Today we are talking the connection between MESSAGING and SEO with Marisa Corcoran.
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And the biggest thing I wanted to get out of that was to improve my storytelling. And now I get to use that with case study. So it's storytelling and seo. Here we are. I'm just like really excited to get into this because SEO and messaging are so closely related. Hello and welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show Where we provide tips and advice to improve your website's search engine ranking.
I'm Brittany Herzberg, SEO copywriter for Holistic health and Wellness Pros who want to show up as the answer to a Googled Question. And I'm Crystal Waddell, an e-commerce seller and content creator. I help business owners communicate the value of their products and services through content so you can make more sales and grow your business. We are business besties who love learning and sharing what we've learned.
So what are we waiting for? Let's jump in, as Crystal just said with another one of my friends. We have Marissa Corcoran here. Today we're gonna be talking about messaging and seo. So hi ladies. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just like such a treat to be here. Crystal, I didn't say this to you before we started,
but I really love your sweater. Oh, thank you. My nephew's girlfriend gave it to me for Christmas and it's so warm. She told me, she said, it's so warm. And then I put it on and now it's like, oh gosh, I could live in this thing. So yeah, It's really cute. Love it. I love it.
Oh, it's really comfy. Yeah, and it's really nice to meet you too because be talks very highly of you and I'm really excited to meet you in person. So thanks for being here. Yeah, This is Treat. Thanks for having me. I just love having my friends on. So why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are,
why I love you so much, and what you're doing here. Well, maybe I'll let you say why you love, you know, I, you can say why you love me so much. Yeah. So yeah, as you said, I'm Marie Corrin and I support business owners to create their unable message and the copy that supports it. And I always talk about that.
You know, a lot of people think that when you think about your copy, that that's like the icing on the cake. Okay, well I'll, I'll figure that out after X, Y, and Z is in place. And I always say that copy isn't the icing on the cake. It is the cake, it's the butter, it's the gluten flee,
it's the gluten-free flour. If you're like me, it's the eggs. It's how these other things that we wanna have happen in our business starts to come alive. Because I always say that your business has three basic needs. You have to be able to sell in a way that feels good. If you don't have buyers, you don't have a business you wanna call in the right people to sell to.
That's number two. We know this is lead generation or audience growth. And then number three is you have to know what to say and how to say it to call in the right people to sell to, which is why your copy is such, so important to being found, to being known. And I'm unlocking what I call the three Rs, how people will remember you rave about you and refer you.
And that's what we do inside of our, which you know, Brittany, you're an alumni of the program. What we do inside of our signature program, the Copy Confidence Society, we help you uncover what to say and how to say it so you can magnetically attract your dream clients with the words that you're using on your website, on your social media,
your emails, and how you talk about what you do. Exactly. Beautiful drive. I love it. I'll give a little bit of a backstory just to make the connection. So in 2020, Marisa is actually the reason I even discovered I'm a copywriter because you had the copy chat and I was at the time a massage therapist, but I was home looking for things to do.
I love learning. I, I don't even know why or how, but I saw this summit that you do and I was like, all right, I'm in. So I listened to I think every single interview and each one I was like, wait, I do that, wait, I do that too, but I do this too. So like by the end of it I'm like,
oh my gosh, I'm a copywriter. And then the rest is kind of history. But in 2021, the opportunity presented itself again and I was like, I've got to be in this. Like I had watched your leave a morning wear masterclass at least twice. I loved everything you had to say. I was just like so inspired every time I listened to anything you had to say.
And so I was like, all right, I'm in. And the biggest thing I wanted to get out of that was to improve my storytelling. And now I get to use that with case study. So it's storytelling and seo. Here we are. I'm just like really excited to get into this because SEO and messaging her so closely related. Yeah. Ugh.
