Laura Jawad is a personal trainer & birth doula and an SEO strategist for health & wellness pros!
1. Laura discussed the advantages and disadvantages of online tools, including Chatbots (Chat GPT vs. Jasper), Surfer SEO and the Hemingway app.
2. Laura's top four tips for using online tools for SEO copywriting:
The Demand Gen Fix
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
If you're looking for a unique, handcrafted way to spruce up your home or office, then Collage and Wood is the perfect place for you!
We offer a range of beautiful wooden signs that are perfect for any occasion. Our talented team of artists will work with you to create a sign that perfectly suits your needs. So why wait? Visit Collage and Wood today!
Listen to the private podcast for just $10/mo:
SEO Shorts helps you put a simple & *strong* SEO strategy in place, today!
Be our (podcast) guest! Apply here
Book your SEO Audit
B’s SEO Basics Checklist
brittanyherzberg.com / Instagram
10,000 Jasper words FREE!
Get the Show merch!
This transcript is machine generated and has not been edited for errors.
The Future of SEO: Chat GPT, Jasper and Surfer SEO Ai Writing Tools
[00:00:00] Laura Jawad: But for. Most of my articles,
[00:00:03] Laura Jawad: I write them in Hemingway. This is my workflow. I write them in Hemingway and then I copy and paste it into surfer, and then I use surfer to sharpen the pencil.
[00:00:17] Brittany Herzberg: Hello and welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show
[00:00:20] Crystal Waddell: where we provide tips and advice to improve your website's
[00:00:23] Brittany Herzberg: search engine ranking. I'm Brittany Herzberg, SEO o copywriter for holistic health and Wellness Pros who want to show up as the answer to a Googled question.
[00:00:31] Crystal Waddell: And I'm Crystal Adel, an e-commerce seller and content.
[00:00:35] Crystal Waddell: I help business owners communicate the value of their products and services through content so you can make more sales and grow your businesses.
[00:00:42] Brittany Herzberg: We are business besties who love learning and sharing what we've learned. So what are we waiting for? Let's jump in. Welcome back. We are here this week with Large WA and we are gonna be talking about all things chat, G P T, and I had to say that solely so I didn't trip over my [00:01:00] own tongue.
[00:01:00] Brittany Herzberg: Hi people. Laura Crystal, are you there? Yeah.
[00:01:04] Brittany Herzberg: So you've been here before. You're like, I think you're our very first podcast guest, so welcome back. Lovely to see you again. Thank you though.
[00:01:11] Laura Jawad: I'm so super thrilled to be back.
[00:01:13] Brittany Herzberg: Will you remind people who you are, what you. Yeah, so I am
[00:01:17] Laura Jawad: a pregnancy and postpartum personal trainer and I used FCO to build my business. And so that is what brings me here. And now I am also an SEO strategist.
[00:01:28] Brittany Herzberg: Okay. So we're here to talk about chat G P T and for anyone who is new to listening to us or maybe we haven't shared thoughts or anything like that.
[00:01:38] Brittany Herzberg: I do copywriting and I tend to not use AI tools and we talking a bit before we started recording about how Laura also really liked just. , it sounded like the act of writing, like you just really like creating your own stuff and that's where I'm at. So you can think of the crystal, me and Laura as like on a sliding scale of using copywriting tools, crystal uses Jasper.
[00:01:59] Brittany Herzberg: I thi [00:02:00] it sounds like Laura uses chat G P T a lot and I'm over here with my keyboard. So do you maybe wanna tell us a little bit about, how you got into using chat G P T and how you went from like my seat over to like your seat with using. Yeah,
[00:02:12] Laura Jawad: so I love blogging by the way, and if I could figure out how to just get paid to write my blog into my emails, like I would be a happy girl. So that's something important to know is that I enjoy writing. And a couple years ago, someone put Jasper.ai on my radar and. , I investigated that as a tool to help write like some of the more like dry blog posts on my site.
[00:02:38] Laura Jawad: Like the te like the teaching posts, but I can never really get into it. And part of it was because I do enjoy the writing and I like making it my own. And I never felt like I could get something that sounded like, I and obviously like I couldn't get something that sounded like me out of Jasper.
[00:02:53] Laura Jawad: And so I eventually gave up on it. And then when Chad g p t came out, I definitely rolled my eyes. [00:03:00] and didn't immediately look into it. And then as there was just more and more buzz, I had to try it. And while I was initially skeptical, I do find myself using it almost every day now and. . Part of it is because it is it's a more simple tool.
