Join us for a conversation with business owner and dentist, Dr. Jasmine Elmore.
Jasmine defines SEO: the process of making unfindable content findable.
Connect with Jasmine:
Jasmine Personal IG
Jasmine is transitioning from a mindset of serving everyone in a healthcare-related field to adopting a more business-oriented approach.
How to recognize the value of specialized skills and charging premium rates:
Storytelling is an effective tool for engaging audiences:
How to generate and use social proof effectively.
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This transcript is machine generated and has not been edited for errors.
Brittany Herzberg: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO show.
We're here with, truly, one of my friends and actually my first copywriting client.
I don't know if you know that Jasmine, but Jasmine Elmore is in the house and Crystal is, too.
Crystal Waddell: Jasmine, I'm so glad you're here, girl. This is going to be so much fun.
Jasmine Elmore: This is going to be awesome. I'm so excited.
Brittany Herzberg: It's going to be something. Buckle up.
So we're here.
We're going to be talking about something that is near and dear to my heart.
And that has played out in my friendship with Jasmine, which is social proof.
And we're going to tie this in with like social proof and SEO for sales.
Jasmine is a board certified pediatric dentist.
And now you're practicing as a functional dentist.
Did I get that right? All the words.
Jasmine Elmore: That sounds accurate.
Brittany Herzberg: So we've known each other. Oh my gosh. I don't even know how long.
Jasmine Elmore: Since 2016, 2015, 2015, 2015.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh my gosh. We're approaching a decade.
Jasmine Elmore: We're approaching a decade. Yes.
Brittany Herzberg: That's wild.
But she came into a [00:01:00] chiropractic office, became a massage client.
We became friends pretty quickly. And then, Jasmine is just so much fun as you can tell to talk with.
Here's my question that I like asking all of the people that come on to talk with us. All right, you ready? There's no wrong answer.
What do you think of or how do you define SEO?
What comes to mind? How would you explain it?
Jasmine Elmore: Did I give a truthful answer?
Crystal Waddell: You are under oath.
Jasmine Elmore: Goodness.
So usually when I think SEO I think Brittany Herzberg.
And that's only because you were one of the first people to ever mention SEO.
But the way that I think about after Brittany Herzberg is....
I had a friend, he's a great business person, not a friend, but I had a business guy create a website for me.
And basically put it in like a ghost mode where it existed, but I thought didn't really exist.
And I started getting all of these phone calls from people and was like what, like, how did you even find this website?
So I [00:02:00] consider it like finding the unfindable, because I felt like, why would someone ever have found this website that had been up for two days.
And that was because of SEO, so it's like some magic sauce I can't give you a good definition.
Other than people find the unfindable with SEO, and then, Brittany Herzberg. There you go.
Brittany Herzberg: I love that. My name just gets wrapped up in there.
That's really cool.
Jasmine Elmore: It's been a part of your identity for a long time, so that's why.
Brittany Herzberg: Only, like a couple years.
Jasmine Elmore: But that's a long time. Brittany . Yeah. That's a long time.
Brittany Herzberg: Fair. Fair enough. Yeah.
Crystal Waddell: Remember in 2020 it was like five years long.
Brittany Herzberg: So, social proof is important for the sales process.
What is social proof? I have a good definition and every time I'm asked this question, it just like flies out of my head. So I'll just say what comes to mind.
In my head, social proof is what everyone else has been saying about working with you.
Whether it's related to your personality, some characteristics, the actual experience of working with [00:03:00] you.
They thought that you were organized. Or they thought that you were really like, she was always there, she was always like checking in.
But it's like what other people have to say about you.
And then that makes a new potential buyer that much more comfortable with the idea of working with you.
What do we think about that?
Crystal Waddell: Okay. I just have a funny story from this morning. Okay. Cause this actually just happened today.
This is an example of bad social proof.
Okay. So I have this chat bot on my website.
And I put on the chat bot, look, I'm only available from this time to this time.
And it says you've caught us outside our hours, but then I'll go and respond outside the hour.
So that confuses people, cause it's I thought you weren't here, but you're here.
What's going on?
And of course I'm doing something. Like I'm driving and somebody's dinging in and I'm like, Oh, let me answer that chat real quick.
And so then, but then I can't answer or whatever.
I'm just kidding. I'm not answering it while I'm driving.
But my point is I'm doing something. I answer, I do something else. I forget about it.
So I'm like ghosting these people in the chat.
And this [00:04:00] woman today, she told me, she was like, man, I wasn't sure about you.
And I wasn't sure about buying this thing on the internet that my husband was like.
I don't know about that. I don't know about those cupcake stands.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is the negative social proof that I've got for my business right now.
And the other thing was the chatbot would send these random messages
Brittany Herzberg: I was waiting for the rest of it.
It was like, Hey, what?
Crystal Waddell: I know. But it was something like that. That was just like creepy, the creepy chat bot. And I'm like, I did not set that up. I don't know what's happening.
So I just think it's funny because like how people view you, how people talk about you is so important.
And when I talked to her, I was like, Oh my gosh, please don't ever tell anybody what you just told me.
Let's just move forward from here.
Brittany Herzberg: That's our little secret wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Crystal Waddell: Yeah, so.
Brittany Herzberg: That's hilarious. That is a good story.
So yes, keep the negative social proof under wraps.
But the positive social proof, that's really what we're talking about.
How I'm thinking of it is this: all of the positives of [00:05:00] working with this person or buying something from this person.
So that's, that was a great point to, to define social proof. Now.