I love that. I I love that the copy chat, was that that entry point for you? Yeah, I've heard this for so many people that for their business that the copy chat was such a, a lifeline for them to either like uncover something about a specialty that they wanted to go into for their business or a copy that could, you know,
support them to do that. And so I, I love hearing that we're bringing the copy chat back this year for season seven. Yes. Which we took a break last year, but it's coming back in July of 2023, a summer blockbuster. So excited. One thing that I wanna make sure we get to, cuz I know we have so many other things to touch on,
I love asking the guests, how do you define seo? What do you think of when you think of seo? There are no wrong answers. I love getting just like the variety. Yeah. How I always think about it is that Google, I always just think everything in Google, right? Like Google is like people are Searchie. We we're using Google all the time,
you know, I'm always asking like, Hey Siri, like am like tell me x, X whatever I need, you know? And then she will be like, okay, here's the things and it takes me to Google. And so for me SEO is like how do you become one of those things that Siri's like oh here's the answer. Like how do you rise to the top of somebody who's asking Siri or maybe typing it?
I'm typing all day so anytime I cannot Typing, I'm like, Hey Siri, when you know how old is like I ask you, I look at my search sometimes I'm like, I'm always laughing at just like the things that like I'm asking Siri to tell me. But how do you become one of those answers at the top in your niche, in your specialty to be the answer to a question or to a search that somebody is making on Google?
Bingo. Is that good? I love it. You got an a look at you. You got a gold star. Yeah. As you both know, this is your zone of genius. I mean this matters so much. You know, in 2023 I feel more than ever I'm colleagues, friends, I can't scroll on social media on Instagram without hearing somebody talk about like 2023 is the year that like the online world is gonna be flooded with the most businesses ever.
The market is like the most saturated ever because we've come off of 2020 and the endless year that was 2020, which is like two years long really, you know, I was like 2022 was still 2020. And we have more people that are wanting to create like their own freedom, their own schedule, their time, their business. And I actually think this is,
I listen to this podcast called Smart Lifts with Jason Bateman and Will Arnette and Sean Hayes. And one of them brings on a guess it's a, it's a surprise to the other two. And I love it cuz I come from the actor world and I love it. And they had Steven Spielberg on a couple weeks ago and they were asking him, you know,
how do you feel about all the streaming? We don't even have to wait for things to be in the movies. It's like everything is can be available on Netflix and movies and all this. And Steven Spielberg was like, I think it's the coolest thing. He was like, I wish that directors in my day had had that. I'm sure we would've had so many other directors that would've had their big break.
There's just more opportunity for stories and for artists he's like, I just think it's awesome and I feel the same way in the online world. So now the question becomes, okay, how are you truly then gonna stand out and have people find you and be known? And that's where why SEO is just so important to help you do that. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Yeah. I feel like every week is a surprise guest week. Are you good? I just, I was reflecting like as you guys were chatting, I remember be making this transition from being a service provider to, I think I wanna do copy and then really fully embracing being a copywriter, you know, so it's interesting to hear the behind the scenes of how that worked with you guys and as you think about sel,
I love that you say that there's just more opportunity and more space for everybody. I think that's one of the big misconceptions I think and and I've had that thought too. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm too late, you know, or there's other people already doing this and why should I do this? And every time I speak to a client I realize I'm saying something that they have not heard before.
If they have heard it before. However I'm saying it is making it seem fresh and new to where they don't think they've ever heard it before. So that has been like really reassuring. I think having that experience, once people start, you know, sharing their story and talking to clients and sharing what they know, they'll realize that they do have something to contribute.
So I totally agree with you, there's room for everybody. I love the Steven Spielberg drop. And then the last thing I wanted to say is I was just actually working on some meta descriptions today for one of my clients and I was thinking about how so many times, especially I deal with product sellers, so a lot of times it's like I sell a t-shirt so it's like brand name of t-shirt dash t-shirt or whatever,
you know, and it's very dry and it's not real descriptive or interesting. And then, you know, as you start to search for what somebody actually does, like say they customize it in a specific way and all of a sudden all of these other search results come up that are related to what you do and it just, it's like it becomes more and more clear the more you find your place.
So you guys kind of catching what throwing out there, whatever. Yeah So hundred percent. Yeah. So I just, I love what you said and I just think that seo, a lot of people are scared of it, but it's actually, it's a journey to clarity, you know? It really is. So that's just what I wanted to share.
