that inside Etsy? Like we can on Google? Any thoughts there?

Nicole Lewis: So when I work one on one with clients I tell them start off by go to the Etsy search bar. 

Nicole Lewis: And start typing in the first word of what you think that somebody would be putting in for you.

Nicole Lewis: If I type in a rainbow, it's going to start coming up. 

Nicole Lewis: Etsy's automatically going to populate rainbow t shirt, rainbow this, it's going to come up with different things. 

Nicole Lewis: So I like to see what people are already searching on Etsy and try to fit my product into that mold. 

Nicole Lewis: And one of the unique and fun things about Etsy as from a buyer perspective is I can AB test.

Nicole Lewis: I have 200 products in my shop. 

Nicole Lewis: I'd say 80% of them is the same exact product. 

Nicole Lewis: But with a different first photo. 

Nicole Lewis: With a different listing title. 

Nicole Lewis: With different keywords. 

Nicole Lewis: Because in the end, not very many people are coming straight to your shop and looking, wow, there's so many different name crayons.

Nicole Lewis: Are they all the same? Which one am I going to buy? 

Nicole Lewis: I maybe get one person out of a thousand that asks me, Hey, are all these listings actually the same? 

Nicole Lewis: I want to make sure I'm [00:20:00] ordering this for a boy or for a girl. 

Nicole Lewis: No one's really going to your shop. I'm being quite honest. 

Nicole Lewis: No one's going straight to the shop and looking at everything.

Nicole Lewis: They're going to the search. They're typing on search bar. 

Nicole Lewis: They're clicking on a product.

Nicole Lewis: They're just finding if they're going to purchase. 

Nicole Lewis: And if they need more of that, know, like trust factor, those reviews, then they're going to click on your shop and see, oh, okay. 

Nicole Lewis: They have a nice banner.

Nicole Lewis: They actually fill out their about section. They have reviews. 

Nicole Lewis: They filled out their entire shop. And that's something I would love to talk more about in just a moment too, but filling out your whole shop. But. 

Nicole Lewis: They're not going into your shop and seeing that you have a million. 

Nicole Lewis: So use listings to AB test. 

Nicole Lewis: If you have two of the same product, put them up there. 

Nicole Lewis: But I wouldn't test multiple things on one listing. 

Nicole Lewis: So if you want to know which photo is going to get the most clicks, test out the photo and keep the titles and stuff the same. 

Nicole Lewis: If you want to know which title is going to perform better. 

Nicole Lewis: Keep the same photos for that first photo and test out different titles and see what works over time.

Crystal Waddell: As a fellow Etsy seller, that is so helpful. 

Crystal Waddell: Understanding what [00:21:00] variable is a control variable is really important. 

Crystal Waddell: You know what I mean?

Crystal Waddell: So I'm just thinking, I'm like, this would be an excellent freebie.

Crystal Waddell: Because it's like how to test your listings against each other to really find like you said, what the variable is that is making it work. 

Crystal Waddell: Making it sell. 

Crystal Waddell: So many times when I'm talking to other sellers, I tell them, look. With Shopify or with e commerce, the key is finding a product that people want to buy.

Crystal Waddell: And as fast as you can do that is, that's the quick way to success. 

Crystal Waddell: And so you have just given us a gift, like a true gift. 

Crystal Waddell: Of, this is how you measure it. 

Crystal Waddell: This is how you can actually say, this is what's working and this is why it's working. 

Crystal Waddell: Because so much of it is just I'm not sure why it's working. I just know it is, and so then when something changes or multiple things change. 

Crystal Waddell: Just like Etsy is a platform that's going to change a bunch of stuff at once. 

Crystal Waddell: We don't know what it is that we did that was working before. 

Crystal Waddell: It's harder to adapt when you don't know what's working.

Crystal Waddell: So thank you for that idea. 

Nicole Lewis: For actual ranking within Etsy too, [00:22:00] there's a few things that go into those higher ranking scores. 

Nicole Lewis: And one of the A -B tests is actually going to give you a benefit to that. 

Nicole Lewis: Etsy is looking at relevancy. 

Nicole Lewis: They're looking at translation and language. 

Nicole Lewis: They're looking at listing quality score. 

Nicole Lewis: They're looking at recency. They're looking at customer experience score, shipping price.

Nicole Lewis: And shopper habits. 