One of the questions that Jasmine shared is: why is a recommendation from me enough?
To make you, Jasmine, want to go try a person or try out a process?
Jasmine Elmore: Yeah, I lost my voice listening to Crystal and her sexy chat bot sending weird and inappropriate messages to people.
But for your question, so we're really similar in that when we recommend people, we recommend them with their personality in mind.
So, maybe it's my pediatric dentist background.
But when I'm working with kids, usually they tell me something about themselves just through the shows they watch.
And I usually would match myself or the other doctor that worked for me to them. Based on my first interactions with them.
And that's just one example.
But with you, when you recommend something, you're recommending with those things in mind.
You're keeping in mind the personality of the person. You're keeping in mind their [00:06:00] hours, their price point.
There's a lot of different things.
So you may recommend, Hey, if you've got. The Bentley Continental GTC or Rolls Royce budget.
You may want to see this person.
Or, oh yeah, Jazz, I know it's been a rough month.
Hey, you should see this person because it's a good bang for your buck. So, those recommendations matter because it's another step of social proof.
It's not just, does this person, do they have a product that I want?
It's almost, do they have a product that I want, then I can afford, that I like the person on the back end of who recommended it.
What's the time value of money I'm saving?
It's so many different levels to the recommendation.
So typically when you recommend someone, you factored all of that in.
So it's oh, Brittany recommended it, then I have to do it.
Brittany Herzberg: That's awesome.
I have been hounding my mother to go try my acupuncturist.
And I've seen this woman for, I don't even know how long, but I love her. And sure enough, what am I telling her?
This is how much it costs.
She's available this day, this day, this day. That'll work with [00:07:00] your schedule. And mom, her personality is just like mine.
I even asked my massage clients that I sent to her.
So just what you're saying. That's literally what came out of my mouth like three weeks ago. And she went and I was like, what'd you think?
Oh, she's so great. I loved her. Like i'm definitely gonna go back.
Because the recommendation was a decent one.
And i'm downplaying it because it's weird to talk about yourself.
But like, I I do give pretty banging recommendations.
Crystal Waddell: Yeah, you do.
And something you guys have in common is like you have a holistic view of things.
And I appreciate that so much.
Because everything is multidimensional.
Like I know it's so much easier and so much more simple to just speak directly about one thing.
But if we're going to be honest, almost everything has multiple dimensions.
And so when I hear you say that it's wow, yeah.
That's what I love about you, B, too is that you just see so much about people.
It's not just like an assessment of top level.
There's multiple things going on. And I don't wanna make it too confusing.
[00:08:00] Because then I'll knowledge vomit all over everybody.
I just love that about both of you guys.
That you have this holistic view of everything. Or just like a holistic lens that you look through.
Mm-hmm. . So.
Brittany Herzberg: That is really cool. Thank you.
Jasmine Elmore: I've never thought about that way to see things-
Brittany Herzberg: and I appreciate it so much. That makes me happy cuz it makes me.
Those are the things that I aim to do. So to have that feedback. Thank you.
Also, this is a wonderful time to mention. That client testimonials, actually sitting down with someone. And asking them these questions.
This is the stuff that you will hear. And then this is the stuff that needs to make it into your copy. Or onto your website in some way, shape, or form.
So Jasmine and I are working on this one page website for the SOMA.
Which is something that Jasmine can tell you all about. But one thing that I was noticing that we needed for the website, was social proof.
So I went to Jasmine and I was like, what do you have? In terms of social proof, testimonials, reviews.
Have you, documented any of this stuff?
These are like the four things that I'm [00:09:00] thinking that we would need.
Because I'm walking her down the website page.
And I'm like, okay, we introduce you here.
Can we get a testimonial, for example, from Dr. D'Cruz, where we can say Jasmine is his trusted provider, the only other one in the world.
He's over in Australia.
She's the only other one in the world that has his blessing to go ahead with the Soma device.
That's a big piece of credibility.
Jasmine Elmore: Before the SOMA, I wanted to say, Brittany, that related to testimonials, or I should say reviews is what I wanted to say.
Part of the reason that you should have case studies and not just reviews. Is because when I first purchased my pediatric dental office back in 2017. We had like over 50 five star reviews.
When Rate-a-biz. com went under, we lost all of those reviews.
Yeah, and because the app that we used would give people like the option of doing Google.
And remember, this is 2017 it's much easier now in 2023, but in 2017 you could do Google review or Rate-a-Biz.
If you did [00:10:00] Google you had to have a Google Gmail account.
And based on the area where this practice is not everybody has a Gmail account.
Maybe they have Yahoo, maybe they have Hotmail.
So people weren't going to start a Gmail account if they didn't have that email.
So we got like maybe 5% of all those reviews on Google. The other 95% were Rate-a-Biz.
All you had to do was just type the review and hit enter.
So we had all of these reviews and we lost them all.
And so I feel like when you have a case study and you have a more developed process.
And you house it on your website, and you tag the SEO.
I listened to the episodes you guys did about having a picture and all this stuff line up.
And, don't just put a picture, put Brittany and crystals podcast photo, whatever.
So having control of all of that means you don't lose that later on. Because people don't think five years out.
They're thinking like five minutes out. But five years out, if some other entity controls it, you'll lose your stuff.
Brittany Herzberg: That's a good point.[00:11:00]
Crystal Waddell: That's a great call out for businesses because a lot of times we think about losing our social media accounts.
I've never thought about losing reviews.
So like Etsy sellers who might be listening, there's a way to export your reviews.