Yeah, I love that. And we talk a ton in the society about how do you position yourself as a specialist in a seat of generalists so that you can rise to the top of the Siri Searchie know. And what you're saying Crystal is exactly that. Okay, you saw a t-shirt, oh you customize it, okay. There's always these little Like nuances Call it carving these nuances to get to like the core of that specificity which only helps you be found with more ease,
be known, be able to deliver to the, the ideal client that you wanna deliver to, to create frameworks that people can walk through. And of course we're gonna, you know, again customize certain things but frameworks that people can walk through helping your different learning styles or people that are coming to you to like really get that ROI that's promised or love that product.
And it just makes every, I'll never say it's easy to run a business. I'm like sometimes like whose idea was this? You know, why are we doing this same? But I think you can be quite simple. I think we lose sight of that when we get wrapped up in all these other things, which is like, okay, be a specialist in the sea of generalists.
Talk about it everywhere you can, you know? And like we, there's actually these like a, a simple path you can follow. Yeah. And I think for what works really well with the society and what you highlight so beautifully is be yourself. If you start there and you figure out who you are, you're gonna start calling in naturally those like best fit clients,
the ones that resonate with it might be your why, it might be your lifestyle, it might be a a number of things. And if you can start to call those out, even with a t-shirt, like when you were bringing up that example, there's a woman named Lindsay Burke on Instagram and she had, she had two children, she talks about this example with flamingos like flamingos when they have kids,
the males and the females, the mom and dad like lose their pink. And then because it's like so draining to be a parent and well in theory I'm not one, but in theory as your chick grows older, like you get your pink back. So she has this t-shirt that says get your pink back. So it's literally what I was thinking about and like the why behind the t-shirt,
it just calls in the right people and there's such a story behind that and you could put that in the description, you could call that out with the testimonials. But because she was speaking about her experience, something that matters to her, like it's it's got the emotional piece, it's got the personality piece, it's got the findable piece. Yep. That's such a good example.
And it makes you like you love and you fe you, there's something behind it that like it makes you feel something It it. And that's the beauty of storytelling is that it connects you to an idea more than if somebody just like this person like got on a soapbox and was like, hey, being a parent is, is is dreaming and it's time for you to like light yourself again.
You Know what I mean? Like we're our brain storytelling is our oldest form of communication and so being able to share these little like slice of life moments or these little almost like parables for people is way easier for people to digest that content. I Didn't worry about this. Crystal used to be a teacher and she raises her hand. If she doesn't you can keep Chatting.
I love That. No, no go. I love it. Yeah. So I'm wondering because we chatted a little bit on Instagram before you came today and it was funny because I think you had something on your Instagram story that was like, do you have a clear message or whatever And I was like, gosh, if I, if a person was murky water,
like that would be me. Like I wish I could say that I was just this beautiful Christine beautiful place that you could tell exactly what was going on. But it feels like the more I learn the murkier it gets like what the heck am I actually doing here? You know? So and it's not necessarily because I've got shiny object syndrome, I've got some sort of connecting object syndrome because I'm like I am desperate to connect all the dots all the time and tie it up in a bow and just be done with it.
But online business is just like this endless sea of stars. You're never going to connect all the dots. So if there's someone out there that is like me, How you get to the heart of what your message is. Yeah, it's such a great question. So inside of the society we use a system called the Proton Pack messaging playbook, which is taken from the Ghostbusters,
the movie, the Ghostbusters, cuz I believe that the Ghostbusters had the greatest messaging of all time. You know who you're gonna call, you know when you're gonna call 'em, there's even a song about it. And so the proton pack is what they wear on their backs to fight the ghosts, the the proton backs. We call this the proton pack messaging playbook.
And there are four Ps that help you start to get to the core of what this message is. And what you said, crystal is so fantastic because there's so many stars. You're never, this is the unsexy answer. You're never gonna connect all the stars. And so if you try to connect the stars in your message, it's actually not the job of your message.