Nicole Lewis: And I think all of these could be a mini like TED talk within themselves. 

Nicole Lewis: When we were talking about A B testing, relevancy.

Nicole Lewis: I always wondered how true it was that like, Oh, if I list a new item, is it really a little boost up that first few minutes or hours or days to see. 

Nicole Lewis: And yes, Etsy, I heard it from Etsy directly. It is true. 

Nicole Lewis: Every new listing gets a small temporary boost for that search engine to learn your listing. 

Nicole Lewis: And that customer behavior that goes along with that listing. 

Nicole Lewis: So A B testing is going to give you more opportunities to try that out. 

Nicole Lewis: And see what our customers are clicking on this photo because it looks pretty. 

Nicole Lewis: Are the titles working the [00:23:00] best because it's coming up. 

Nicole Lewis: And this is the same for expired listings as well that are renewed. 

Nicole Lewis: I always list often. And I do a lot of A B testing, especially using the different photos and adding extra listings of the same exact thing.

Nicole Lewis: If you make one of a kind products, and it's an art piece that you spent hours and hours on, you're not going to be able to necessarily list it twice. 

Nicole Lewis: Because what happens, heaven forbid, great! 

Nicole Lewis: If it sells the same thing to different people and they only have one of the products. 

Nicole Lewis: So, it doesn't always work for everybody, but A B testing can help you learn a lot about what's actually working on Etsy and it might look different than what you use for Shopify.

Brittany Herzberg: You mentioned that you post often. How often are we talking? 

Nicole Lewis: Okay, so I post after every holiday. 

Nicole Lewis: It's like the next day or like the day of the holiday, because I do work on holidays sometimes, which sounds really silly, but it helps.

Nicole Lewis: It pays off in the long run. 

Nicole Lewis: After every holiday, so say after Christmas, my listings are automatically getting a refresh.

Nicole Lewis: I'm [00:24:00] changing all the titles out so I can rank for Valentine's Day. 

Nicole Lewis: Because it takes about 30 days or more to really start ranking for those items, and I don't... Have a lot of time between Christmas and Valentine's day to start showing up in the search for those terms. 

Nicole Lewis: So. I'm switching my photos around.

Nicole Lewis: I'm switching with backgrounds and products that are related to that holiday. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm switching my tags up my titles. I do that after every holiday. 

Nicole Lewis: So Easter's past, I don't do a lot for mother's day. I'm going to start doing back to school. 

Nicole Lewis: And yes, even some Christmas already. 

Nicole Lewis: But for those of you that have taken an Etsy course with me or know me from social media or Instagram or from Etsy's blogs and such. 

Nicole Lewis: I am really good at getting my own press. 

Nicole Lewis: And June, the start of June is when magazines and online platforms are pinning down their stuff for holiday already. 

Nicole Lewis: Which means I already got to be ranking for a holiday in June and nobody else's normal people are not thinking about Christmas in June. 

Nicole Lewis: But the magazine world, if you're in a print magazine, that is starting like now.

Nicole Lewis: And so I do a lot of that prep right after Easter. 

Nicole Lewis: [00:25:00] I'm switching my listing titles. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm switching my photos to accommodate for whatever the next big holiday that I need to make sure that I'm ranking for and coming up in that search so I can be seen by members of the media. 

Brittany Herzberg: So would it be a good idea? 

Brittany Herzberg: And this is becoming at this from not being a product seller. 

Brittany Herzberg: But my brain trying to figure out like how to get all the extra credit is.

Brittany Herzberg: I could have the same product listed for back to school, listed for Christmas, listed for whatever. 

Brittany Herzberg: So that way, if you're going in and you're like revamping the same product listing, and again, I have zero idea of how this actually works, I just come to it from a buyer perspective does that make sense?

Brittany Herzberg: Is that something that a seller could do? 

Nicole Lewis: Yes, and it's very smart of them to do that. 

Nicole Lewis: And the way that I can hide it on my page is if I'm posting things for Christmas and I'm wanting to rank now for that. 

Nicole Lewis: So members of the media can find my items. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm manually moving those listings to page six or seven of my Etsy shop. 

Nicole Lewis: Because unless you're really passionate about Art 2 The Extreme and rainbow crayons. 

Nicole Lewis: You're not necessarily going through seven pages of the same [00:26:00] listing over and over and over.