So if you have any site right now, like I know I have Etsy.
I'm going to go and I'm going to export those reviews today.
Because there's over 500 there.
And that's the proof that shows that I've been in business as long as I've been in business.
But what if Etsy decides to change Etsy tomorrow? And they can totally do that.
So yeah, every business owner right now.
Consider where do I have social proof and where could I back it up? So thank you for that.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, that was a wonderful call.
And that's a good thing to remind people to do if they can go and export it.
Another thing too, if you have a Squarespace website.
Let's say I just wanted to make sure that my social proof doesn't go anywhere.
They are the lowest hanging fruit.
Just go grab some stinking [00:12:00] screenshots. You could house them just on your computer, on your laptop, on an external hard drive.
You could put them into Google.
Probably a good idea to have them backed up at least in two places.
As we're talking about all this stuff, I'm like, what are the five little places that I can hide it?
So I'll find at least one of them.
But yeah, screenshots are. Amazing.
If someone has given you like the thumbs up. The green light that, yeah, you can keep my face in it.
You can attach my name to it. Cool.
Like I'm even thinking about on Instagram. In the DMS, sometimes I'll make sure that I grab someone's face.
If I've asked them specifically, if I can do that.
Or if they want me to for sometimes it's like nice getting them in the limelight, too.
And people appreciate that.
But sometimes I don't want to ask the people.
Or it's just a question that I want to keep anonymous.
So I'll make sure that there's zero identifying information in there.
No name, no title, no business name, no face.
So, just keep that in mind as well. When you're thinking through what you're going to grab a screenshot of.
And how you're going to, how you're going to grab it.
Okay. I do want you to tell people about some, because I'm super [00:13:00] excited about it.
Jasmine Elmore: I guess the easiest way to describe the SOMA is that, especially for busy, busy people like us.
As your brains go on a thousand miles a minute, if your body doesn't catch up, you're going to have a problem.
Crystal Waddell: I have lots of problems!
Jasmine Elmore: There's a connection between a dysfunctional body and a distorted mind.
And My mentor, Dr. Joseph DeCruz, who created the SOMA, worked for a long time with ...
-you guys actually have the first inside scoop because I've previously called Dr. Diamond a psychologist and Dr. DeCruz this week was like, Hey, I just listened to a podcast you did, great.
Except, one error. And I was like, Oh my God, one error?
What did I say? He's Oh, Dr. Diamond was a psychiatrist. Not a psychologist.
So he worked in a psych ward.
People who were on 17 medications, that's who he worked with.
And he studied schizophrenia.
Bipolar disorder on a clinical side of things.
And he noticed connections between teeth and jaws and the way they fit together in the [00:14:00] mental state of these individuals.
And with Dr. DeCruz helped him perfect his appliance.
Where they together jointly saw these patients and totally corrected like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety.
All these different things with just putting something in their mouths.
Because they understood the connection between how the brain works And the signals that are sent back to it from the jaws.
And it's just, was lucky enough to have this guy be my mentor.
And he's taught me a lot about this appliance.
So I don't work with, people who are that mentally diminished capacity.
But I do work with the other side of crazy people who decide to become entrepreneurs.
And high performance people and who try to extract 72 hours out of a 24 hour day.
So that's the level of crazy that I work with, that's the level of crazy I work with.
And and yeah, it's, it's been great.
It's something I've studied since 2019. Originally, I didn't understand really anything about it and just over time.
Just kept at it.
And now [00:15:00] I am for now, the only us provider of the Soma with Dr. DeCruz's blessing.
Actually, the only other person in the world with his blessing for the Soma. So it's really cool.
And yeah, it's like my new baby project. So.
Brittany Herzberg: It's wonderful. I can't wait to see this thing take off.
And She doesn't even have a functioning website for this thing, and she's already getting blown up on Instagram.
I'm just like, what is this? How can I see you?
Jasmine Elmore: Not all, but most of my patients are from Instagram.
Which is pretty incredible that technology and social media.
I guess I'm a millennial, but I'm an old millennial.
I speak for myself. I'm an old millennial.
Brittany Herzberg: I'm a baby millennial.
Crystal Waddell: I'm probably the oldest millennial in the room.
Jasmine Elmore: But you guys, like you guys have a podcast.
You realize I have nine podcast episodes unpublished.
Because I don't know how to work the podcast technology, which is very simple.
Brittany Herzberg: If I did not have a Crystal, I would not have a podcast.
So that's why whenever someone is check out the Brittany Herzberg podcast, I'm like, yo.
Crystal Waddell: Produced by Crystal.
Jasmine Elmore: Produced by Crystal.
Brittany Herzberg: That's not true. No. That has totally happened before.
And it's flattering and [00:16:00] hilarious.
Because I'm like, and meet Crystal, she was on there too. Whatever episode you listen to, she was there.
Crystal Waddell: Yeah. I produce Brittany's podcast.
Brittany Herzberg: That is too funny.
Crystal Waddell: The keyword research behind this...
Jasmine Elmore: because Brittany is the expert on the keyword research.
But it's really funny because I have an ideal target avatar that I really want to work with.
That Brittany has been encouraging me to work with.
The problem is I didn't want to go out on a limb for that group of people just yet.
But I made the decision like this weekend.
So really Brittany doesn't know yet. That I've finally identified my target market.
Because I was looking at Brittany's newsletter.
And when I backed out some weird way on my phone, it pulled up another newsletter that I. subscribe to that I never look at.
And the topic was burnout retreats. That people, business owners, entrepreneurs, professionals. Are so burned out that they're seeking out these super expensive burnout retreats.