So the job of your message of your what I do statement, someone says, Hey Crystal, what do you do? That statement, the only job of that statement is to be so clear and specific that it has the person following up with you out of curiosity like oh Crystal tell me more. Or I need this or I know someone who needs this.
So usually what we see when people come in this society is they've tried to cram like their, everything that they do in their business inside of the what I do statement, like we do a ton inside of the Copy Confidence Society that in many ways sometimes has nothing to do with copy. Like the first part of the society is like in like this, in in intense,
especially this last round. Cause every round has its own energy. This last round fall of 2022 was like inner work central for people. People were like, I have never even thought about this about myself before, never did this before or oh my gosh like the community this that. But that's not what I'm selling in the message. The message is I'm gonna help you uncover what to say and how to say it to magnetically attract your dream clients.
And then when you get on the inside, oh my gosh there's this, it helped me do this, it helped me do that. But the message just has to be this like super clear first step that people are following up out of that curiosity and not out of confusion. They don't have to think about it too hard. That's what the four Ps inside of the society we help people do.
And the the Ps are person, product, purpose and perspective. And often one of one of the Ps might come to the forefront like might be more prominent and then the others like don't have to be as prominent. So I'll give you an example. We had this one of our rock stars that came into the society a while back. This person was a health coach and they had a background in nutrition.
So of course they could help people in a variety of ways, right? There's nutrition for weight loss, there's nutrition for gut health, like all sorts of things. But when this person walked themselves through the proton pack and the four Ps, they realized that where they wanted to put their focus again what we're talking about be a specialist and a C of generalists be able to be found on Google.
All of these things was to support people to uncover what to eat and when to eat it to break through to their migraine free life. And the specificity there. And when this person started using this messaging, it had a huge impact on their revenue as well as how simple it became to actually create content and put it out into the world as opposed to being like,
oh nutrition, yeah, you could come to me for weight loss, you could come to me for this, you could come to me for this. It's like boom, I'm here to support you with you know, your hormonal headaches and breaking through to your migraine free life. So the four piece can really help you get clear on what that is. So that's like from an outward place,
like here's the tool, so walk yourself through. But there's also that inner work. So like as a coach or mentor that's in there, I have to as the great Dallas tra Traverse always says, I have to give people the dignity of their own process. Some people will come into the society and they will hit the ground running and they're like oh got it.
Got the message. We had another one of our people, Jane, she was in two rounds ago. Two rounds ago, oh Jane don't we love, I freaking love Jane. So she's Great Much I love pretty much everyone in There. I know it's such a cool crew. And Jean was like, okay, okay well I I help like you know women and that are older,
they're like in midlife and beyond and we do this and we talk about this. And when she walked herself through the system she's like, oh really? What I help people women do is in midlife and beyond get super clear on their finances. Yep. Because their finances then opens the door to them. All these like adjective stuffings that people love to do when they're messaging step into their power embrace more.
But I can say I help people step into their power. Y'all can see how people step into their power with seo, right? So for Jane to be like, oh what I'm actually helping them do is get super clear on their finances, which opens the door to more freedom in their midlife. And as they age for the first time understanding their numbers and their finances,
maybe they're have lost their partner or they're divorced or as an empty nester like really understanding your finances and that was huge clarity for Jane. She went on to create a course around it, like huge clarity. So the PS really helps you do that. But there's also that inner work of being able to say, Hey let me make this choice. We can always change it but we won't know.
I always say you can't spell traction without action. We won't know until you once you put it out there. That's actually a really good point because I just, earlier this morning I was even talking on another podcast about my journey and it's my business journey can be summed up with my Instagram journey. And even as you're talking, I'm like I followed this person for this reason.
I know to go to this person for this thing. And when I had my Instagram profile, at first it was just like I was on Instagram cuz it was fun and it was 2012 and it was a thing that you do and you use the filters and it's like whatever. And then I started posting on it for my massage practice and I was in that weird space where I had one foot in massage,
one foot in copywriting and I was like, I can straddle this, it's fine. Like I can do this. And one day I was like no I can't. Like I can't do that because I'm confusing people to your point, I have to just pick copywriting. Like my massage practice is good, what do I wanna grow? I wanna grow the copywriting thing.