Nicole Lewis: I it's there because I wanted to get picked up in search for people actually searching. 

Nicole Lewis: Are tons of people putting searches in for stocking stuffers in May and June? 

Nicole Lewis: No, they're not, but I specifically want to reach members of the media. 

Nicole Lewis: So I'm included in all the different press articles. 

Nicole Lewis: I've been in over 300 different magazines and online features, everything from this past winter.

Nicole Lewis: My rainbow crayon products were chosen for Joanna Gaines's Magnolia magazine. 

Nicole Lewis: The actual in print, like one of 10 products chosen for that. 

Nicole Lewis: I've been in pretty much every single magazine you can think of. From food network- 

Crystal Waddell: give us a list. Give us a list. 

Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. Yeah. Tell us everything.

Nicole Lewis: It's so wonderful because there's two different ways you can approach SEO with getting magazines, getting featured in press. 

Nicole Lewis: So if you think about a hard copy magazine. 

Nicole Lewis: If you're just starting off getting press for your shop. 

Nicole Lewis: Because you want press for your shop, that know, like, trust factor.

Nicole Lewis: There's a million rainbow crayon people out there now, unfortunately. 

Nicole Lewis: I am the OG. I've been doing this forever. 

Nicole Lewis: [00:27:00] And I've really well established myself there. 

Nicole Lewis: But how did I get to that? 

Nicole Lewis: It's because I have all this press to back it up that know, like, trust factor. 

Nicole Lewis: When they see my products versus somebody else. 

Nicole Lewis: They're going to see mine as being the original, the highest quality, the best gifts for people. 

Nicole Lewis: And everybody else, they can make their own assumptions about. 

Nicole Lewis: When you say, Oh, I've been featured on Martha Stewart. I'm Joanna Gaines's top pick. 

Nicole Lewis: Heck yes, I'm going to pick that shop owner and support that person, whether their products are more or less than somebody else's because I know these products are going to show up to my door.

Nicole Lewis: I know that they look good. 

Nicole Lewis: Their quality is going to be amazing. 

Nicole Lewis: And if they get to know that shop owner and their story, people want to get behind a story. 

Nicole Lewis: People want to get behind a brand, a face behind that brand. 

Nicole Lewis: You can just pick any old thing off of Amazon, but the majority of people want to feel good about doing something. 

Nicole Lewis: To know an actual face behind the product.

Nicole Lewis: Don't be a faceless product or a faceless service. 

Nicole Lewis: If you're getting that hard copy magazine, that's great for that know, like and trust factor. 

Nicole Lewis: Hey, look, I'm in a magazine. 

Nicole Lewis: What am I going to do with that [00:28:00] information now? 

Nicole Lewis: I'm going to put up a video of me holding up the magazine on Instagram.

Nicole Lewis: I'm going to show myself going to Target and grabbing that Joanna Gaines 's Magnolia magazine off the shelf. 

Nicole Lewis: And opening up to my products. 

Nicole Lewis: Just because it's in a magazine, how many people are really typing in www. arttotheextreme. com anymore? 

Nicole Lewis: No, nobody's doing that. 

Nicole Lewis: You're in a magazine for that know and trust factor and to make that connection.

Nicole Lewis: But when it goes online, you're getting those backlinks to either your Etsy shop. 

Nicole Lewis: You're getting those backlinks to your Shopify shop. 

Nicole Lewis: If you're an expert and you're getting quoted in a magazine or on Good Morning America or the Today Show. 

Nicole Lewis: Those are backlinks to your website and that's going to help boost your score in Google.

Nicole Lewis: And I know Crystal, you've helped me understand that whole thing. 

Nicole Lewis: And you even looked up how many backlinks I had to my website at one point. 

Nicole Lewis: I think you were shocked about how many. 

Nicole Lewis: But getting press, making sure your photography is on point, making sure your story and your branding is on point.

Nicole Lewis: Those are going to help you get that next step to move you over the [00:29:00] hump. 

Nicole Lewis: And to have people buy your products over somebody else that has a like or similar product. 

Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, I have another question. 

Brittany Herzberg: I know I like hogging all the questions. 

Brittany Herzberg: Okay, so I want, I love the press thing I love the story thing I could

Brittany Herzberg: totally just talk to you about that for four hours, but we're not going to do that. 

