Join us as we discuss the impact and importance of SEO for entrepreneurs, especially for growing podcast visibility and building businesses without over reliance on social media.
Our guest today: Robyn Graham: a business growth strategist and coach who prioritizes building business foundations before emphasizing social media, giving importance to brand marketing strategies, systems, tools, processes, and especially SEO.
1. How to use SEO strategies for boosting online visibility and growth of podcasts and businesses?
2. There's not one path to entrepreneurship.
3. What (and why) to focus on SEO when optimizing your website:
4. How personal faith and personal branding intersect:Digital Trailblazer Podcast
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This transcript was machine generated and has not been fully edited. We apologize for any errors.
[00:00:00] Brittany Herzberg: All right, welcome back to the Simple and smart SEO show.
We have Crystal and Robin and Brittany. All of us are here.
We are gonna be talking about SEO for your podcast to help grow your podcast.
As well as building a business, really like without social media.
So we're gonna be talking about all that stuff. But say hi ladies.
[00:00:19] Robyn Graham: Hello.
[00:00:21] Crystal Waddell: Hi. That's the first time you've ever introduced yourself in the third person.
[00:00:24] Brittany Herzberg: I know. I was like, Oh, I'm here. I should say that. Yeah. It's funny.
I do the weirdest intros.
But anyway, we are here.
Robin, will you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do in the world?
[00:00:36] Robyn Graham: Yes, absolutely. So I am a business growth strategist and coach.
And my mission is to help entrepreneurs build their businesses without having an emphasis on social media.
I like to build the foundation first. And that incorporates brand marketing strategies, systems, tools, processes and especially, SEO.
[00:00:58] Brittany Herzberg: I love that. That was just like so seamless and so smooth. I love asking people this question, and there's no wrong answer.
You're in this world, so I'm sure you'll have a good answer.
But how do you explain SEO to your clients, to business owners? What do you say when people are like, what's SEO?
[00:01:14] Robyn Graham: I keep it pretty simple. I am all about simplicity.
And I just say it's how people find you. Online.
The world is so inundated with you have to be on social media and nobody's going to find you if you're not on social media.
That's what search engine optimization is.
It's how you optimize your website. So people find you. And it's a strategy, but it doesn't have to be complicated.
[00:01:38] Brittany Herzberg: Yes. Oh, thank you for saying that. I say that all the time, but it's so refreshing to hear it from someone else too. Yeah. Yeah.
I was listening to you on a LinkedIn live with our mutual friend, Tanya.
I, one of the things you shared about was like your journey into how you got into podcasting. And we have a lot of like touch points there.
So I would love if you would share a little bit about like how you became an entrepreneur and what led you into podcasting because you and I both were like public speaking.
No, thank you.
[00:02:08] Robyn Graham: Yeah, absolutely. So long story short, I have a doctorate in pharmacy by degree and when I had my own business.
I've been an entrepreneur for almost 25 years, but my, I've always had anxiety my whole entire life, sometimes more severe than others.
I have a book called you me and anxiety that shares my journey and also offers tools and tips and things like that for navigating anxiety.
But. Public speaking was something that I could not do because of that anxiety. And then In my career, when my son was maybe 12 years old, we started seeing really significant science of anxiety in him.
And I thought, no way, not on my watch. He's not going to have to live a life like I lived with anxiety.
So my husband and I, who has this, he has the same degree as I do. And he's worked in corporate, he traveled 50 percent globally.
We had no family where we live. We decided that I would follow my passion to become a professional photographer.
Okay, this is crazy.
Talk about completely changing my identity, but I've always had both that the scientific strategic side. Plus the creative side of my brain.
So I stepped totally outside of my comfort zone.
And I became a professional photographer focused on branding and headshot photography.
And that led me to coaching because I realized so many people had no idea one, how to use images for SEO.
Two, how to build a foundation for their business so that they could grow longterm.
And I had built out my SEO strategy so that I was ranked number one on Google.
So many people from all over the area were finding me for their headshots and their branding photography.
I saw how it worked and as I was writing my book, I was like, okay, now I'm consulting and coaching.
At the same time, I'm doing photography and becoming an author.
I can't do it all. And so I decided to have more of an impact. I would step away from the photography. And focus solely on the coaching and consulting part.
And that I became a certified brand strategist. And what happened with that? It's funny, Brittany, and crystal.
I realized that there's so much talk about branding.
But people confuse what branding actually is. And I'm like, I'm not a graphic designer. I am not someone that decides on colors, fonts, designs, websites, and all that.
So I had to navigate that and step away from that a little bit because I was personal branding.
I wasn't like all those other things.
But the long and the short of it is.
I got into podcast because when I was in the photography space, I had three friends and we decided that we were going to get together I don't know, once a week, biweekly, something like that.
And have our own little mini mastermind.
And all of these people in the community, when we would go to networking events, they would say, we want in.
How can we be part of this? You guys have so much fun. And your businesses are growing. We want to be with you.