So I remember distinctly having this like come to Jesus moment with myself where I was like I need to just go ahead and what did I say earlier today? It was really good. It was like embrace it until you become it. It's not fake until you make it, but it's more embracing it and putting it out there so people know that they can come to you for that thing.
And even with copywriting, I was like, I'm a copywriter for holistic health and wellness practitioners and now I'm much more like SEO and case study copywriting. So even the what of like what I'm specifically calling out has changed and that's okay. And I've even seen people do that inside c c s where it's like I'm gonna go this route, you're not married to it,
you can Change, no you can change. And you've had clients throughout that journey. Brittany, I think this is what people forget is like you are allowed to change, you're allowed to evolve, you're allowed to expand or shrink or whatever you wanna do. And my main goal for people is like let's, there's a hidden p and it's called the P of profitability.
And I'm always like let's help you create a profitable business. Let's help you create something that people are looking for that is in alignment with what you do that is clear and specific. You can always change or expand from there. Like if I use myself as an example, I got known for copy, I created the copy chat that that's how I got known.
But over the last few years there is another side to what I do now, which is helping people with that second business basic need, which is audience growth, organically generation. We do that through creating a your signature summit. That's another like branch of the business that we have now. But I've been able to expand and do that because I set myself up as a specialist and a sea of generalists to start.
So now I've been able to add these other offers or other branches to the business on top of our signature program, which is the Copy Confidence Society. So it's just another example of like the journey and allowing yourself to be profitable so that you then can go on to add, add stuff. Well I was gonna say since we're all storytelling right now, I kind of figured this out on the e-commerce side because I have an e-commerce store where I sell like these giant wooden letters and different things.
And on Instagram a couple years ago I would post one day I would post about nursery letters because we have this giant machine that can cut out nursery letters and then the next day I would post about high school volleyball but like the volleyballs that I make, like collages and stuff. But the thing is, the first time mama who is getting nursery wall letters is not relating to that next day's post of a senior graduating from high school.
And it took me a long time to realize that oh my goodness, I have to figure out what is my favorite, most profitable product that I wanna sell more of that actually takes the least amount of my time but still brings joy to my clients. I need to figure out what that is and promote that. And then yeah I can still sell the other stuff but what I'm known for is this particular thing.
And it really helped me have a consistent message there. So e-commerce wise, I really have gotten it, but service provider wise it's been a a little bit more difficult because sometimes it seems like okay, there's a group of people who want you to do it for them. There's a group of people that don't quite understand, you know, why it's the best thing for them.
And then there's certain people who love it but they don't wanna pay for it. And then there's like your perfect client, you know what I mean there. So I would, I've been so used to it just saying, hey here's the thing, like you use the thing in this way and people are like, okay cool, I buy it, I ship it,
that's the transaction and it's great. These types of things like with service delivery are so much different, you know, because it's not just that simple transaction. And so I feel like that that is a challenge, you know, when you're selling online. Yeah, Yeah. And if I can add on to that Crystal and me this will be helpful for you and anyone who's listening is always say your best clients,
especially as you're first starting out, are gonna be those people who are what we call in the copy world, like the closest to kind of solution aware. They understand that they need this thing. And this is why I always tell people like support those people have get really great testimonials from them. It's likely that that might be a little bit more of like a done for you experience.