Brittany Herzberg: So I have a question because you're talking about all this press. 

Brittany Herzberg: My brain goes to, you're going to get logos that you could use. 

Brittany Herzberg: So are, I'm going to tie this in with filling out your entire shop because I'm curious again, I'm just a buyer here.

Brittany Herzberg: Can you use those logos to fill out your shop listing? 

Brittany Herzberg: Is there a way to do that? Or are we only leaving that like on your website and on Instagram and other social media platforms? 

Nicole Lewis: If you look on any of my listings that have been featured, it's not my first photo.

Nicole Lewis: I try not to make it my first photo because Etsy frowns against having like additional text and stuff in your image. 

Nicole Lewis: And it just looks bad. 

Nicole Lewis: But, on my second or third one, I'll have a picture of my product. 

Nicole Lewis: And then next to it, you'll see all the logos. 

Nicole Lewis: And that looks crazy because there's so many! 

Nicole Lewis: And it's like I don't want to leave any of them off because they're all [00:30:00] big names. 

Nicole Lewis: But I have all the little logos. 

Nicole Lewis: And then I also have the Etsy Design Award logo on there. 

Nicole Lewis: Not only do I teach for Etsy, but I actually placed among the top 10 in the Etsy Design Awards back in 2020. 

Nicole Lewis: Which is huge because there's, there, back then there was like 5. 7 million shops. 

Nicole Lewis: I think there were over like 8 million shops now. 

Nicole Lewis: But to be able to be found and loved by so many out of like almost 6 million shops. 

Nicole Lewis: I ranked in the top 10 of all the kids gifts on Etsy.

Nicole Lewis: But that's a big bragging right. 

Nicole Lewis: And sometimes on my main photo on Etsy I'll have that little seal of approval as Etsy design award finalist Top 10 kids gifts.

Nicole Lewis: Because that makes my products relevant. 

Nicole Lewis: It shows that people want these. 

Nicole Lewis: It shows members in the media looking for products to include in the staffing stuffers and gift guides that, oh, this is the real person. 

Nicole Lewis: This is the person that we want to feature. We know this is going to sell. 

Nicole Lewis: Why do members of the media want to know what products are going to sell?

Nicole Lewis: Because affiliate links are huge right now. 

Nicole Lewis: And Etsy, one of the benefits. 

Nicole Lewis: I always tell [00:31:00] everybody that I teach on Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: And maybe Etsy doesn't like this. 

Nicole Lewis: But you always need to have more than one platform. 

Nicole Lewis: Because if Etsy was gone today. 

Nicole Lewis: If Instagram was gone. If you lost Facebook. 

Nicole Lewis: How are you gonna contact your customers?

Nicole Lewis: You need to be collecting emails. 

Nicole Lewis: You need to have a Shopify or a blog or some sort of other list. 

Nicole Lewis: But you also need to have an Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: If you have a Shopify only, you need to try to have an Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: Because Etsy is a free way to have affiliate links. 

Nicole Lewis: And affiliate links are basically ways that influencers and members of the media can get paid for featuring your product.

Crystal Waddell: This was just a great, gentle reminder for me to go back into all my blogs and update my affiliate links. 

Crystal Waddell: Nicole shared with me that now, as an incentive for Etsy sellers to push people to Etsy.com, Etsy sellers can use affiliate links offsite.

Crystal Waddell: Can you explain that to us? 

Nicole Lewis: Yeah, so not only do influencers and members in the media use these Etsy affiliate links for products. 

Nicole Lewis: Because they get a kickback from Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: I don't have to pay anything. 

Nicole Lewis: For a member of [00:32:00] the media to use my Etsy listing. 

Nicole Lewis: And every time somebody clicks on that for the next 30 days or whatever it is, that member of the media gets paid money.

Nicole Lewis: And so they know if I have a popular product, people are going to click on it. 

Nicole Lewis: From the top 10 gifts to give kids over the summer. 

Nicole Lewis: They're going to get good income from that. And they're going to continue featuring me. 

Nicole Lewis: And that's how I built so many relationships. 

Nicole Lewis: But. As an Etsy seller, myself, I can use the platform that Etsy uses for affiliate links for free.

Nicole Lewis: It's called Awin, A-W-I-N. 

Nicole Lewis: You can sign up to use that. 