[00:03:14] Laura Jawad: It's a way less sophisticated tool than Jasper. Jasper's really designed around writing, like marketing, business content, long form content. It has all these templates and stuff inside of it, like it's a very robust platform. Chat. C B T is just the conversational platform, right? You type in a question, it gives you an answer.
[00:03:32] Laura Jawad: It's like the most basic webinar interface. . But I've found that it's been really accelerating, like mundane tasks, like writing meta descriptions, helping me generate titles, helping me like come up with alliterations . And so it's, yeah, it's been really it's been really nice to bo almost like to bounce ideas off of and to help just streamline the description writing and the title writing, things like that.
[00:03:56] Laura Jawad: But I don't use it to, for example, write. My content [00:04:00] for me.
[00:04:00] Brittany Herzberg: Got it. So you're using it more for like ideation
[00:04:02] Crystal Waddell: yeah.
[00:04:03] Laura Jawad: That's said though I did, just as an experiment, because I was involved in a large group discussion about chat G P T, I did write a blog post based off of something I got outta chat G P T.
[00:04:13] Laura Jawad: And so it's actually the most recent blog on my website right now. It's about walking and the seed of that blog post came from chat G P T output, and part of the reason I did it is. I wanted to test like the AI detection tools and so it was cool cuz the output I got from chat G P t, comes up as a hundred percent machine written.
[00:04:35] Laura Jawad: Oh. And then by the time I massaged it into that post and put it back into the same tools, it was like 0.03% machine written right? Or 99 point whatever percent human written. And so the tools can tell the difference and it was fun to see how I could use. chat, g p t, as like a seed for a larger blog post.
[00:04:54] Laura Jawad: . So I've been playing with it. That's cool.
[00:04:56] Brittany Herzberg: I,
[00:04:56] Crystal Waddell: I have a follow up question to that because this is out of order, in [00:05:00] terms of talking about AI writing tools, but I think one of the biggest objections to AI writing tools is this AI detect.
[00:05:09] Crystal Waddell: So I was wondering like if you could talk a little bit more about how you tested that to see, what does that even mean? What are AI
[00:05:17] Brittany Herzberg: detections? Yeah, I was gonna say to people like me ex, explain that .
[00:05:20] Laura Jawad: I can't explain the nuts and bolts to you. I don't know. I don't know how they work exactly, but, I do know that, like what
[00:05:26] Crystal Waddell: are the tools, what are, what websites
[00:05:29] Laura Jawad: you go to?
[00:05:30] Laura Jawad: Yeah. And I was just gonna preface it with when you generate. , these like predictive text generators, like when they put out content, I guess there are like electronic signatures left in the text that you can detect right there. There's ways to trace it back. I don't get it. . So the tool that I used specifically, it's called Hugging Face Open AI detector.
[00:05:51] Laura Jawad: And so in terms of, yes, like this is a limitation. Like it is very easy to detect AI content. And the May, [00:06:00] 2022 Google update, like specifically goes after AI content, right? . so if you have a ton of AI generated content on your website, Google will penalize you for that, right? And so if you're going to use these tools to support the content on your website, I think you have to be really careful to one.
[00:06:20] Laura Jawad: doctor, the output. So it sounds more like you. So address the tone. Of course. Run it through an AI detector when you're done working with it. And make sure that it appears to the internet gods, that it was written by a human. And then the other thing, and this is maybe not, this is very much related, is run it through something like Copyscape.
[00:06:40] Laura Jawad: Because the AI tools, in addition to sounding like they were written by a machine, they also plagiarize. . Yeah. And I think Jarvis is maybe, or Jasper, what is it? It's Jasper now, . I think Jasper is a little bit better about the plagiarism than chat, g p T, but chat, g p t has definitely [00:07:00] been scraping direct chunks of content from websites and I think if you're using us on your own website, like really being cognizant. Oh, and fact checking. So four things, right? Like doctorate for tone, fact, check it, run it through the AI detection tools, and then Copyscape. What
[00:07:19] Brittany Herzberg: does Copyscape do? Cuz I haven't heard of that one.
[00:07:21] Laura Jawad: Copyscape is the plagiarism detector tool.
[00:07:24] Laura Jawad: Oh, okay. It's a paid tool, but it is like very cheap. Okay. One of these things that's like pennies. article to check it.
[00:07:34] Brittany Herzberg: That's good. I, okay. So addressing the tone, fact checking, going through the AI detection software and then plagiarism software. This is cool. That's I wouldn't have even thought to do all of that stuff.
[00:07:44] Brittany Herzberg: Crystal, I see your hand. Yeah. .