And we were like, how can we do this? We didn't want to have to create events and all the logistics.
So me being the complete introvert, terrified of public speaking said, why don't we start a podcast? And their draw their jaws dropped.
What? Who are you? And so we did, we started a podcast and it was really cool because there were four of us.
We were four chicks chatting. That podcast has not been like available since.
I think 2020 is when we all decided we were going to go our separate ways.
And not for any negative aspect, but our businesses had all just grown and we were being pulled in so many directions.
Which is a really cool thing to have happen. So from there, I started my own podcast, the Robin Graham show.
And having been successful with three other people, I was going to determine to make this successful for myself.
And we focus on business strategies, mindset, mental health, faith.
All of those aspects in one umbrella on the show, but SEO has been a significant part of really getting the word out and reaching the masses, I would say.
And it's really helped me navigate that fear of public speaking because now I'm on so often.
And then guesting too is the same as public speaking.
This is a form of public speaking. So it just really breaks down that fear and anxiety.
The barriers that were holding you back or holding me back.
But now I'm able to step into this.
Yeah, and that's funny too, because I was the one that was like, we should record our conversations!
And Crystal was like, Are you sure?
You're saying this? Because I'm an introvert.
I still remember, and I think I've shared this before on the show, but I honestly would log on for the video calls.
And I would black out for the entire time we were recording. I would turn bright red. I wouldn't remember if I said anything intelligible.
Until I went back and listened to the show and I was like.
Oh, that was okay. But I would not remember anything. And it probably happened for six months, the first six months of the show.
But I was like, this is cool. People are learning. People are liking, what we're saying. We're getting good feedback.
So yeah, it's really funny to hear someone else say that too.
[00:06:54] Crystal Waddell: That's so sweet because even knowing you like I always felt like you were, confident enough. You know what I mean? You weren't like obnoxious or anything.
But you've always been beyond competent to me in every facet of your life, yeah.
[00:07:09] Brittany Herzberg: That's so sweet.
[00:07:10] Crystal Waddell: You're welcome.
But when you were talking about growing long term.
And you saw how SEO worked, what did you see? As soon as you said that popped out to me, you're like, I was, getting found on page one for all these things. And I saw how it worked.
How did it work?
[00:07:26] Robyn Graham: It's visibility in a nutshell. It's visibility.
You put the effort in.
And that's what I like to talk about so much. Is, when you look at building a business on social media, only 2 percent of your followers are going to see it.
And any of that could disappear, at any given point in time.
You could be hacked, it could go down.
But when you build that foundation on your website with SEO.
You have long term availability, visibility.
And that visibility is. from anywhere at any time. There are no limitations. People can find you all over the world at any time of the day.
And so what I saw was this increase in visibility.
And anytime you rank on Google high on the first page, you know that people are going to Click on your link.
Because over 97 percent of people click on those top links.
And they trust those people that are on the top because that means that other people are going to that site as well.
It means Google trust them. It means they're producing good content or providing value.
And so ultimately, I would say that was it. I saw that my SEO strategy was helping me increase my visibility and people were seeing me as an authority in my space.
[00:08:39] Crystal Waddell: Okay, I'm all about that tactical, practical knowledge.
Like what were you doing specifically on your website that was getting ranked on that first page?
You know what specifically you did that was giving you that success and that visibility?
[00:08:54] Robyn Graham: Absolutely.
So every page had the SEO title that the Meta descriptions, all of that juicy stuff from a technical perspective.
But I also had a strategy when I wrote blog posts.
So I was creating new content on a relatively frequent basis.
Like once a week or, minimum every other week I was writing blog posts.
And then with the podcast, I was using that as evergreen content as blog posts as well.
So I wasn't just putting up these minuscule show notes.
I was actually creating an SEO blog post, but the key was not only putting it up there, but having the SEO strategy in it.
So headers subheadings, and then linking from one blog post to another blog post to keep people on my site longer.
So when Google came to my site, when someone typed in headshot photographer Doylestown.
Everything on my website led Google to send me to them.
[00:09:51] Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. You mentioned SEO for images as well, and I love talking about this because it is, it feels like one of those really heavy, robust SEO tasks, but it can be, it can have a huge payoff, and I've even seen the payoff.
For an example, I've seen my photo from my services page show up in the Google search for healthcare copywriter in the photos, like at the top.
So what, can you tell us a little bit about how to optimize images or what you do to optimize images for SEO?
[00:10:23] Robyn Graham: Yeah. And I can't not say that was a huge part of being found because when I did a headshot of someone or a branding photo of someone that was in the alt text and it was in the description as well as the title.
So it was just another source of letting Google know what I was doing.
And when you put a photo on your website, first of all, you want to make sure the size is not too big because that's going to slow down your site and speed does affect the optimization. And I would say for that, no more than 800 by 800 pixels.
And then You have your alt text. Alt text. Most people don't know what that is, but it is text that is there for non sighted people to be able to understand what is in that image or the graphic.