Nicole Lewis: And I can use that with my own listings to bring not only customers to purchase from my shops. 

Nicole Lewis: But to get a little bit of money kickback. 

Nicole Lewis: Because what Etsy was noticing is like people like me that have a Shopify. 

Nicole Lewis: I'm putting my shop at ArttotheExtreme.Com in my Instagram bio.

Nicole Lewis: I'm not putting, shop at this site on Etsy. com. 

Nicole Lewis: I want people to go to my own website. 

Nicole Lewis: Because I want to earn a little bit more money from the sales and purchases. 

Nicole Lewis: I want traffic coming directly to me. 

Nicole Lewis: And me being an [00:33:00] artist, I don't tell Etsy this, but I tend to look and see if these sellers also have their own dot coms. 

Nicole Lewis: Because I know as an artist, I want to make sure I'm supporting that person. 

Nicole Lewis: That they're getting the most from that purchase or service as possible.

Nicole Lewis: So I do try to actively do that. 

Nicole Lewis: If you only have an Etsy shop, you can double dip a little bit. 

Nicole Lewis: And make some money back from using that Awin.com platform as an affiliate link. 

Crystal Waddell: As an Etsy seller that has felt a little bit hurt by the nature of business. 

Crystal Waddell: Because business is business. It took me a while.

Crystal Waddell: When you're a handmade maker, there's like this element of yourself that extends through the product.

Crystal Waddell: So it's not just, I found a product online and now I'm shipping it to people.

Crystal Waddell: No, I have emotional attachment to the things I make. 

Crystal Waddell: It's really important to me that people connect with it and that they connect with me. 

Crystal Waddell: And one of the things that I had found a few years ago. 

Crystal Waddell: Was that when I had pinned my Etsy shop listings to Pinterest. 

Crystal Waddell: People would click through on that pin.

Crystal Waddell: And come to my shop where they would see my beautiful work. 

Crystal Waddell: And all of [00:34:00] that effort. 

Crystal Waddell: And then right underneath it was, Hey, you might also like these items from all of Crystal's competitors. 

Crystal Waddell: So that's when my heart broke a little bit. 

Crystal Waddell: But, as I grew as a business owner, I realized, you know what, Etsy has a business. 

Crystal Waddell: And this makes sense for their business.

Crystal Waddell: But I am now more incentivized, like you said, to send traffic back to Etsy because. 

Crystal Waddell: At that time, you couldn't sign up for Awin as an Etsy seller and promote your own products.

Crystal Waddell: So this is a great shift that they've made, I think, to heal that. 

Crystal Waddell: That gap between, how Etsy works as a business and how they feel about their sellers.

Crystal Waddell: So, yeah. 

Nicole Lewis: A lot of people have a beef with that.

Nicole Lewis: I feel like I've got a unique perspective of trying to see that full picture. 

Nicole Lewis: People get very emotional about Etsy and what they're doing.

Nicole Lewis: Etsy is a business. 

Nicole Lewis: It is your responsibility as a business owner to have additional platforms. 

Nicole Lewis: To collect emails. 

Nicole Lewis: To do what you need to do on your end, to make sure that your business is staying afloat.

Nicole Lewis: Honestly, Etsy owes nothing to you. 

Nicole Lewis: They [00:35:00] are a platform. They can choose to do whatever they want. 

Nicole Lewis: If they show your competitors below, you need to work harder and get photography up to speed. 

Nicole Lewis: You need to have the best work on your SEO. 

Nicole Lewis: I hate saying put more effort in that sounds like not very nice. 

Nicole Lewis: But don't sit there and complain. Do something about it. 

Nicole Lewis: Have the best photo.

Nicole Lewis: So they don't want to go to somebody else's shop. 

Nicole Lewis: Make sure that you're giving the best customer service. 

Nicole Lewis: And. Having that, that Awin option. 

Nicole Lewis: If they do happen to click on a competitor or something. 

Nicole Lewis: At least you're making a kickback from whatever they decide to purchase for the next 30 days.

Nicole Lewis: So.

Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. I love that. 

Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And it's true. Those are the things that challenge you to become better. 

Crystal Waddell: You just made a long list of things that's going to help your business get better. 

Crystal Waddell: And I thank Etsy for that. 

Crystal Waddell: Now, there was something else that you mentioned that I'm not real familiar with.