And as you build that then so your overall messaging is still the same. So now what we're talking about is offer messaging and offer messaging is a little bit different than your overall messaging. So if the overall message then within there there's like, hey, I support you, I can can do it for you. And then maybe eventually you add on another offer that is more of a done with you or a course or something for people that are like in that that stage or that's where they're at in their,
in their journey. But a lot of times what people will do is they'll, and there's differing thoughts on this, okay, so I don't like I support anything. There's no, there's no one right way don't Come matters. There's no one view you. But a lot of times when people try to serve, that's like a lot, there's a lot of scattered and that also takes away from being a specialist and a sea of generals cuz it's not just the,
the overall message, it's being clear on what the offers are. So yeah, underneath that umbrella of copy, I tell people this, if you, I used to be a done for you copywriter and I also had the Copy Confidence Society. So for a while I was still taking private people. So I'd be like awesome, if you want me to do it for you,
this is what it looks like and if this is a skill that you wanna hone, then you should be on the Copy Confidence Society. But it was still under the umbrella. I'm gonna help you uncover what to say and how to say it to magnetically attract your dream clients. And now I don't have, I don't write for people privately anymore and not my favorite thing to do is help give jobs to other copywriters,
which this week alone I've given like three like that's awesome. This week alone I'm like, oh hook that person up, hooked up. It's just like the best. I love it. And the main kind of is in the Copy Confidence Society. So I think it's also looking at that overall message and then supporting people. And I know for me, my done for you clients and the results that I got for people helped me then take that to create the Copy Confidence Society.
And I think that gives you confidence. So that's a way that I recommend because I think that gives you confidence as opposed to trying to help a bunch of, by the time I was supporting people, you know I was working with my private clients, I had retainer clients, okay. The first iteration of the Copy Confidence Society was a small group program.
First time I ever did it, I had 12 people and the second time I did it, I had 15, I had 20, then it was a high ticket group program that really never went above like 25 people. And then after I taught that live like that four times, that's when I turned it into the course that people know today that we now have served over 400 plus people.
But that helped me be able to confidently say, yeah, at a given time we have over a hundred people in the society and I know you're gonna feel seen. I know you're gonna feel taken care of because I've done the work all the way back for my first private client to bring you to that, to that journey. Yeah. If that's helpful at all.
Yeah. And to like add to that, that's where I'm at now is more like I, I have the done free thing locked, like I've got the client experience, like it's good, I have my framework and I just added the training. So now I can say, hey copywriters, do you wanna have the skill of writing case studies? Hey solopreneur,
who's like wearing all the hats and you just need another way to market your offer in a way that feels good and genuine and is findable to tie in seo. I can show you how to do it. So it is, it does still have that overarching same message, but I'm able to help just in a different way. Yep, totally. And I think What's really interesting about the similarities between Copy and SEO to bring it back to seo,
like you were just saying was that the clearer you get on the thing, the easier it is for both. Yeah. You know, and I was on a subscription box podcast recently with Sarah Williams called Launcher Box podcast, go check it out. She said, what is, what is your top tip for e-commerce sellers? And I said, Eliminate the word it from your product descriptions.
Because so many times when you know, like let's say I'm, I'm making a giant wooden letter h I said, you're gonna get it in three days. Well Google doesn't know what it is. So even though it sounds redundant to us, we need to find the long tail keyword or the different ways to describe it so that Google knows, oh it's a wooden letter H or it's a letter H or it's a wood H or whatever,
you know what I mean? And just really use our words to name what we're talking about. But you have to know what you're talking about before you can actually name it. So I, I think that's interesting. That's interesting. That's so good. You should be a coach for e-commerce people. They need you. I should do. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. They need you. Yeah. E-commerce is my specialty with seo. Maybe I'll find my way there. You know, I've been, I dabbled in some Pinterest, you know, and then I dabbled in some Shopify and then now I'm dabbling in seo. I'm not dabbling though. Seo is it, you know, I love seo. It's not leaving,
you know, it's not a fad. Not at all. And that's where like two of your Ps in approach unpacked really come alive. The P of person, which is e-commerce and the P of product or like your position, which is SEO and the P of perspective is also really clear because this is the world that you come from. So you fall into that campo like,
hey, this is how I grew in my business, this is what I figured out and I can help you apply SEO to your e-commerce brand to get known. So you're not like, I'm making this up cuz I'm just like, you know, I shop on Etsy a lot for things. Yeah, exactly. So you're not just just, you know,