From $7,000 a week to [00:17:00] $134,000 a week.
Brittany Herzberg: A week?
Jasmine Elmore: A week.
I was like, okay, I'm not crazy. There's a market of people who are really like, seeking out escapes from their lives.
In a way where instead of spending $134,000 a week, you could spend a fraction of that on this solution.
Brittany Herzberg: Once. Not per week.
I'm sure some people need that.
But to your point.
If you're going to get to that.
This is one thing that Jasmine and I are really all about is get to the root of it.
What's actually going on, what will clear this up once and for all.
And just to tie this into the recommendations and social proof.
You met Mike, the PT that you go see and that spiraled the whole Jasmine figuring out about like airway breathing.
I don't want to tell the whole story for you.
Jasmine Elmore: It's because of Mike.
The Brittany aspects of this story is that social proof led me to the chiropractic office where you worked.
And then I called and Brittany answered the phone.
I was like, Oh my gosh, this person's incredible. I've definitely got to go here.
[00:18:00] Was like, Yes, I love this place.
So I was seeing crystal like Two PTs.
One for aquatic physical therapy.
And then another for some other type of physical therapy.
And while those places were amazing and fantastic and great.
I was not making progress. I fell in the shower.
So I had a really bum ankle, and then I had a really bad shoulder before the fall.
So, just a combination my body was just in a bad place. And I was limping around still after doing all this therapy.
So Brittany was like, look you need to go see Mike.
And he didn't take insurance.
And I was like Brittany, I don't want to go to somebody that doesn't take insurance.
And she was like, no, no, you have to see him.
So I was so desperate and so much pain that I went.
And not only that Mike get me out of pain really quickly.
He told me like, Jasmine, you need a new career.
And I was like, what? I'm just starting this career.
Like I'm less than two years into this career. There's no way.
And he was just like, it's just too stressful. You're seeing 60 people a day.
You're making for that amount of effort and your knowledge.
Like, he was the first person that really put it to the [00:19:00] forefront.
I was a level 10 talent and a level two opportunity.
And then he started talking about breathing. And the connection between my teeth and my feet.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
My teeth have nothing to do with my feet.
And he's yeah, your diaphragm is related to the roof of your mouth because it's an arch.
And the roof of your mouth is an arch.
And then your feet have arches and they all communicate.
And I was like, Mike, this sounds crazy, but because.
Social, personal social proof, because he had gotten me out of pain. I listened. And then I said, okay, He can't be crazy.
Maybe I'm crazy.
Let me go look into this. And that kind of spiraled into my learning.
And then now here's my new career.
But yeah, if it wasn't for Mike and then therefore Brittany.
I would still be doing the same dentistry that was, killing me.
Brittany Herzberg: You and I have had this conversation privately. You as a black female becoming a pediatric dentist.
Can we just have a moment of silence for how hard that was for you?
And I've also heard you say this.
But like incredibly hard to go from, I worked so hard.
I built this thing and now I'm going to go over here and do this.
And you were [00:20:00] talking about going out on a limb.
That's scary as sugar. Let's just say, so that's scary.
And I'm really proud of you for doing that though, because this is going to change lives.
You're already changing lives.
So, For going out on a limb for you were talking earlier about just like with your target audience, like you tossed it out and you were like, Oh yeah, I want to help these people and these people and these people.
And I was like, go for this one. And you were like, I don't know.
Jasmine Elmore: Yeah.
I've hired a social media manager. Shout out to Corrine. Yeah.
She's running my sleep with Soma page. And it's, for us to have that many followers and the engagement we have in three weeks is pretty incredible.
I have a background in athletics and basketball. I feel most aligned with athletes and high performers.
One as a former athlete.
And two, my mentality of how I approach my day is just not like most people.
But I told Brittany getting into that space.
It requires you to have [00:21:00] copy that makes sense that stands out to those individuals.
I do have one basketball playing athlete that I'm working on getting into a Soma.
But it's just not as it's different when you have.
People coming to you and you're early on in a business, you have to have that mesh point between, do I help the people I know who to help, how to help and make that profit?
While pivoting to the people I want to treat, or do I just say no to the profits in a startup that are going to keep me hiring that social media manager?
And I also want to help these people and profit, or do I just say no to all of them and then slowly in the background, build a business.
So I already had done that, Crystal with my startup.
So for two years, I funded my startup with my money from my savings while I built it out before I was comfortable.
Like I know Soma, but not enough to put my name behind it. To really stand on it.
To charge what the market is saying I should charge.
I need to get better first. So I just continued to be a student behind the [00:22:00] scenes for five years before I ever saw my first person.
So because of that, when you then launch and you get people that you can help, it's this isn't my target person, but this experience will help me.
Brittany, you did that with me, right?
Yep. I'm going to help Jasmine. And then from this experience, number one, I have a friend who's going to tell me the truth.
She's going to be super patient with me. I'm going to build skills and then I can go and charge my premium price.
So, it's a dance.
It's a very fine dance between being confident.
Cause then with some of us, we have the skills.
But then we don't have the confidence.
So I had to wait till I got to the point where I had the skills.
I thankfully always had the confidence now it's just pivoting, but the people that I'm attracting are not necessarily
athletes, right? They're high performers, but they're not athletes.
Brittany Herzberg: I want to bring something to, to the forefront, which you actually brought up and I loved it, which is that you can do both.
You can serve the people who are coming to you.
And the important thing is that your [00:23:00] message that you have going out is for I want to attract these people.