Crystal Waddell: And that was the listing quality score. 

Crystal Waddell: And how it's your conversion rate? 

Crystal Waddell: Can you explain that a little bit? 

Crystal Waddell: I wasn't familiar with that. 

Nicole Lewis: Yes. So your listing quality score. 

Nicole Lewis: And that's your conversion rate. 

Nicole Lewis: So, [00:36:00] out of all the people viewing and visiting your shop, how many of them are actually making a purchase? 

Nicole Lewis: . Keeps track of that.

Nicole Lewis: If they're viewing products, but they're not actually purchasing them. 

Nicole Lewis: Or shopping from you, that's going to send Etsy a signal. 

Nicole Lewis: That your product might not be that good, or wanted, or didn't really be a good fit for that search.

Nicole Lewis: So that listing quality score, that conversion rate that you're making with your customers is going to tell Etsy a lot.

Nicole Lewis: When that your product came up in that search, was it a good fit? 

Nicole Lewis: And if they're not clicking on it, you're going to continue going farther and farther down the page. 

Nicole Lewis: Back to like page 50. Which you don't want to be. 

Nicole Lewis: Everything kind of plays into that. 

Nicole Lewis: As far as your photos, your descriptions. 

Nicole Lewis: Even your shop. 

Nicole Lewis: One of the best things that you can do for your shop is making sure that you fill out the announcement section. 

Nicole Lewis: And your about you section. 

Nicole Lewis: Another thing I see when I talk and I have one on one meetings and Etsy critiques with my clients. 

Nicole Lewis: Is that their shop announcement, it's either not filled out. 

Nicole Lewis: Or it starts off with, [00:37:00] Hi, thank you so much for visiting my shop. 

Nicole Lewis: I hope you like all the things that I make. There's rainbows and sunshine and have a good day.

Nicole Lewis: And I say that in a way that's making fun of, but it happens. 

Nicole Lewis: And when you don't know, you don't know. 

Nicole Lewis: Use those, the same thing about the listing descriptions. 

Nicole Lewis: Use it as first few sentences. If you go to mine, it says Art To The Extreme specializes in personalized name crayons and custom crayon designs.

Nicole Lewis: You don't want it to sound robotic. 

Nicole Lewis: But, you want to make sure that it spits out exactly what you do. 

Nicole Lewis: That it's covering those keywords that you want to rank for. 

Nicole Lewis: And if you want to talk about your turnaround time. 

Nicole Lewis: If you want to talk about all the places. 

Nicole Lewis: That can go further on down the line. 

Nicole Lewis: You can make your shop announcement as long as you want.

Nicole Lewis: I can't remember how long mine is. 

Nicole Lewis: But you only see the first few sentences when you're just visiting someone's shop. 

Nicole Lewis: Please make sure that you're using that as prime real estate and that you're not putting that bluff there. 

Nicole Lewis: Same when you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the shop. 

Nicole Lewis: It talks about the about section.

Nicole Lewis: So many people don't have the about the maker section for that. 

Nicole Lewis: They don't have those five photos or videos. 

Nicole Lewis: They don't have those keywords and those captions of those photos that you can do. 

Nicole Lewis: And that is where [00:38:00] Etsy SEO is drawing from. 

Nicole Lewis: They're drawing from not only your listing descriptions and titles, but they're drawing from your about you section.

Nicole Lewis: And they're drawing from that top announcement section. 

Nicole Lewis: Those are places to stick keywords in. 

Crystal Waddell: How important are videos in your score, versus using images? 

Crystal Waddell: And what about free shipping? How does that go into your score? 

Nicole Lewis: I'm glad you said something about videos because videos are extremely important. 

Nicole Lewis: Especially with Etsy moving over to, if you haven't done so there's a new seller app. 

Nicole Lewis: People have a love hate relationship with it, but it's going to be good in the end.

Nicole Lewis: We all have to get behind video. 

Nicole Lewis: I think a lot of people have dragged their feet. And they're just starting to come around and say. 

Nicole Lewis: Okay, I'm going to do video now. Every listing needs a video. 

Nicole Lewis: Your listings quality score is going to get dropped if you don't have a video. 

Nicole Lewis: You need a video.

Nicole Lewis: And I tell people, when I coach them, when I talk to them one on one and when I teach for Etsy U. 