[00:07:47] Crystal Waddell: Okay, so I have a few comments to make, so I may lose my train of thought, like usual. But I wanna address a couple things. So moving like backwards to forwards from what Laura said with Jasper. [00:08:00] The AI that Jasper uses is like a predictive ai, so it doesn't plagiarize 99% of the time and almost a hundred percent of the time, Jasper will never generate plagiarized content because it doesn't copy anything.
[00:08:16] Crystal Waddell: It imitates patterns that are on the internet, which is different. So it's if you were gonna write a sentence like I went to school. Jasper's going to search the internet and give you the predicted word that makes the most sense based on all its information and algorithms from 2019. So sometimes you might, hear if the sentence was the sun is blank, like the sun is yellow, you might see that type of sentence multiple times across the internet.
[00:08:47] Crystal Waddell: That doesn't mean it's plagiarized, it means it's common language. So I just want to. Explain
[00:08:52] Brittany Herzberg: how at least the Jasper algorithm works. That's how Chachi
[00:08:56] Laura Jawad: PT is supposed to work as well, which is the interesting thing. Like it's a [00:09:00] predictive text generator, but these issues still crop up.
[00:09:04] Brittany Herzberg: So it's supposed to be predictive, but it's doing a lot of the scraping.
[00:09:06] Laura Jawad: It appears to do some. , I didn't mean to cut you off Crystal. I just couldn't help interject that. Cha Jasper's built on a very similar model to chat G P T. I think that technology behind them is really similar.
[00:09:18] Laura Jawad: I think Jasper's just done a better job of correcting, like correcting for that. Yeah.
[00:09:23] Crystal Waddell: And then the next thing I was gonna say, one thing I learned like with that May, 2020 update. is that I believe I, my site might have been hit by that update because I also used surfer and when I learned how to use surfer, one of the recommendations from surfer itself, or one of the webinars was that you could store your images on surfer.
[00:09:48] Crystal Waddell: And so I was like, oh, this is so great. I can have these giant images and they can live on surfer, and so I'll just copy and paste my surfer article. Into my Shopify blog, so [00:10:00] I wanna tell you what I do instead now, because I think that is a problem. Like I really still have to comb through a lot of those blogs that I wrote because I was on fire.
[00:10:09] Crystal Waddell: I was writing like 20, 30 blogs during that period of time. And every time I go back through them, I am actually deleting the server SEO art that is the image. and I'm replacing it with a native uploaded picture to Shopify. So that's one thing that I would say, in terms of when you use any kind of AI copywriting tool.
[00:10:34] Crystal Waddell: I would suggest that you format whatever you're doing for the platform that you're using, whether you know it's W or Shopify or WordPress or whatever. And one thing that I would definitely do with the text is copy the text into a Google Doc, but right click it so that you copy it and paste it without formatting.
[00:10:54] Crystal Waddell: And so it's a little bit of a
[00:10:56] Crystal Waddell: to go back through. Reformat to headings and [00:11:00] things like that. But those are just a few of the things that I've started to do since I've heard about AI detection. And then the final thing would be like if you use surfer, surfer actually now has a free integrated.
[00:11:15] Crystal Waddell: Plagiarism tool so you can actually check your articles for plagiarism. And what's hilarious is that I write blogs for different people, right? And so I hadn't noticed the plagiarism tool until after I'd written a blog for one of my clients and submitted it on her behalf to Google Search Console. So when I saw the plagiarism tool, I was like, oh, let me check this out.
[00:11:38] Crystal Waddell: It found that article. and said that it was plagiarized, but it was the exact same article, so it was really funny. Oh. But I do appreciate that surfer has built that tool into the surfer SEO offer now. So I just wanted to throw that out there in response
[00:11:52] Brittany Herzberg: to all the things that Laura was talking
[00:11:54] Laura Jawad: about.
[00:11:55] Laura Jawad: Yeah. I'll just add to the surfer conversation and say, I think surfer is like the best of [00:12:00] AI when it comes to supporting F C O. I use surfer on most of. Blog articles. So the one that I just put up, this walking one that I referred to, that I just used as like a test to see how I could have chat G B T kind of assist a blog post.
[00:12:16] Laura Jawad: I didn't optimize that in surfer cuz I didn't write that with SEO in mind necessarily. But for. Most of my articles I do, I write them, actually. I write them in Hemingway. This is my workflow. I write them in Hemingway and then I copy and paste it into surfer. And then I use surfer to sharpen the pencil.