So, whether you're using infographics or something pretty you made in Canva, just as a filler on your post or your page, or it's a picture of you, you have an opportunity to be very specific about what's in that image and use your keywords and key phrases there.
The same goes true with the description.
And that is how, when you have that, does that in the description to you're more likely to come up on those searches.
So, it's really key to have all that information there.
And it's funny because when you do a report on SEMRush, GeoMetrix, any of those.
If you don't have all text on an image, it's going to come up as there's no All text on this image or all text is lacking.
So it is important to do that.
[00:11:54] Crystal Waddell: Okay, so when you would take other people's photos like for a branding photo shoot and you would name them.
What would you name them and what would you put in the alt text?
[00:12:05] Robyn Graham: Depends on who the person was. But say I was doing a headshot for a pharmaceutical executive.
Which was quite common because I, where I live is like the pharmaceutical Mecca.
But, I would could say for the alt text, I may say like Robin Graham, headshot photographer, Doylestown, Pennsylvania, took a headshot of a pharmaceutical executive.
She is wearing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
She has dark hair, blue eyes. She's smiling. She's looking slightly camera left, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It took me time, but I was determined.
And so anybody that came to my site who was non sighted could figure out who this or what this person looked like, what they were wearing, all those details, but having that in the, headshot photographer.
in there was a bonus for me. And then for the title, I may say headshot of pharmaceutical executive or headshot by professional headshot photographer.
It just depends because I don't I tried to mix it up a little bit. I didn't use the same thing every single time. Because I didn't want Google to think I was so I would mix it up.
It just depended on who the client was and what message I wanted to convey.
If I was using that in the blog post, then I would use the keywords, key phrases that were in the blog post. So maybe it was what to wear for a headshot. Or, tips or ideas for a branding photo shoot.
So I would incorporate whatever that the page or the content was in those keywords or key phrases where it would be incorporated into that.
[00:13:39] Brittany Herzberg: I would love for you because I think we did this quite a while ago on the show, but like I would love for you to give us like the SEO title in the meta description.
Where does it show up and what do they do? What function do they perform?
[00:13:53] Robyn Graham: So yeah, I just love all this stuff.
[00:13:56] Brittany Herzberg: We're all geeking out happily.
[00:13:58] Robyn Graham: When you google something. So, say you typed into google, " christian business coach."
This is something i'm ranked for so say you typed in christian business coach in the seo title is going to come up as Whatever title you have for your page.
It could be the h1 header. However, you're limited to spaces So if your h1 header or your title of your post or your page is longer Than what the seo title is those words are going to get cut off.
So you have to be mindful of that but you want to have your keyword or keyphrase in that seo title. And it's going to show up.
So when you go to Type something into Google and you get the results. You're going to see that SEO title there. Just beneath that, you're going to see the meta description.
And you want your keyword or keyphrase in that meta description too. So it gives you a synopsis of what that topic of a blog post is, what they're going to find when they click on that link.
If you have a featured image, With alt text and a description and a title.
That is also going to show up next to that Title the SEO title so you have an opportunity to really showcase Who you are and what you're talking about on your site.
Just by putting that detail into the back end of your site.
[00:15:13] Brittany Herzberg: I love that and I have One of the things that I've tried to do, like a spin, I've tried to put on meta descriptions. Is writing like I'm writing to the person.
So I want them to be reading it and feel like I'm talking to them.
Because that just like resonates on a different level.
But there are character count like maximums for both of these things and that's something that I'm pretty sure Crystal and I both, I know mine definitely has that on like our SEO checklist so if you guys want to check that out, make sure to do that.
[00:15:39] Robyn Graham: Yeah. And the other thing is to what I often do is because your H2 header is a great SEO. What do I want to say? Attractor.
Yeah, great opportunity for keywords, key phrases too.
But I will actually ask a question or I'll leave with what my ideal clients pain points are in that H two title.
And then I can use that in the meta description too.
So it's not like doing double duty. You can simplify, your process when creating this additional content for SEO.
[00:16:13] Brittany Herzberg: That's a really smart idea.
[00:16:15] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, that was a fun takeaway right there. I'm definitely be using that later today when I'm writing a blog!
Were you aware of SEO and like local SEO when you had your brick and mortar pharmacy ?
Were you doing anything with SEO at that point in time?
[00:16:31] Robyn Graham: So I never had my own pharmacy. I was always more on the consulting side of things. I was more clinical.
And then when I started working for myself, I was a medical writer and consultant. So I'm so much older than you guys are.
And you're going to be like dumbfounded when I say this, but with my medical writing business, I didn't even have a website.
So I was all word of mouth because I didn't need it.
I honestly didn't need it. Like I had a doctorate in pharmacy.
I had a marketing background and I and a managed care background.
So I was like this hot commodity. And agencies were coming to me in addition to networking and just knowing a lot of people in the industry.
So linked in was a bonus for me then, but I didn't have a website.
So it wasn't until I became a photographer that SEO became important to me. And that's when I started it.