And you have to be really, really intentional with that.
So your message that's going out is not only the words that are on your website, your copy, it's also the SEO strategy behind it.
And this came up in another episode we recorded recently.
Which is my belief in my operation, my process, how I do this is I need to know what your message is before we launch into here's your SEO strategy.
If you can't tell me who you help, how you help them and what you want to be known for.
We got to go back and start there.
And you knew that.
Jasmine Elmore: Most of us don't know that, but most people don't know that.
Brittany Herzberg: Or we don't realize that we do know it.
Jasmine Elmore: No, we don't know it, or that we don't know. Yeah.
We don't know like... Crystal I don't know if you work with like healthcare pros like how Brittany did.
I don't know you've pivoted again, Brittany.
So you have to tell me who you work with now.
But before you were doing like copy for healthcare people right like health people.
And I feel like in healthcare, at least I can speak [00:24:00] to dentistry. If someone comes in the door and they have a toothache.
You have to treat them, right? Or if it's a hospital and someone's shot, you don't go.
Oh, we can't see you.
Insurance aside, I'm not going down the insurance rabbit hole, but just in general, you treat everybody that walks in the door.
A broken tooth, you treat every broken tooth.
So to now have a business where this is not emergency health care, this is specialty health care.
So that means I have to pivot from the dentist's brain.
Brittany Herzberg: And this is something that comes up in the healthcare world. And then now you're going to say I'm choosing to attract that kind of people. It's weird because you then have to like....
Crystal Waddell: I think it's the same for anybody who just has, I don't know what that mental approach is, but the mental approach is like, yeah, I would help.
And I would volunteer!
I would do it for free, but the fact is.
I can't have a business if I do it for free and I probably can't eat, if I do it for free.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. I think it's the helper mindset. Yeah.
Crystal Waddell: Oh my gosh, the helper mindset, dude!
Brittany Herzberg: that needs to go on a t shirt.
Crystal Waddell: Write it down. Oh, you got [00:25:00] it. I did.
That it's just, it's that helper reminds that you're so right. And that is one of the biggest things to overcome.
Like yesterday, I was helping.
And my dad said, he was like, did you enjoy that phone call?
And I was like, yeah, he goes, why'd you enjoy it? And I was like, I don't know.
I was like, do you know why I enjoyed it?
He wasn't there, I didn't record it. I'm so mad at myself.
You enjoyed it because you enjoy solving problems. And she was coming to you with like problem, problem, problem.
And I'm like, do you want to fix it or not? Because that's my, I will get ugly with somebody if they complain to me and then don't want to fix their problem.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh, that drives me up a wall.
Crystal Waddell: Yeah.
And I finally got to, I told her, you got to make a decision who you're going to serve. And why you're going to do that.
Jasmine Elmore: Oh yeah.
You have to ask people, do you have these things?
When you're trying to find your ideal people, whereas in regular healthcare, it doesn't usually work like that. You see everyone.
Crystal Waddell: So what are the five things that you are talking about now? Like these, do you have these five things? What are those five things?
Jasmine Elmore: Yeah.
So [00:26:00] typically it's, I call it a bleeding neck problem versus a stub toe problem.
So you gotta have an urgent problem, not a I'll do this later.
It's is this, have you gotten so sick and tired of being sick and tired that you want to act now?
Do you want to travel? Cause 90% of my patients are out of state.
So some people will message me on Instagram. Oh, I can't travel.
It's not going to work. I'm in North Carolina and you're in San Diego.
How expensive is your problem?
So for me, with my example from Brittany, when Brittany found me in pain, I was making a $1000 a day.
And I was working six days a week.
And I just started cutting back my days to four days a week.
Because of the pain was really impacting me.
So time value of money, I had a $2,000 a week problem.
If I were to let that problem last a year, that's a hundred thousand dollar problem.
And that doesn't even count when I did work, how my work was impacted when I did work.
So I wasn't even as efficient at my job when I was working.
I had $100,000 [00:27:00] problem.
So, it's a $10-, 15-, $20,000 solution in the one year.
When I could ignore this problem for multiple years and it could cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
So if somebody's got a $500 problem, then this probably isn't the solution for them because this is a more advanced solution.
Have you noticed connections between your nervous system and your body?
So like a lot of my patients will notice that they may not identify as anxious, but they now notice how's their awareness.
I should word it better that way. Do you have an awareness that you have a problem for some people?
FOMO what's the SOMA thing? Everybody has it. I want it, but they don't have an awareness of their body and awareness of how their sleep is impacting their production and performance.
They don't have an awareness of how they're mind, a little crankier, they're hangry, even when they're not hungry type of thing, like they just don't have this.
Brittany Herzberg: They always need a Snickers.
Jasmine Elmore: After a Snickers, they need another Snickers.
But if you don't have the awareness of that, the first step before you self intervene [00:28:00] is awareness.
And then we want to make it to self regulation. So on that scale, if you don't have the awareness first you probably should start out with one of those cheaper options.
It's going to fail you and go through that process before you just jump to a high end solution. So those are usually the questions that I ask.
And I asked them in not an organized manner. So right now I'm working on trying to put this in a Calendly type of thing.
So people ask those questions before they book.
So we're working on the systems because really the systems are important, but it's all new to most healthcare pros, Brittany.
That's why I was like, actually, I think most healthcare people are just used to treating everyone. Cause like in school, there are no parameters.
Do you have a tooth? Cool.
You're my dental patient, you got it.