[00:12:37] Laura Jawad: And I'm finding that the article, like since I've started doing that, my articles get picked up by Google. Way faster. Way faster. That's really cool. I need, so I think in general, surfers are really powerful tool and I think because it doesn't put an AI stamp on your work the same way that something like Jasper or Chad, G b t might, because it's not generating any text for you, like for people [00:13:00] who aren't familiar with it, surfer, s e o is a tool.
[00:13:03] Laura Jawad: That helps you optimize your articles for seo based on your focus, keyword related keywords that Google expects to see in an article about your focus keyword. And then also for the number of images, the number of headings, the word length that an article with that focus keyword should have in order to compete with the top 10, the current top 10 Google search results.
[00:13:28] Laura Jawad: So it really just provides. a lot of it's like a bumper lanes, right? If you're going bowling, like I feel like surfer provides like bumpers for you like to write your article and stay within these parameters to have a good shot at ending up on page one. But you write all your own text.
[00:13:47] Laura Jawad: So it's very different from these other tools in that. I
[00:13:51] Brittany Herzberg: muted myself how that was Grace Vault . I was like, I wanna talk. I've seen Surfer and that's the one that has the really cool gas [00:14:00] gauge. So it tell, or at least Crystal has called it the gas gauge. So it tells you like, this isn't performing so hot or this wouldn't perform it's best, but here's what you can do to optimize it.
[00:14:09] Brittany Herzberg: And it's really, really cool to be able to see that as you're actually creating the thing. So I, yep. Haven't been the best at using it, but I can definitely. See, and I would also agree with you that I think it probably is the best tool that I've seen as far as helping you to optimize content that you're putting out there.
[00:14:26] Laura Jawad: Yeah it's my favorite for sure. I recommend just I don't know, try it on a few articles you'll get hooked. But I like it cuz you can write articles in there so you can optimize before you publish. But then you can also, for older articles you can.
[00:14:40] Laura Jawad: Have it, you can give it a u r url and focus keyword you are hoping to rank for, and then it'll tell you what your score is. So it'll give you the gas gauge and then it'll tell you what you can do to improve that score. So I like that you can use it. It's really nice.
[00:14:56] Brittany Herzberg: I'm selfishly making a note for myself to do that. Yeah.[00:15:00]
[00:15:00] Crystal Waddell: And one other thing I wanted to bounce back to what Laura was talking about earlier, and it's funny because we've talked about creating this show because we wanna help other entrepreneurs not feel so alone. And when I first discovered Jasper, and not even, and this is before Jasper Chat came out, before chat, G P T came out, I used to ask Jasper questions, so if I was a little bit unfamiliar with the topic, knowing that Jasper knows you, So much of the internet before 2019, I would ask Jasper like some statistics or some in background information on a topic that I wanted to understand more, and like for purposes of illustration, let's say UX design.
[00:15:42] Crystal Waddell: because I'd heard about UX design and I was like, I was interested in it, but I didn't fully understand what it meant. And so I would actually have conversations with this tool about UX design. And so I thought it was really interesting when you were talking about, how you were using chat G p t and you know [00:16:00] how it's just like this natural chat back and forth.
[00:16:02] Crystal Waddell: It's like actually a way to bounce ideas off of something. Yeah, get feedback and new ideas. Jasper created this new concept for my business for Collagen Wood, where we make these giant photo collages. One of Jasper's call to actions in one of the generated, like a I D A formulas or whatever, was to ship the collages in a custom keepsake box.
[00:16:30] Crystal Waddell: That's how you got that idea. That's where I got that idea. . Yeah. And that's now a major upsell for our collages. And people in their reviews have actually mentioned the box as one of their favorite things about the whole process. And that was a Jasper generated idea.
[00:16:48] Brittany Herzberg: That's wild. I'll say the only thing, the only time that I've actually gone in and used, I don't think I've used, if I did use Jasper, I only used it once, but the only time I've really used chat, G B T I wasn't actually using it.
[00:16:59] Brittany Herzberg: I was watching I was [00:17:00] in a. Webinar that Brenda McGowan was doing, and she was sharing how she likes using it, especially related to pre-launch. And so she was like taking, I remember she took a lot of cl, like testimonials, client language, and she dropped it in there and then she asked it a question about it like, what are the top five problems that.
[00:17:19] Brittany Herzberg: Clients are having, or clients are commenting on or however she phrased it. So I could see definitely how the, these programs would help you ideate, but also I noticed how it helps you to organize things. So like that was very interesting and well, I'm, I guess this falls under ideation too, but the.