So this was like 13 years ago, 14 years ago, something like that. That's when it became really important to me.
However, I have clients that are brick and mortars and we do, I help them with their SEO to make sure that people can find them.
And again, it's that the local having the address of your place of business.
Talking about it in your like, say, you're about page or even on your home page. And just having that town or the location incorporated in is influential for the sEO.
[00:17:56] Crystal Waddell: I think it's interesting how we were talking about the lack or you don't need social media as much as you think you do.
And so I wanted I want to dive back into what you're talking about being this commodity and you know how people were seeking you out.
What did you do? To build that reputation for yourself. Was it because you were so specific in what you offered as a service?
And, that was just like the right place, right time situation?
Or, what kind of marketing were you doing for yourself at that time that really got you in front of the right decision makers?
[00:18:30] Robyn Graham: I always believe everything happens for a reason. And when we moved to Pennsylvania from ST Louis, my company that I was working for didn't have a job for me in P. A.
And I had just had a baby. So we were moving far away from family and all of this.
But my boss of someone who owned a med like marketing company for pharmaceutical companies in my area.
And he introduced us.
As luck would have it people that I worked with there enjoyed working with me, were impressed with me and, took me out with the clients.
I traveled with them and everything, but then I grew my network. That way.
And if they left to go to another company, they took me with them.
So those opportunities came by building relationships, I would say, which is key.
Now we say, okay, we can build relationships on social media, but there's also a lot of other ways to build relationships.
This is a great way of building relationships, commenting on LinkedIn, going into messages and not selling.
But just getting to know someone or commenting.
Like Brittany, you posted last week about reading. But, oh, we're kindred spirits. And I think I forgot to go back and respond to you afterwards because I got busy and forgot it was the long weekend.
But when you have an emotional connection with someone, tell them. You can build something.
Also, in person networking is huge. Speaking is another thing.
And I know, ah, that was terrifying before, but now it's okay, yeah, sure, I'll be your keynote speaker.
But it's a great opportunity to be front and center and really showcase your authority, but then build those relationships and follow up.
[00:20:06] Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, I could not agree more and actually, you were saying that you're older than me and you've been doing business longer than me.
For sure and I didn't have a website for the first I think two or three years that I had my massage practice.
So I had a massage practice and it technically started in 2013 I was working with a couple different chiropractors.
But for a lot of it I had to find my own clients and get them to trust me and come see me and book With me.
So I don't think it actually might have been four years before I had my own website. And a lot of it was specifically at this one chiropractic office, I did all the jobs except adjust people.
So you would see me in the rehab section of the office, you would see me like behind the computer or like on the phone with someone.
And I was always talking to people and I have always just loved meeting people, hearing their stories, learning more about them. And I retain a lot of that information.
Talk about relationship building. And building trust. I just showed up. I said hi. I, if someone was like messing with their hand or something, it's Hey, Do you want me to massage it a little bit?
And that grew into, oh, I'm going to book with you like three times a month or whatever, and come see you for 90 minutes.
And then they're going out and they're like evangelizing for you. They're, building, they're like you're on street marketers.
And that's really what's happening. Whether it's a client, a peer a mentor, whoever it may be.
So like, we cannot under undervalue. That relationship building part of things.
And like you said, you can take that online for sure. But there is a nice balance that we can strike of like in person and online networking stuff.
And I want to add to that for me, because a lot of people think, Oh, I can start my business on Facebook. Sure. You can start your business on Facebook.
But what I say to that is that you are more likely to have success off of Facebook.
Than you are spinning your wheels on Facebook because most of the time, what I've discovered over the years, and this is back when I was a photographer, people would put in the, like the town Facebook page, looking for a photographer for headshots.
Guess what? I was the best and I charged probably the most. They didn't want to work with me.
They weren't going to Facebook to find that we're going to Facebook to find a deal. So you're actually, I think hurting yourself when you're trying to grow your business on a platform like Facebook, because you're not showing that.
You're the expert. You're the authority. When you have a website. And I think it worked for both of us in the times that we were working.
And building networks, building a relationships, which I still do that to this day. But when you have a website, you really do look like you're the authority or you're an expert.
And if there's someone in your niche that doesn't have a website.
And, they're comparing their facebook page to your website, you're going to win. Thank you. It's like walking down the street on vacation. Are you going to go in the shop that is run down and dilapidated and looks like you could fall through the steps?
Are you going to go into the, at the flower boxes and they're pretty and they're bright and they're colorful.
And someone's there waiting at the door to greet you.
It's the same concept when you're building your business, the foundation. Has to come first.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, especially like thinking about my boyfriend and I are like still new ish to Connecticut.
We've been here for a year, but even still, I don't know my way around everywhere. I don't know necessarily the best chocolate place. Although I have some good recommendations, but if I'm looking for something specific, I'm going online.
I want to see what they have. And yeah, for the most part, if someone has a website versus a Facebook page.