Brittany Herzberg: Crystal and I were talking and I was telling her I had this conversation earlier this week with another healthcare provider so that person is a another massage therapist, another body worker. You have the pediatric dentist background and you're still a functional dentist.
I have the massage therapy background. We all want to help. We're used [00:29:00] to helping everyone in the way this person worded it.
She was like, I'm used to helping people. They'll come in for $100 massage.
They may have a $500,000 a year salary. They may have a $60,000 a year salary. They're at like a variety of income points, but they can all come in.
They can all afford me different frequency, things like that.
So we're in Crystal was saying like teacher, like we all have these helper mindsets. So we're used to helping anyone. You have a problem. I can help you.
So it's weird to go from, I can help you at these varying income levels to then choosing, I'm going to put out this message to call in these people.
It's very strange for us because we feel like we're saying no.
And that was the first thing that I started realizing when people were talking about niching.
I'm like, I don't want to say no to these people. Now I recognize that.
And I can even help my clients with, it's not saying no, and you're going to have other people to your point, Jasmine coming in that don't fit the bill to a T or maybe even at all.
You're going to help them because if they have these [00:30:00] other are they willing to do these things?
Do they have these values in alignment, that kind of stuff? Of course it's an easy yes for both parties, you and the patient.
It's just, It's a different mindset and like it's getting it's not getting out of the helper mindset.
It's it's getting your helper mindset to understand That all we're doing is putting out this certain message to help us get found so that we can get found by the people who need this help.
Crystal Waddell: I'm wondering if you're also saying, all of a sudden money becomes this thing that's important.
Whereas before when your helper mindset, it's I was telling B is as a teacher, it's I've always done things for free.
My husband has volunteered as a baseball coach for over a decade. Volunteered. He's working like 14, 15 hour days.
And I remember when I first got married, I was like, It's not doing that, and I'm like, what was wrong with, he loves it.
It gives him so much joy. He's got an amazing mentor and a coach that he works with.
He's an amazing man, and it's just helped my husband become a better man, but it's, it is that helper [00:31:00] mindset.
It's Oh gosh, what does that say about me?
If I say Ooh, I can't help you because you don't have enough money for this solution.
You know what I mean?
Jasmine Elmore: A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
I tell people all the time, there's a mourning process when you understand who you are.
Because for me growing up with a single parent, mom, and then my introduction to dentistry being one from a low end dentistry.
I had to undergo a mourning when I spent $350,000 in five years to learn a high end thing, and then realize it's not just about helping people.
Sometimes they don't want to be helped.
So I had my ego had to jump in.
And I said, actually, if I work with the people who want the help at this price point, I can help the people who want my price point can't afford it for free cause I'll have the resources to do that.
So I had to start changing my mindset.
I love that you said about your husband, because I coached basketball for free for a decade is that that was a passion.
There wasn't a single day, no matter what I worked with nine to 12 year old boys and I coached them for years.
And then [00:32:00] I coached varsity girls basketball as well.
And whether it be teenage girl or the young boys, no matter the worst day they had, I never not one single day did not enjoy being a coach.
But as an owner of a mainly Medicaid dental office, I struggled to find days that I did enjoy.
The children I enjoyed, but that was one moment of my day, the parents, the staff, like it was so draining on who I was and my energy level to give, give, give, and never think: giving should be both ways, right?
It should be, let's just shoot for 50-50.
I don't even want more than I give out. Like I will give you 50. Can I just get 50?
I don't need more than I give, but I was giving with absolutely nothing in return.
And while we do that for "fun" as a business pro to work for a six, seven, eight, nine months and collect $0 [00:33:00] after being a doctor.
Like I really have to take a step back.
Okay, I'm giving, but now I can't pay my bills.
Or now I can't make payroll. Wait a minute, now.
I gotta look into who is Jasmine and do I love myself?
And I was the same around the same time I gained weight.
So, people have to be really careful with businesses to not lose sight of why you're doing it.
And if you died tomorrow, is this the legacy you want to give?
Where everyone will say all the great things about you, but you never loved yourself enough to take the fact that you spent $350,000 to learn something that there's a handful of people in the whole country can do.
And yet, you don't want to go out and go charge what that's worth because you want to continue to tell yourself that you're going to say no to these people.
No, actually you can help those people for free and a free clinic with the money that you gained from....
So I had to change my mindset and that was the only way I was able to do this new stuff was with a big mindset shift for me.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. And I like that you said that because It ties it back to [00:34:00] the point that I was trying to make earlier.
Our point of differentiation where you said that health pros don't know like the niche, or they don't know how they want to my, my different take on it just by helping the people that I've helped and even working through my own stuff in my head is that it's not that we don't know.
We really really struggle to say it. And claim it. And embrace it.
Because of everything you just said, it's really hard because we, we wanted to help and we want to help everybody.
But I love that you pointed out the fact that you can, once you get to the point where you're successful, and you have that overflow, you can then go and help more people.
And I've been trying to figure out how to do that with my own case studies and I was in a networking event earlier this year.
And I was just in a room of really high achievers, like income levels that I just like, that's cool. Maybe one day.
So I threw out the idea to them and I was like, I think I want to do like a pro bono case study and feature someone.
In a way that will get them found because I just like I love this so much and I've seen it work [00:35:00] and I want to help somebody so throughout the idea, a couple people recommended some names, and I ended up choosing one who turns out she's a friend.
And so we haven't done it just yet but that's a way that I can at this point at this level of income with the skills that I have, feature somebody else.
Help give her a helping hand because she's so incredible.