[00:17:37] Brittany Herzberg: Death stare of the blinking cursor, how it's just like staring at you and you're like, I don't know what to write. Like this for sure would help you get out of your like writer's block. I could see those three things. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:49] Laura Jawad: I've asked chat g p t, the question and it'll give me a response and nine outta 10 times, like the response is not dialed in because it's not appropriate to like my [00:18:00] population. Or it's not nuanced enough or it's, but sometimes just seeing oh, that would be like a cool way to approach this is like just enough to.
[00:18:08] Laura Jawad: Get me writing. And so yeah, like absolutely.
[00:18:12] Brittany Herzberg: Yeah, I could see that. So I'm still like, I still haven't brought it into my practice, but it's very interesting to hear how both of you are using it.
[00:18:20] Laura Jawad: Yeah. So I told you before the call, I was gonna share a couple ways that I've used chat c b T Yes. In the last week.
[00:18:25] Laura Jawad: So already told you I did use it. To see a blog post, which is not something I regularly do. That was really just like an experiment. But things that it ha that I've used it for, I put that article, I uploaded it last night to my WordPress and usually I spend like quite a bit of time thinking about my meta descriptions and I'm in the middle of a launch.
[00:18:42] Laura Jawad: I just don't have time right now. And so I asked chat g B T to write me 155 character meta description containing a particular focus keyword about the following text. And I just pasted the whole blog article into the chat box and it came up with something pretty darn. [00:19:00] And again, I had to tweak it because like the output was really generic.
[00:19:04] Laura Jawad: It wasn't like specific to pregnant and postpartum people, which my article was, so I tweaked that output, but it's just, it saved me so much time. It saved me so much time. It came up with something very good and I was like, I'm gonna have this right. All my meta descriptions now, I've used it to help with headlines when I'm having trouble coming up with.
[00:19:24] Laura Jawad: a nice headline and I like it cuz you can say, give me a headline that's under 55 characters, right? You can give it these constraints. And it's very good with that. And I've also used it to help me with, I think alliteration is the wrong word, but the example is I've been percolating this idea for a piece that, it's like kind of
[00:19:45] Laura Jawad: like five ingredients five pillars of X and four of my five starting with a P. And I was like, oh, it'd be cute if I could make them all start with a P. Yeah. And so I like, I explained it, I went into CHE Bt and I was like, Hey. And I do talk to [00:20:00] it like a person, which is a little bit embarrassing, but I'm like, Hey, like I'm writing this article about X, Y, Z, and here are like the five points that I wanna make.
[00:20:09] Laura Jawad: Can you make point number five, start with a. . And it did, it came up with something so good and I just wouldn't have come up with it. And now it's so much cuter. , because I have these five peas.
[00:20:22] Brittany Herzberg: That is cute. I love alliteration.
[00:20:23] Brittany Herzberg: So I've
[00:20:24] Laura Jawad: really been using it just as a coworker, right?
[00:20:27] Laura Jawad: Can you help me with this task? And just to what Crystal said earlier, when you're working alone and you just need to like, bounce ideas. It's just so good. Yes. Crystal.
[00:20:35] Crystal Waddell: I just love this so much because, and we've talked about this before, but this whole idea of giving every tool that you work with a.
[00:20:42] Crystal Waddell: and I have meant to go through and just create a, master jaw board of all of the hats that I wear in my particular businesses. , and then let. , these AI tools fill the roles because even using a scheduling tool or organization software like [00:21:00] Notion or click up or whatever, now you have a personal assistant that's reminding you of the task that you need to do.
[00:21:05] Crystal Waddell: We just talked about that a few weeks ago. But yeah, having Jasper to just brainstorm ideas with and the other idea. , we want to say the same things over and over again, but to ourselves, we sound redundant. . But using a tool like Jasper, I can create the same type of content so many different ways.
[00:21:25] Crystal Waddell: I didn't even realize there were so many different ways to say the same thing. And because I saw Jasper outline it, how these different ways to say it, then I realized, Of course I need to say it over and over again because there's different ways of looking at it and I just, I'm really grateful to the whole process because like meta descriptions, are you kidding me?
[00:21:46] Crystal Waddell: With e-commerce, we gotta create like 70, 80 meta descriptions. I'm sorry, I just don't have the brain power for that. And especially they have to be a certain number of characters or whatever, the keyword has to be in the certain spot. [00:22:00] So these tools just really. A more level playing field for smaller businesses, whether it's a team of one or a team of two, or a team of five, it just really helps all of us generate what we need so much faster.