drowning in the sea of other Etsy people that is clear and specific and measurable as heck. That is like boom. Something that somebody would be like. So we have a lot of like product based or e-commerce people that come through the society and I can win a hundred percent. We have a ton of product-based people in the society. I used to say like,
you know, we really are for service but we've have a ton, an influx of just like the best people. And I think from that is like helping them bring in their personality and helping them get really clear on what that specialty's gonna be. But after that, like having somebody like you that could support them then with the E, you know, the the s e o and really just like honing in for them,
it's like again being a specialist and a C of generalist. Yeah. And I really appreciate that because initially when I started out I thought, oh, I'm for Shopify sellers. But as I got to know the sea of Shopify sellers, there's a big difference between someone who's transitioning from Etsy, you know, trying to continue to build their brand on their own website and their own domain and utilizing SEO and a drop shipping type of Shopify company,
which a lot of Shopify owners are. They wanna just find the product and have somebody else ship it and they sell it and they just sit there and watch their money grow. But handmade businesses are a lot different. They're entrenched in every aspect of their business. Yeah. And yeah, Can you wanna support the handmade business? Is that what you're Yeah,
yeah. I mean this epic message, you know? Yeah. You know, helping handmade businesses get found on Google and Beyonce, you can sell more of your stuff like yes. Like yes. You know for sure. Yeah. Instead of driving 'em back to Etsy where no offense, Etsy will show the competitors, right? So Yes. And so then that's like,
oh my God we rap this whole website. So then that's like the second part of your website is like, you know how like let's get you focused. If not Etsy's gonna show your competitors better Recording this for you Crystal. I know I'll be listening to it like five times. There'll be like 50 downloads from Crystal. Listen, I love that, I love that.
And it makes it simple now to write it or to see how it can come alive and like again, from an SEO perspective, because this is your zone of genius. Like okay, what do we gotta make sure is in, you know, those header ones and header two is that like Google is crawling and putting those keywords in, but it's so simple to do that because we know what we're,
okay, handmade businesses, seo, like getting off Etsy, like all these things that now come alive. And when we talk about how do we get people to remember you rave about and refer you now I can think about so many people in the society Yeah. Who are looking for this support. And I be like, oh my gosh, I know someone who does this.
Her name is Crystal. I was on her podcast with Britney, you should go hire her. You know what I mean? It makes it easy for people to then refer you or recommend you because they're like, oh I know someone who does this thing. Gosh, you know what's so crazy about this? I'm sorry B I know you wanna, you wanna jump in?
I just wanna say really quick how long I fought this. It's like I started here and then I thought, oh that's too small of a, a pool of people. You know what I mean? I need to expand. I'm still niched in Shopify but I need to expand. But all e-commerce or whatever. And then that's when I found out, oh not all e-commerce is created equal.
So I'm like swimming around, like looking for my home. And it just happened to be like the very place that I started at. Totally. I'm glad you said that Crystal, because so many people and Brittany I know you can comment and you've seen it in a society like a lot of it is that, and remember saying, I get, I gotta give you the dignity of your own process because so many people struggle with it.
And then I just kind of sit back in the office and I wait for them to come to a call and go, actually it's this. And I'm like, yes, it's so much simpler. And we have to remember like There We don't even can comprehend. Like I found this Facebook group one time that was just for corgis that were making like, like different faces,
like Brittany and I know we share this love language of just like dogs making funny that we send to each other too. So it's just this Facebook group that's called Corgis making disapproving Faces or something. And there were 450,000 people in this Facebook group. It's like we forget that like how many handmade businesses like the niche is. So there's so many. It's just that we don't often like think like this.
So it's like you, you niche down to get known, you know? And I think once people can bring them their self, like back there, they're like, oh this is actually the place and you start making more money and you're profitable and it's easier to do. But yeah, I think there's that inner work of being able to come around and go,
oh yeah, this is it. And I think that fight is normal to have at first. For sure. Definitely. So every time you're saying stuff Reese, I'm like slashing back to like what you say inside the society, which is I'm giggling on the inside that I love it. And one thing that you, I think it was you that really drove home was like being repetitive and I think it was not so much something you said,
that's something that I watched you doing. I'm like, oh, she says these things and like I know that that's her. And then I like play that in my head if I'm ever in a moment where I'm like, I don't know, coming up with this story or whatever it may be. And I fought that for a really long time and once I leaned into that I was like,
oh, okay. So something that I say on the podcast a lot, which we actually I had made into stickers because I say it so often is show up as the answer to a Google's question. It's like, that's how I define seo. And that's something that I just kept saying over and over and over to myself, conversations with Crystal, right?