Nicole Lewis: I say, your listing can be as easy as you holding up your product and just moving it left to 

Nicole Lewis: if that's a placeholder for now, great. You have a video. 

Nicole Lewis: When somebody goes to the search and holds [00:39:00] their finger or whatever over the image, it's going to automatically start playing.

Nicole Lewis: Especially if you're on desktop, play around with that. 

Nicole Lewis: Because if you start scrolling over some of the images, it's going to automatically start the video. 

Nicole Lewis: And that's going to catch somebody's eye. 

Nicole Lewis: Make it eye catching. 

Nicole Lewis: It's 15 seconds long on an Etsy listing, you need it.

Nicole Lewis: It's going to improve your ranking. 

Nicole Lewis: It's going to improve your position, and that quality score. 

Nicole Lewis: Another hot topic for Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: People feel very strongly for or against free shipping. 

Nicole Lewis: I have done free shipping up into, until this past Christmas. 

Nicole Lewis: After Christmas, I switched to $35 or more as a test for me.

Nicole Lewis: I was terrified. 

Nicole Lewis: That, "Oh, maybe people are going to buy other people's rainbow crayons instead of mine." 

Nicole Lewis: Now that I'm not doing free shipping. 

Nicole Lewis: Unless they do a $35 purchase. 

Nicole Lewis: It made no difference whatsoever. 

Nicole Lewis: I have more money in my pocket. 

Nicole Lewis: I am doing less work for more money. 

Nicole Lewis: And if people want to ship with a different brand or a different maker because of the free shipping, great.

Nicole Lewis: It is up to you to make sure that you are pricing your items correctly to make that work for you. 

Nicole Lewis: That's going to work out like [00:40:00] 95 to 99% of the time. 

Nicole Lewis: I know it doesn't work out for everybody that way. 

Nicole Lewis: But you are not pricing your items correctly if you can't afford to do free shipping. 

Nicole Lewis: Does that work for sticker people that have super light products?

Nicole Lewis: There are different occasions and there are exceptions for that. 

Nicole Lewis: But in general, you need to make sure that your pricing is right. 

Nicole Lewis: And you're going to do a disservice to yourself if you're not.

Nicole Lewis: Charge more. Charge more. Artists are not charging enough for their products.

Nicole Lewis: It, in the end, has a trickle effect. 

Nicole Lewis: It affects everything. 

Nicole Lewis: It affects every other seller on Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: It affects buyer decisions. 

Nicole Lewis: That's another topic I could talk about all day long. 

Nicole Lewis: But having free shipping and having the, I choose the $35 or more now. 

Nicole Lewis: And I didn't see much of a difference or drop off whatsoever.

Nicole Lewis: In fact, I've seen more sales. 

Nicole Lewis: And because people are buying, they have to buy two name crayons or two crayons to get to that free shipping. 

Nicole Lewis: It does make a difference for that listing quality score. 

Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. 

Brittany Herzberg: And I was just going to say again, from a buyer perspective, I am interested in your story.

Brittany Herzberg: I'm interested in your product. 

Brittany Herzberg: I'm interested if I'm actually going to get the thing and have a good experience. 

Brittany Herzberg: And if I am, I don't care about the shipping. 

Brittany Herzberg: If [00:41:00] I'm invested in, I like this, I want to get this. I want to work with you. 

Brittany Herzberg: It doesn't really matter. 

Brittany Herzberg: So, definitely price appropriately. 

Brittany Herzberg: And don't be worried that people aren't going to buy from you.

Nicole Lewis: I agree. 

Crystal Waddell: So how can people work with you? 

Crystal Waddell: And learn more about making their shop better? 

Crystal Waddell: I know it's scary right now, people are thinking, Oh, there's millions and millions of shops on Etsy. 

Crystal Waddell: How could I even get started or how could I even be successful on Etsy? 

Crystal Waddell: What would you say to that person and then how can they work with you?

Nicole Lewis: I would definitely take advantage of Etsy's education platform in the first place. 

Nicole Lewis: There's tons of videos out there from Etsy U instructors. 

Nicole Lewis: From Etsy directly. 

Nicole Lewis: I think as we're recording this today, Etsy is having a full conference called Etsy Up. 

Nicole Lewis: They do a couple times a year. 

Nicole Lewis: Where they're giving you actual trainings on SEO from Google. From Meta. 