[00:22:14] Crystal Waddell: I
[00:22:14] Brittany Herzberg: can definitely see the use case for them. So and like I said, it's very interesting. .
[00:22:18] Laura Jawad: But I wanna make sure we also touch on, cause I'm just cognizant of time and I feel like this conversation would be incomplete without talking about the limitations. And I think like one of the major limitations, and one of the major reasons I don't use it to write, for example, my blog articles, is because, because these tools are riffing on what already exists, right?
[00:22:41] Laura Jawad: Like they're trained on the internet in a particular. and they don't come up with original content. So I think that they work really well if you're trying to write a, like a 1 0 1 article, right? Like you're describing a topic. But I think if you want to be a thought [00:23:00] leader and you want to create truly original contents, I love how Risa.
[00:23:06] Laura Jawad: Corcoran talks about it, like chat, c p t can't create an unable message. I think she put it so well when she said that but I think that's where we have to really careful, cause I think it's really easy to get excited about all, like you really can create a lot of volume with these tools.
[00:23:27] Laura Jawad: But if you want to be a thought leader in your space, you do have to write your own stuff because Google is going to reward original content, but also like you become better at what you do by writing your own content. Like I learned through writing. It's how I process things. And if I didn't do all that writing and processing, I would be less good at what I do. It would be giving up an opportunity to deepen my own knowledge and expertise if I let a tool do all my [00:24:00] writing for me.
[00:24:00] Laura Jawad: So I think those are two really good reasons to really think about how you're gonna use the tools. Like obviously there's so many good uses of these tools and I am not anti Chatt G P T, but I do think being thoughtful about the application is important. .
[00:24:18] Brittany Herzberg: And I would even say just really quick, just one line.
[00:24:20] Brittany Herzberg: Like it helps you when you're doing your writing, when you're doing the ideation, it helps you also be like, this is the opinion that I have. . And you may find that because of the ideas that you get, but like it, it allows you to have the space to have an opinion.
[00:24:33] Crystal Waddell: No, I think that's great.
[00:24:34] Crystal Waddell: And that's what I was gonna say with what Laura was talking about I think you get better. I think I got better and more confident in what I'm doing because I was researching like the different ways that people do things and the other, advantage I see to, having the.
[00:24:49] Crystal Waddell: The mindset that, hey, look, this information, number one may or may not be correct because I have a client who is in the finance area and the information that's out [00:25:00] there about taxes and different things, people are just imitating other people who are ranking. And if that first person wasn't correct in what they were saying, then they're all imitating something that's not even true.
[00:25:10] Crystal Waddell: So this was an opportunity for her to come in and say, This is what's really going on with this particular topic. This is the truth, not the, replicated. Wrong message over here. This, let me give you 20, 23 information, and this is the truth, so I love it too because it gives you an opportunity to see the new angles.
[00:25:29] Crystal Waddell: And especially if you have a way, if you are generating ideas and you're creative and you have a way of doing something that's not what 2019, says, then there's a huge opportunity for you to share I'll say it again. When Clubhouse came around, I was having conversations with Pinterest leaders, and I'm gonna put that in quotation marks, Pinterest leaders who were talking about stuff.
[00:25:50] Crystal Waddell: Was what other people had taught for years and years. But I'm actively using Pinterest every day for a Shopify store, and I'm telling people [00:26:00] about features that they never heard about before, because they're happening now. They're not. What happened over the last three or four or five years?
[00:26:06] Crystal Waddell: I think that all of these tools I'm 100% in favor of 'em and I love 'em, and I have so much fun with them. But I think that they're a place where our creativity can just launch off. . It's a boost. It's a boost for what we already do. And if we already do it well, we're gonna continue to do it well.
[00:26:22] Crystal Waddell: But if you're gonna depend on it and not create anything new, then it's not gonna serve a helpful purpose for the user or the reader, or anybody.
[00:26:31] Laura Jawad: Yeah. . Absolutely. These tools are only as powerful as the inputs that you enter
[00:26:36] Crystal Waddell: there's a name for that. It's called prompting.
[00:26:38] Laura Jawad: I didn't realize that. It's an art, right? , it's an art and it still requires like good ideas and good thought organization and just. to make a little note about what you just said, this kind of comes back to my Four little rules for using chat G P T that we talked about earlier, but like fact checking man, like these tools don't know truth from why. They do not know that's something they are not capable of yet. And so they do generate [00:27:00] false information and so you cannot count on them to be factually correct. . Yep. So it's super important for people to understand and we talked
[00:27:06] Crystal Waddell: about that before.