We do often go to the place with the website because there's more on there.
There's, it's just, it has a, to your point, it has a different feel to it. And it does give you the sense of I've got some sense of authority.
Or I know what I'm doing. And you can trust me and you can come in here and have a good experience.
[00:23:48] Robyn Graham: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:23:50] Crystal Waddell: I think sometimes when people when they're like, I'm going to start an online business.
It's got this connotation that when you start a business that's based online. That everything has to be done online.
And so that's why I'm really loving this conversation because That's not necessarily true.
And just for context, I recently joined our chamber of commerce in the area and I've yet to go to a meeting.
I'm still like bracing myself to go to a meeting. I was like, why is it so hard? But everything that I've done.
Up until this point has really been online.
Like I'm an e commerce seller. So I've sold on Etsy. I build Shopify stores, everything is at home.
And B will tell you most of the time I don't brush my hair.
So it's Oh, I actually have to make an effort to leave the house.
And so that's, I think it's just worth exploring here. Just because you're an online business owner doesn't mean that those in person strategies of networking. Are like, not for you. You know what I mean? They are for you. So do you have any tips for us online business owners who are struggling to take a shower?
[00:24:55] Robyn Graham: Okay. So first, you made me think of something.
And I want to say that I see a lot of websites that don't have an image of you.
Not you guys, but I want to emphasize this because just because you're on an online business doesn't mean you get to hide.
People need to get to know you.
They need to see your eyes and your smile. They're the gateway to your soul, and that's how you're going to build trust.
So your homepage and your about page should have pictures of you that, of course, are SEO optimized.
So I want to emphasize that.
That being online isn't an excuse to hide. And as far as stepping out of your comfort zone and going to these events.
I think you have to, for somebody who has anxiety like me and who's an introvert.
I have to really psych myself up to do that.
And it really is. It's just okay, this day I'm going to get dressed. I'm going to do my hair.
I'm going to leave the house and I'm going to meet people because it's going to be beneficial to my business.
Which means that I'm going to help my family. I'm going to help, provide resources.
I'm going to help more people just by being present, whatever. So you talk yourself up like that.
But then if it's a real struggle to do that same day, take advantage of being dressed up. Do some video creation.
Maybe that's a day that you schedule an extra podcast interview or you make an appointment with someone that you're meeting on zoom.
Just to get, take advantage of the fact that you did your hair and your makeup and you got dressed.
[00:26:26] Brittany Herzberg: Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm going to go and do the thing and then clear out the rest of the day because I'm going to need time to recover.
Because I get so psyched up and then I'm like, and we're just, chilling for the day.
[00:26:35] Robyn Graham: That's really more like it. It's okay, that's my excuse to go to HomeGoods or something.
Yeah. Or I'm completely brainless. But I'm just trying to give ideas. It's one of those things that I know it's hard.
And then, but the other thing for me, and I have to say, and I know not everybody's like me. I had a coach one time who she wears her pajama pants every single day, all day.
And I, I can't do that. Like I have to get dressed to motivate myself.
So I may not have makeup on my hair, maybe in a ponytail, but I have to like, at least feel like I'm dressed like a business person to motivate myself.
I don't know. I think better. I'm more motivated. I'm more focused So I think it's six to one half a dozen to the other like how do you do this?
I think it's like you put your big girl pants on. You get dressed for a day and you go out. I don't know.
[00:27:22] Brittany Herzberg: And as another option I wear yoga pants every single day, but I do take a shower in the morning.
We're all winning one way or another.
[00:27:28] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, we are. And I I quit teaching a couple of years ago and so it was a kind of a rough transition because I was a PE teacher.
I taught special needs PE. And so I was constantly traveling from school to school.
And then I would, help out in the PE classes. So it was super active. And then I come to this job where I'm like looking at my computer most of the day.
And I stopped wearing my apple watch because I was so embarrassed about how few times I actually got up and moved around.
And so that wasn't like the best, technique to improve my health.
But it was just so shocking to me that I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm turning into.
It's not a couch potato.
Yeah. It was like a chair potato
or something, I don't know.
So it was like I was fighting that particular thing.
And then, now that I have a business that's more relevant to my local community with the SEO.
I'm like, there's businesses right up the road that I could just walk into and say.
Hey, I do SEO, has anybody done your Google business listing or whatever?
But it's overcoming all of those things.
Like you said, I love the practical tips of talking myself up okay.
Just go in there and then make friends at the chamber of commerce meetings.
That's my goal.
I'm not going there to sell my services. But I want to be a resource because I feel like so many local businesses especially have no idea of how to maximize the internet for their own businesses.
[00:28:55] Robyn Graham: Absolutely. And, I talk a lot about this in my book too, because you really have to navigate the fear and the doubt.
And if you can put yourself do those an exercise in your head where yeah, you say, okay.
I'm afraid to go somebody might think I'm weird, or, whatever, and then you talk to yourself.
Okay, would my best friend be having these same thoughts about me?