Nicole Lewis: From the people that are making the decisions and doing the inner workings behind the scenes. 

Nicole Lewis: So, make sure you're taking advantage of actual Etsy [00:42:00] classes, first of all. 

Nicole Lewis: There's tons of coaches out there. 

Nicole Lewis: You don't have to pay hundreds of dollars to attend so and so's random knowledge base of Etsy stuff. 

Nicole Lewis: From what their opinions and their experiences are.

Nicole Lewis: Not to mock coaches whatsoever. 

Nicole Lewis: Because, I teach, too. 

Nicole Lewis: I say I'm not a coach. I teach, I offer one on one sessions with people.

Nicole Lewis: It's very interesting how I do this because I do teach for Etsy. 

Nicole Lewis: That's completely free. They don't pay me for it. 

Nicole Lewis: I teach for Etsy, but like I told you before, it's up to me to be able to use

Nicole Lewis: this to my advantage. 

Nicole Lewis: If I want some sort of monetary compensation, how can I use this? 

Nicole Lewis: My time is very valuable. 

Nicole Lewis: I need all the time to create my handmade products. 

Nicole Lewis: I don't have tons of time to have a one on one chat with somebody on Instagram. 

Nicole Lewis: Or, on Google or through an email for every single person.

Nicole Lewis: Imagine if all thousand people tried to talk to me afterwards via email or voice chat or whatnot. 

Nicole Lewis: It's overwhelming. 

Nicole Lewis: So my way of bridging the gap is, I offer one on ones. 

Nicole Lewis: Pick my brain sessions. 

Nicole Lewis: Basically, it can be anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour. 

Nicole Lewis: You can buy basically buy me a [00:43:00] cup of coffee and some child care because yes, those things cost money.

Nicole Lewis: My time is valuable. 

Nicole Lewis: You want to value your work as someone that has taken the time to learn this knowledge base. 

Nicole Lewis: But I have tiered pricing. 

Nicole Lewis: There's three different pricing options for an hour session with me.

Nicole Lewis: If you can afford the higher one and you have gotten to know me and value my time and you want to work with me and that's important to you, please choose the higher one. 

Nicole Lewis: If you are just starting off, but you really need questions of this and that answered. 

Nicole Lewis: But you can only afford the $30 option, great.

Nicole Lewis: But it's at least giving me some sort of compensation for taking the time out of my day to work with you. 

Nicole Lewis: And those options are available on my website art2theextreme.com. 

Nicole Lewis: It's usually with the number two, I have multiple websites. So however you want to type in arttotheextreme. com. 

Nicole Lewis: Or rainbowcrayons.com, it's going to come up for you. 

Nicole Lewis: And I would love to work with you one on one. 

Nicole Lewis: I can do an Etsy critique with you. 

Nicole Lewis: Or if you just have one or two questions or need contact info, I am your girl. 

Brittany Herzberg: That is amazing. Thank you so much for being here. 

Nicole Lewis: I love what you all do. I have been a long time listener. I [00:44:00] listen to every single episode. My kids in the car listening know you guys as well. 

Brittany Herzberg: Oh my gosh. 

Nicole Lewis: They're going to be thrilled to hear this. 

Brittany Herzberg: Mom was on the show. 

Crystal Waddell: Let's give them a shout out. 

Brittany Herzberg: What are their names? 

Crystal Waddell: Let's say, Hey. 

Nicole Lewis: Their names are William and Connor.

Brittany Herzberg: Hi, William and Connor. 

Crystal Waddell: Hey, William. Hey, Connor. Thanks for listening. 

Brittany Herzberg: Oh my gosh. That's so cool. 

Nicole Lewis: I love it. I love it. 

Crystal Waddell: Awesome. 

Crystal Waddell: I know if you were an Etsy seller, you cleaned up today. Okay. 

Crystal Waddell: Maybe listen to this again. 

Crystal Waddell: Check the show notes for Nicole's contact information. 

Crystal Waddell: And figure out what direction you want to go. 

Crystal Waddell: But just know that you don't have to do it alone.

Crystal Waddell: There are some great people out there. 

Crystal Waddell: Like Nicole that can really give you the guidance and stuff that you need to be successful. 

Crystal Waddell: So, we'll sign off and thank you guys so much for listening. 

Brittany Herzberg: Bye.