[00:27:07] Crystal Waddell: What, I don't remember who we were talking with, but just the fact. Computers don't understand the human experience, yeah. And they don't understand. , they don't understand emotions and feelings, even though they think they do . According to that being chatbot, I don't know if you heard about the funny slash horror stories from that thing.
[00:27:25] Crystal Waddell: That was like getting upset and calling people names and different things because no he was sure it was 2021, but yeah, I think there's good and there's bad and that the thing that bothers me the most about tools like this is that you always have. Bad kids in the class. Yeah.
[00:27:42] Crystal Waddell: You know who no matter what, they're gonna do the wrong thing because they want attention or because they want the easy way or whatever. And so you've got people out there generating like horrible things. , horrible things that suit their hateful agendas or whatever. And it's why do great things always have to be abused?
[00:27:59] Crystal Waddell: [00:28:00] The powers
[00:28:00] Brittany Herzberg: in the hands of the user. User. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:28:03] Crystal Waddell: So that's the major negative that I see, but for marketing, oh my gosh. The possibilities and the ideas that can be generated. Every person that I've ever created, say a problem, agitate solution formula for, for their product or for their business, I'm like, tell me about your business.
[00:28:21] Crystal Waddell: And they tell me about their business. I put it into Jasper, spit something out, and people are like, on the floor. Oh. I can't believe that's so amazing. And I know that's how I felt the first time I used it too. But it's it makes our own words better if you give it those great prompts.
[00:28:36] Crystal Waddell: And I know there's so much negative, but from the marketing side, there's so much positive. And I just wanna stress that as well. And
[00:28:43] Brittany Herzberg: I feel like humans, like never, it's not gonna Your jobs aren't gonna go anywhere. And I just had this conversation with someone this morning oh my gosh, is it gonna take over my job?
[00:28:50] Brittany Herzberg: No, it's not gonna be able to do what you're gonna do, period. But it is a tool and it can be a very helpful tool. I have to push back
[00:28:57] Crystal Waddell: on that because I think it will take [00:29:00] jobs, it will take jobs of the people who are not continuing to innovate. And part of that for me is sad, but the other part of me is look, you can't just sit back and say 15 years ago, this is what we.
[00:29:12] Crystal Waddell: know, The world is so different now, and so I do feel like the people who are. looking forward or who may have gotten complacent, like complacency is being exposed. All over the world, there's just so much more of a lens on it. So it's like in those areas, yeah, there's gonna be some upheaval and it may not be pretty, so I can't say that I don't think it's gonna take jobs.
[00:29:34] Crystal Waddell: I think it will some for the better and some for the worst jobs.
[00:29:37] Laura Jawad: You do what? I think it'll create jobs
[00:29:39] Crystal Waddell: too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:29:41] Laura Jawad: Can I share a funny story and I wish I could remember the exact. Prompt that I put in. I was trying to have chat, G P T, help me write some little blurb, and it was like super boring and so I asked it if he could write something edgier.
[00:29:55] Laura Jawad: , and it replied and said that it was not allowed to write. , [00:30:00] like rude, offensive, or vulgar content. And so it could not like, fulfill my request. I was like, is that what edgy means? ? I thought it was like, I just wanted something that just sounded like a little bit more fun than whatever it had output.
[00:30:12] Laura Jawad: But I thought it was really interesting because there is this concern about all of the, racist, xenophobic, offensive content that it was generating for a time. I don't know if it's still generating some of. But clearly they're trying to train it to not provide all that like, and I couldn't believe my question got flagged.
[00:30:31] Laura Jawad: Yeah. Because I'm sure people are asking it to do worse stuff. I thought it was funny, but I just thought it would share that you pushed the wrong button
[00:30:39] Laura Jawad: and I'll say like, I always have surfer SEO open. I always have chat G P T Open. And then my other favorite tool is my Hemingway. . Yeah.
[00:30:46] Brittany Herzberg: Have you seen, I think it's called vocalize. Justin Blackman came out with it, and that's actually like a tone version of Hemingway.
[00:30:53] Brittany Herzberg: It's more for copy writers, like for tone, no, what did I call it? . Okay, so it's verbatim dot brand voice [00:31:00] academy.com. But it's a brand voice tool. So it's a little bit more for copywriters is the way that they designed it, but it's fascinating.
[00:31:08] Brittany Herzberg: So that's another thing that gets more into like tone of voice and that kind of, .
[00:31:13] Laura Jawad: Yeah. I think here's the thing is like there's good and bad with all these tools, and I think it, and it's definitely easy for me to be a curmudgeon and like when these new things come out, my tendency is to be like, I don't need that.