No, she wouldn't. She would be encouraging me, telling me, no, you're gonna rock it, you're a rock star, you're amazing, go do it.
And then change those thoughts in your head.
When you challenge those negative thoughts, the fearful thoughts, the doubtful thoughts, you're gonna be more likely to take that first step to walk out the door and go to the meeting.
But the other thing is, too.
Is that look at it as an opportunity for growth, but also give yourself the grace that if you're scared or unsure.
Or you get there and you're uncomfortable and nobody's talking to you, you don't have to stay.
You can exit, Irish goodbye, sneak out the door.
You don't have to put yourself into a position where it's this awful thing.
If it doesn't feel good, then leave. But you can also set yourself up for success by just saying, okay, I'm going to look decent.
I'm going to go, I'm going to shake someone's hand, make eye contact. And if I need one person, that I have an opportunity to help.
Or that's going to tell someone else about me.
I've won and you can leave after that because it can be very anxiety provoking.
But you have to give yourself the opportunity to just step into it before you can decide it's not going to be worth it.
That's a really good point.
As you guys were talking about that, I was thinking about stuff that I've done even here being like a new kid in town because I wear that hat a lot.
[00:30:35] Brittany Herzberg: But something that I've done is even just going and thinking of it, for me, it calms my heartbeat down. If I'm just like, I'm going in, I'm going to go try a thing.
I'm going to go try this acupuncturist. I'm going to go try this like chocolate shop. And then you connect with them or whatever there.
And then you take that online. I've done that so often.
Where I know like social media isn't everything, but that is has been a place for me where I have built a lot of relationships.
And I've shared it before, but like when I was on Instagram, I think for the first two, three years that I was on Instagram, I was just like, I want to be friends.
Oh, I like what you're doing. I didn't talk about business like for a second.
And I was like, Oh, that's a wasted opportunity. But still, when I think of it, connection, collaboration, relationship building.
That's Always like the first thing that I think and then I'm like, Oh, yeah, by the way, I could help you with this thing.
But even if you never say a word of what you do and how you can help someone, they will remember you.
They will remember that interaction and that could work wonders for you.
Even just if they, like Robin was saying, recommend you or refer you to somebody.
[00:31:35] Robyn Graham: And that's where, Brittany, I love LinkedIn for that very reason.
Like I did a speaking engagement last week. It was virtual.
But afterwards, I wrote down everybody's names and afterwards I went and connected with everybody on LinkedIn.
So even if they're not going to hire me today, they have now met me. They've seen my bio on LinkedIn.
And they have easy access to me.
They don't have to remember my website.
They don't have to remember my email, but now they have a connection point.
And I think that's really important for building those relationships. You can do that on social media.
And I'm not like totally anti social media, but I just feel like there's too much emphasis on it to grow a business.
And a lot of people, especially like my generation.
They don't want to be on social media. We have to be on there to check what our kids are doing.
But I don't want to be on there all day, every day. Yeah. And
[00:32:25] Crystal Waddell: I think it's I think it's really good to differentiate like how you use social media.
Because what you're saying it's yeah, use social media, but don't build your business on social media.
And that's what we've talked about before too. It's why SEO is such a passion project for us because we've both experienced the negatives of social media and then also the advantages of a website that's working for you 24/7 and so that's like the information that we want to share.
So I think it's important to know that it's like, Hey, it's not, don't ever go on social media.
But it just makes sure that I like to say, give it a job, make it work for you versus you're working for it.
Or worrying about the algorithm or whatever. Like whenever I see those comments from people about oh, this big algorithm shift or whatever.
I'm not degrading anybody who's concerned about that.
But my thought is, look, if you put out information that is brand building for your business, and that is always relevant to your business and your buyer.
You don't have to stress about algorithm changes because you are the one constant thing.
Algorithms will always change, but as long as you know who you are and what you're selling, and who is buying your stuff, then you're in good shape no matter what happens on any platform. So that's the position I've always taken.
But I wanted to ask you about the speaking part of things.
Because, as we've done more on the podcast.
We've also had, a few opportunities to speak in different places.
And I was just curious, do you have any tips for aspiring speakers.
Or like where to find more opportunities to grow this skill that we're building?
[00:34:03] Robyn Graham: Yeah. So I like to approach it as telling a story. You want to connect with your audience and the best way to do that is telling stories.
And I think sometimes people think, ah, they're always talking about telling stories.
But if you think about it since you were a child, that's how you connected the dots with the world and people.
And it really does help as you're speaking to when you tell a story, it brings people into you, but it relaxes you because it's a It's something you're comfortable with.
You're confident with.
I do like to remind people that you were asked to speak because someone sees you as an authority.
Someone sees you as an expert already. And even if you sit in this place of what if people in the audience don't agree with me? What if they think I'm wrong? What if they call me out?
That's okay. Then that's them. It's not on you. And you can always, if you're an expert and authority in what you're speaking on.