Crystal and I are able to do that with the podcast. I'm able to do that whenever someone does need a recommendation.
Someone else that you found Jasmine was Shannon with Evlo fitness.
Jasmine Elmore: Oh, I love Dr. Shannon. Yes. Deep love affair. Yeah. Yeah.
Brittany Herzberg: Because the philosophy again, that's another similar philosophy, gentle consistency, helping your nervous system in different ways.
Crystal Waddell: What you mentioned about getting to the overflow, my dad always says take care of yourself first, and I'm like, why does that even mean?
But I, I'm starting to understand it even more as a business owner, because this whole idea of burnout and you're talking about these retreats that people are going on, and then who was it?
Tavana I think said in her podcast, she's we didn't [00:36:00] quit our jobs to then become a horrible boss to ourself.
But yet that's what we do, and I think another element of that helper mindset is that we've got to continue to pour out of ourselves. Yet.
We don't recognize when we don't have anything left to pour.
It's like, too late.
Brittany Herzberg: Glaring red signs that you end up in a hospital, you have to have a surgery, like your body is yo, we are done.
This is your like, yeah, sit down and take care of yourself.
Crystal Waddell: So we do that so we don't feel selfish, but at the end of the day, it's not selfish, but it ends up taking away more from people than we, could have originally given if we'd have just taken that time to pour our cup first.
And then like you said, get to a point of overflow.
So I just, I think those things are so beautiful. So I just want to make sure that we don't like gloss over that because that, it's just amazing.
It's like preaching to me right now, and I hope that somebody else gets it as well.
But here's my big [00:37:00] question as we tie it back to business. Okay. Cause I got to keep coming back to these keywords because I think that this is an area where I've seen all of the clients probably that we've talked to that want to make this pivot to like a higher clientele.
Like how do you position your offer then?
And your dream community of clients, are they searching for nervous system regulation?
Or, what is it that they're searching for that positions the Soma and what you've got as like the solution for their problem?
Jasmine Elmore: Yeah, I think the thing is really focusing on the problem and not the solution.
That's what I've noticed with a lot of people is when you speak their language and you bring them into a story. So it's all things that I'm really good at.
And I know how to do, I just don't, I just don't do them for a variety of reasons.
Just yesterday I worked 14 hours and then got home and ate a piece of pizza and went to sleep on the couch cuz this is how it goes.
But most people, when I tie them into a story and they understand why the things [00:38:00] that they're doing don't work efficiently, the selling process is very simple.
Like sales, I didn't even know I was good at sales. Cuz people are like, you're a great salesperson.
Am I ? But I convert, like my conversion rate is over 90% from my consultations.
So people were like you have to be a good sales person.
Cause the usual conversion rate is whatever, 20% or whatever. And I was like, is it?
Crystal Waddell: You're also good at qualifying!
Jasmine Elmore: But you have to have a good product and that's the thing.
And that's why I think when I talk to people that I mentor on the business side, and this is a hard thing for us to deal with because I spent.
Of that big amount of money. I told you I still spent six figures and had a crap product and didn't really realize until you take it to market.
So it's almost like the first thing is if you have a good product, it sells itself and it needs a very minimal offer when you have the social proof to back it up.
That's the thing.
So it's like piecing all of it together. But it's not very difficult. It's just getting in front of the right people.
Getting in front of the right rooms. It's kind of [00:39:00] like, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu.
I always loved that phrase. It's you got to get to the table.
But yeah, it'll be a good thing, Crystal.
When I do the full pivot. It's just that it takes, you can't have three jobs and do a full pivot either.
So I like to have everything positioned itself when the universe is ready for it to, Yeah to go.
Crystal Waddell: I heard you answer the question immediately, in terms of keywords and anybody can take this advice and apply it to your own product, your own service.
And that is identifying the problems and talking about the problems.
And just, even if you're not completely sure, like how to define your solution, by understanding the problems and talking about the problems, you then find the keywords. That people are using to describe
Brittany Herzberg: go ahead. No, I'm agreeing with you.
I'm like all excited. Cause I'm agreeing with you. And I want to make sure to point out to something that I love sharing with people is that focus on the problem.
Yes, for sure.
You could also focus on the desire. So not the [00:40:00] solution. We're not talking about the bridge, but we're talking about, I am here and you want to be over here and we're looking at the map.
You may not know the in between. That's fine. You don't need to.
Where are you at? Where do you want to go?
And that's why when I'm talking with clients and figuring out the SEO or figuring out, yeah, I'm figuring out the SEO, which is, the messaging, the copywriting, all, all of the things I want to know who are you?
What do you do? How do you help people? Who do you want to help? And then what do you want to be known for?
Because if I can figure out those things, I know what to research. I know what to highlight.
I know how to ensure that people are actually searching for it. Your people who you want to find, because Jasmine was talking about it earlier.
There's the stages of awareness.
Like people are at varying degrees of I'm not even aware I have a problem all the way through to I know I have a problem and I know the solution that I want.
So there's a lot of things that to factor in when you're creating a keyword strategy and even doing the keyword research.
Crystal Waddell: And another thing I love about what Jasmine said about understanding the journey of your client. You [00:41:00] said that people will try other solutions first.
And so I think that's really interesting and it's a very humble position to take because even though I know I have a superior product or I know I have a solution for these symptoms or, whatever this person's facing, I also know that they are going to try X, Y, and Z before they get to me.
And so I think that's really an interest. That's probably one of the. Really powerful ways that case studies can help because people see themselves in that story, of Oh, I tried this and then I tried that and it's that's me, like I'm going down that path myself.