[00:31:25] Laura Jawad: Oh but I'm really challenging myself. Oh my God, no I resist change, but I'm really challenging myself to explore these things because I think, you mentioned it earlier, right? . If you don't, you're gonna be left in the dust because there is so much potential in all of these tools and you're just doing yourself a disservice by not exploring 'em.
[00:31:46] Laura Jawad: And then you get to choose, like you get to pick and choose which ones work for you and actually support your workflows and support your creativity, but you owe it to yourself to try them, explore them, know what they do, learn their limitations and [00:32:00] let them assist you so you can focus on like the stuff you're really good.
[00:32:04] Laura Jawad: You
[00:32:05] Crystal Waddell: the other thing that I love about it is you just said workflows, and I think workflows is a term that has is really easily overlooked. by all of us because we're just in it and we're doing things all the time.
[00:32:17] Crystal Waddell: And then we forget to write down the actual workflow. So when you go to either get some help or use a program of some sort, there's no information into input, right? So I'm like, . What I love about Jasper is I can go to Jasper right after this is over. I'm gonna go to Jasper and do this. But I can say, Hey, create a blog workflow because I'm creating a blog workflow right now for my clients.
[00:32:39] Crystal Waddell: Because there's a difference between the workflow of, say I create the strategy, you assign it to writers, or if we're going to utilize ai, there's some different things. It just, it can help you break through your own bottle. . And so that's another way to use it where you're not actually writing something for the internet.
[00:32:58] Crystal Waddell: I do a lot of my own [00:33:00] writing, but what I use Jasper for is to break through different roadblocks that I have that may or may not have anything to do with copywriting. ,
[00:33:08] Brittany Herzberg: that's awesome. Are there any other thoughts that you thought of, Laura?
[00:33:11] Brittany Herzberg: No,
[00:33:12] Laura Jawad: I think think we covered everything. Really what I wanted to talk about was. , the advantages and the disadvantages, right? And then really just put front and center kind of those four rules for people who are using this to create a lot of content on their website to make sure that their AI generated content really is working for them and for their website as opposed to against them.
[00:33:34] Laura Jawad: Yeah. .
[00:33:35] Brittany Herzberg: I like. I like that. I think it was really interesting to hear just like how both of you use them and the good and the bad, like you said, and then the best practices and the, even the workflow, like I thought it was really cool to hear all about that. Can you tell us like where can people connect with you or can they find you?
[00:33:50] Brittany Herzberg: All the good stuff?
[00:33:51] Laura Jawad: Yeah. Okay. I'm working on a new website, but currently I still, folks can still find firstname.lastname@example.org, which is my personal training [00:34:00] website. But if you would like to connect with me, you can get on my SEO newsletter, which is laura.com/seo newsletter.
[00:34:09] Laura Jawad: . That will hook you up with my SEO content and then I will let you, Brittany and Crystal know when I have my new website up. Yeah. So that'll be up, that'll be up soon.
[00:34:19] Brittany Herzberg: Yay. That's really exciting. Thanks for being back and joining us again.
[00:34:22] Brittany Herzberg: This was, I'm glad that we covered this topic cuz it's been such a hot topic recently, .
[00:34:26] Laura Jawad: Yeah, it's super fun to have an opportunity to talk through it because it is so relevant,
[00:34:30] Crystal Waddell: yay. When B told me that you wanted to come on and talk about this, I was like,
[00:34:34] Brittany Herzberg: your face has been lit up this entire podcast.
[00:34:37] Brittany Herzberg: I just need you to know that, like probably more so than any other podcast, like you love these tools, .
[00:34:43] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, it's my favorite topic. And you know what, the last thing I just wanna say is that I just feel like it, it evens the playing field. , for really small businesses, they, there's such pressure in the online world to do all these things, but then there's pressure.
[00:34:57] Crystal Waddell: Oh, you don't have to wear all the hats, offload that. And [00:35:00] it's look, if I'm not generating 150 Gs a year, I have no business, hiring a bunch of people, , you gotta get to that point first. And these tools help you get to that point without killing yourself.
[00:35:11] Brittany Herzberg: Bam, beautifully said.
[00:35:14] Crystal Waddell: I love it.
[00:35:15] Brittany Herzberg: Thanks again. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye friends. Bye. Bye.
[00:35:21] Crystal Waddell: Laura, thanks for joining us today.
[00:35:24] Brittany Herzberg: If you like this info, subscribe before you go so you never miss out on something related to SEO .
[00:35:30] Crystal Waddell: See you next time.