You can feel confident in the fact that the other people, everyone else in the room, is there to see you. And they already trust you. They have either paid for their ticket or they've taken the time to show up there.
They're invested in learning from you.
So when you think of it as in that regards, it takes away some of that stress and anxiety. Now I'm saying all this and I have a keynote address or speaking engagement in next month.
And I'm already like, okay, how am I going to do this? How am I going to structure it?
All day, every day in the back of my mind. But the reality is that the people that asked me to do this, see me as an expert business owner in our local community.
I didn't even know they knew who I was. So it tells you the power of what you are putting out there online.
The other thing is too, when it comes to speaking I always encourage everyone to have a call to action.
When you have a call to action at the end, you can bring those people into your community.
And now they've heard you speak. They're probably hanging on every word that you just said.
And now you can bring them into your community. So I always encourage you to give them something invite them to download an ebook or something that you can then get their email address.
And the cool thing is now, like with Bitly.
You can create a QR code and you have that on your slides to say, go here to download this free blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. On what I'm speaking about.
And then they're in your community and you can continue to nurture them.
And hopefully then later convert them to paying clients.
[00:36:26] Brittany Herzberg: I like that. I found it so much easier to both show up and speak on a subject as well as pitching myself for a thing.
Once I figured out what it was that I wanted to talk about. So you were talking about like showing up and talking about SEO and geeking out on all of that. I love that.
I love showing people the basics, showing them it doesn't have to be so hard.
So that's one of like my speaking topics that I can pitch.
Also then, like, how to write case studies with SEO and storytelling. So it's once I had those things, it's I feel so confident.
I don't even have to really prep anymore, unless there's something new that I'm learning or something new that I want to weave in.
Then I might pause and practice that a little bit.
But it's so easy now and it's so it's something I feel really confident about whereas previously I was like I don't want to really talk about you want me to show up?
What am I supposed to say?
And that's also too one thing that I love is I love questions and I joke about it But I love questions because I want to know that what i'm saying is actually what you want to hear.
So no matter what kind of speaking i'm doing I always weave in some time for q a building and that's something I even make sure with the Event host before I plan this thing.
I'm like, it's okay if I have a Q and a time, right? Because it's going to happen.
And everyone is always so grateful for that because guess what if people are like you said they're showing up.
They're interested in the subject.
They maybe even have heard your name or done a little research on who you are and what you're about they're going to come in with questions.
Or what you're going to say is going to spark some kind of question in their brain.
So I love that. And that's one thing that's worked really well for me. Yeah, I agree. I think curiosity is key, right?
You become curious about your audience and you understand who you're speaking to.
And then you can almost prepare right for what they want to hear what they want a solution for.
And then the more curious you become of who they are and what they need, it's easier to prepare for that talk. But also when you speak and you hinted to this, when you speak on something that you're passionate about.
It becomes 10 times easier. If you asked me to talk about, I don't know, how to grow grass, I'd be like.
I don't even know where to begin.
And then it becomes just regurgitating what I researched. And then that's not effective.
But when you speak from a place of passion. And around something that you do every single day. It really helps you.
And if people are curious about speaking, start in your local community. Talk about something that you love and you're passionate about.
Like Crystal, you could go and offer to speak to the chamber.
That's, they always have these small groups that they offer presentations to.
To help the community learn and grow. Sometimes their lunch and learns, things like that.
Start small and then gradually build up.
And again, that all happens through word of mouth, and you can always ask the person to refer you to somebody else.
If you want more speaking engagements.
[00:39:13] Crystal Waddell: Okay, so I have what might be a little bit of a controversial
[00:39:18] Robyn Graham: question, but since you're here... You've been loving these recently.
[00:39:22] Crystal Waddell: I know I'm not contrary.
But it's a personal question, too.
Because you're here.
And I feel like I just got this email recently from a couple that I follow on. I don't know.
You don't even know how I got their stuff.
But, a few weeks ago, actually, they sent me an email and I was like, Oh my gosh, do you watch elevation church?
Because it sounded familiar to something I had seen. And they're like, yeah, sometimes.
And then I thought.
I wonder if they're scared that I asked them that because it's you don't know what's coming next.
Whether you should say yes or no, or whatever. And then just recently, a couple of days ago, they sent out this other email.
And it was like about how their faith played a role in their business.
And, I haven't always been a Christian. It was like, when I was 27. A lot of things happened to me personally.
But I have felt very hesitant about admitting that publicly. I actually got very sick in 2020 because of the conflict of wanting to just contribute to the online conversation while at the same time, sometimes feeling minimized because I had chosen a faith that seems to have not kept pace with culture.
And so I'm just as you're a christian mindset coach, I'm just like, how, and you're also a scientist, which I'm over here, just, balancing those two things in my mind.
I'm just like how did you navigate that? And how did you grow your business online and maintain your confidence?
through all of that.
[00:40:47] Robyn Graham: Oh, this is such a great question. And I love to talk about faith. So for me, this is okay, come on, let's talk.