Jasmine Elmore: Yeah, yeah, I lean into it.
I lean into it, Crystal. I just go, I already know that you tried this and that. And then, it's Brittany and I talked about this, cause I know we're wrapping up.
But Brittany and I talked about this in my old field as a pediatric dentist.
I talked to all the things the kids could be fearful for before they even think of them.
So now we've cleared that. So it's what [00:42:00] are you scared of this?
Cause somebody's going to come from under the chair and stab you with a thousand knives?
And I'm like, no, I'm not afraid of that.
So now like every other fear seems small compared to that. I do the same thing with them.
It's so I know you tried that thing and that thing and this thing and this thing.
And then you probably experienced this and this and this and this before they even had it come out of their mouths.
So now you look like, Oh, okay. So wait a minute. You really know what I'm going through.
Sure do. Let me tell you why this works. That's how it really worked. It's worked really well, I think.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah. And that comes through on your copy.
If you've even think of like how a sales page is structured or how a case study is structured.
We're walking them through every single thing, to your point Jasmine, via storytelling.
Because storytelling is like the thing that's going to grab your attention.
You're going to be hooked. You're going to hopefully see yourself in the joke, like not in the shoes, but in the desk chair of the person who was like the case study subject air quotes.
Cause we're people, but case study subject and, or you're going to, I'm hoping that both are going to happen, that you're going to feel connected to the person, the client or the student [00:43:00] or the patient and the person who's the guide who's helping them.
I want you to also hear Jasmine talk about the patient that she helped and get a sense of what Jasmine is so that you adore Jasmine.
I need Jasmine's help. What do I need to look at any other solution for.
I need, UX design help Crystal like I don't need to do any more research. I've got these people.
So, that's why I'm so passionate about case studies in social proof.
If you're trying to think through like where you can use social proof, no matter what business.
You have where you're at, where your people are.
You can use social proof in your social media posts and definitely go check out Jasmine's sleep with Soma page, because you guys are crushing it over there.
You can also feature testimonials throughout your website.
You can also put that on a social media post and then in your copy and guess where your copy is, anywhere you have words, that is your copy.
So anywhere that you're saying things or writing things or whatever, you can use social proof in all of these situations.
We've done it. All three of us have done it today. Just talking in this podcast, we've talked about people we've helped.
We've talked about our journey. We've talked about like [00:44:00] our experience.
Get creative, but also know that it's like a lot more simple than what you're probably dreaming up in your head.
Crystal Waddell: Just real quick before you tell us all your things, Jasmine, I just want to say. You, I'm sure you were amazing, beautiful pediatric dentist.
As a mother of a son. I would have loved to take my son to you.
Jasmine Elmore: You still can! We can talk about that off camera.
Crystal Waddell: Okay, but go ahead, tell the world like how they can connect with you and find more information about all this.
Jasmine Elmore: Yes. Quick 30 second pivot for your audience.
I'm going to send you guys a link to a podcast I listened to when we were talking about overflow.
I know somebody is how the heck do I determine the overflow?
How do I know what the overflow is?
There's a podcast where he Donald Miller talks about taking your money and putting it into five different accounts. And then you give out of your overflow account and the way that he describes it.
When you do it in this way, it is so easy for you to see what is the overflow of my business that I can actually give [00:45:00] financially, but also I took that mentally, like my time, it was really good.
And that helped me see a lot better. Oh, I don't have as much overflow as I thought I did.
So I'll send that to you guys later because I think it's like, it would be really good for people to check out.
Okay, for me, if anyone's interested so my personal Instagram page, which has been in existence a lot longer is @rich_sleep.
And then I have a new Instagram page which is @sleepwithsoma, which is all about the Soma and the appliance that we mentioned throughout the podcast.
Brittany Herzberg: Yeah.
And Dr. D'Cruz is on there too. Like you feature him a little bit as well.
Jasmine Elmore: Dr. D'Cruz is on there. He will be here in June as well. In North Carolina, yeah. Yeah. In North Carolina. Yeah. So lots of excitement. I just want to thank you guys.
This is like the most fun podcast. Yep. That's it. You found it. But this is like the best episode ever. You guys are so conversational.
I love how Crystal and Brittany interact and the way you guys play off each other is great.
Like listening to the podcast and actually being on it is like a different experience. Thank you guys [00:46:00] for having me. I really, I am honored. Thank you so much.
Crystal Waddell: Aw.
Brittany Herzberg: Oh, of course. I want you to come back, once the website is up and then we've had it out for a little bit, like I'd love to have you if you're up for it, Crystal and Jasmine.
Jasmine Elmore: After I have some social proof out there.
Brittany Herzberg: I was listening to her sharing her experience of coming down and getting fitted and meeting your whole team.
And I was watching her Instagram stories and I think I was probably responsible for 30 of the views because I was like paused. Oh, wait, I missed that thing. I gotta go back. It's great. It's wonderful.
And that's the amazing thing about so jazzed about your product or your offer, whatever it is. They're so excited that they're working with you. They're like. World.
Like you got to hear about this and they want to share for you. That is the social proof. So just pay attention to your people and what they're saying.
Cause there's some gold in there.
Jasmine Elmore: Oh, I appreciate that. I will open my eyes a little wider.
Brittany Herzberg: You have. All right. This has been awesome. Thank you so much
Jasmine Elmore: for being here. Thanks. Thanks SEO army for listening.
Brittany Herzberg: We will catch [00:47:00] you next time. Bye.