I don't find it as controversy. I think there are people out there that, and I see this point blank. If someone comes to me, I'll say, okay, so You know I'm not sure if you looked at my website or not, but I am a Christian and I do bring my faith into my business.
And I will say to you right now, like before I do something, and sometimes I forget before, but I'll do it in the middle.
I'll just say, okay, Holy spirit guide me and help me be. Like who you want me to be and say what you want me to say today. So the fact that this question came up is probably the Holy Spirit saying, okay, tell your story.
So I didn't always have faith forefront in my business.
But what I discovered was that money mindset blocks just navigating. And I think what really made a difference for me was when I wrote my book. And how much reflecting back on my life, faith has been such a strong component of my life. And my survival.
If I had not had my faith, I don't know if I'd be here today. The reality is that we go through so many different things in life.
And I find that my faith gives me hope.
And I need hope every day in my business, right? I need hope that I'm going to say the right things, do the right things, attract the right people.
And there are a lot of people. And I think, Crystal you really hit the nail on the head when you said it's a faith that hasn't kept up with the culture.
However, if you read the Bible. And I love Elevation Church, by the way, I listen all the time when I'm walking my dog. His sermons are amazing.
But when you know that, like. All of these issues we're dealing with today were prophesied about in the Bible, all of them.
And, all of the things, like, all of these pop culture issues. We're in the discussed in the Bible, so I feel like, yes, okay, I am scientific, but I also believe that God created the earth.
And then just because he created it, not everything stayed exactly the same. Scientifically things mutate. That, genes mutate microbials mutate. There's all these things that over time change and mutate. But I look at that as. He has ultimate control. He has all the power.
And so any of these things that happen, we can refer to him and say, you know what?
I don't have to be afraid because he's got this and he's got me.
And, so many of my clients come to me and yes, they're building their business and that's our priority.
But mindset is One of their biggest hangups, they have everything they need. But they're stuck and they're stuck because their mindset.
And so when I'm able to bring in like Robin Romans 12 to and say or 12 Yeah, 12 to you know where it talks about transforming your mind Like our brain is so miraculous that we can change the neural pathways in our brain. Like it was created that way from birth.
And so to be able to reflect on that is to me, so powerful. And so somebody asked me one time aren't you afraid to have that on your website?
Like you're going to be judged.
And I'm like, you know what, if I'm judged for that, I'm okay with that.
Because that's a good thing. And it's part of me. And if people don't want to work with me because I'm a Christian, that's okay.
That's okay. That's their choice. I'm not forcing it down anybody's throat.
I'm honest. I'm transparent. And if they're okay with that and they're not a Christian, then great. They're welcome in my world.
I don't care, if it gives me an opportunity to witness. But I'm not going to witness in a way that is slam it down your throat.
Like I'll teach and encourage, and I'll bring it into play. But I'm not gonna force it down somebody's throat. And I think that's the difference.
And I think also is, when you're, you talk the talk, you walk the walk. So many times I think Christians have such a bad rap because they do seem judgmental.
They do seem condemning. That's not my approach. That's not my job. That's God's job.
I think if you're just walking your walk and, living according to what you believe, you don't have anything to be afraid of.
[00:44:59] Brittany Herzberg: And I would even say that it helped if I'm, there have been times where I am asked hey, do you know a Christian mom coach. I do.
Do you know a Christian business coach? I do.
So it even makes you to weave this back into SEO. It even makes you a little bit more findable.
Because if that's something that's important to you and it is in the forefront and it is important to this other person who's looking for a connection.
Hello. Like it really helps. So I would not let that hold you back.
Especially with it being so important to you because it does help. Everyone involved.
The people who are doing the looking, the people who are running their businesses that way. It helps everything.
[00:45:40] Robyn Graham: Yeah.
[00:45:41] Crystal Waddell: Thanks guys.
[00:45:42] Brittany Herzberg: You're welcome. We can go out and crush this day now.
[00:45:45] Crystal Waddell: Yeah.
Okay. So Robyn, you're awesome. Can you tell people how, they can find you and work with you and let me write your information down.
[00:45:54] Robyn Graham: Absolutely. So the easiest way to find me and everything about me is my website. TheRobynGraham.com and Robyn with a Y and Graham is just like the Graham cracker.
So TheRobynGraham.Com. And you can find free resources there.
There is a video on intro to SEO for entrepreneurs.
Very simplified so that anybody could understand it and start implementing an SEO strategy today.
And then there's an ebook as well on growing your business, 10 strategies with growing your business without having to be on social media.
So there's a couple of ebooks there, but really you can find a podcast there.
We're launching a mastermind this fall. It's the first group mastermind that we're doing and the focus is all on not being on social media.
So if you're interested in that.
Anyway, it's all on the website. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm really glad.
We had like a wonderful conversation. It's one of my favorites. Oh, good. I'm honored that you invited me, so thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thanks Tanya, too.
Hopefully I'll have to tell her to listen to this one.
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. All right, we will catch you next time.