But it's clear. And it was something that I just noticed myself saying over and over again. So I think a lot of it, at least in my experience has been noticing things. I feel like we got like a mini masterclass to the masterclass, to the Yeah, I know. I would just like Y'all, this is the math, this is,
this is Crystal's like personalized, leave him wanting more masterclass. See what we do in the masterclass. Yeah. But see that's, this is why I like connecting people and that's something that happens so organically inside c s and that's like I'm, we've probably had people on the podcast from ccs. I'd have to go back and like look through. But it's incredible like figuring out what your message is,
figuring out like who you are and finally accepting it and then finding a way to put it out into the world. But aside from just like noticing things that you say a lot, is there anything that you would recommend that whoever's listening could like start implementing today? Something like small, A small option that they could do? Yeah, in terms of their messaging do you mean?
Or in terms of like these little, that like phrases that you repeat over and over. Honestly, whatever's coming to you. Yeah. So when it comes to the phrases, so we talk about this in, in the society, it's like your motifs. And this goes back to what you were saying, Brittany is like so often we're worried like, oh my gosh,
we're saying the same thing over and over again. That's a good thing. Yeah. People need to hear things, especially going back to the Steven Spielberg like, you know this online Netflix streaming of online businesses. There's so many. So how you get known is repeating these things over and over again. Cause people need all these different touchpoints. Yeah. So something we talk about in this society is like your motifs and repeating these like three to five things over and over again.
So I'll use myself as an example. I know that in the Copy Confidence Society and how we find these things is asking yourself some questions about like, what are some myths that my ideal clients believe that I need to like get them to understand is not true? What are some objections that I get right? What are some things that I need to help people understand in order for them to be a great candidate to work with me,
to move them through that awareness journey so that I'm not just like pulling people along. I, we call this in the society, like how do you speak to the TERs and not the S So the poo, we all know er I love er, but like ER is just like, it's gonna take a lot for er, you know, but Tigger just needs,
I mean they all have, they all have issues but Tigger just needs a little boost. So we always talk about, I actually have earrings that someone time me like one's a Tigger and one's er. It's like speak to the TERs. And so the way we speak to the TERs is walking yourself through this. So when I'm talking to people I go,
okay, first thing I need to have people understand is just what we talked about with Crystal. I can give you all the copy tips in the world, but if your, what I do statement, I've been doing this long enough to know that most of the time people think they have a copy problem, but you don't. You have a messaging problem.
And when we can unlock the message, the copy becomes quite simple to plug and play. So this like line that I say over and over again, we call it kinesthetic trigger inside of the society is the best copy cannot fix a muddied message. And I say it over and over again, the best copy cannot fix a muddied message. So that helps me get into that post for the day or if I'm on a podcast like this.
Okay, so that's one of my motifs, that's one of my triggers. Okay. The second one is, I always tell people that people make purchasing decisions based on two things. One is what you're selling something that I want, that's your message. And number two, are you the the person that I wanna do it with, which is why your personality matters.
So, but I have to have people understand that personality isn't just being a super like bombastic personality or feeling like you have to like share all like the Kardashians. So I always say personality, I mean if you wanna share all like the Kardashians, I mean bless you, you know, it's all, it's all fine. But I'll say personality is more than just buzzwords.
Okay, that's a motif. And I have like three to five of these. So then like on social media, like Instagram, a place that I love, I'll be like, okay, week 1st of February. I mean we're in launch mode right now, so it's a little bit different. But in ordinary time it's like week one is like, okay, best copy can't fix a muddied message and everything that week goes back to that.
Okay, second week personality is more than just buzzwords in your copy. Okay? Third week is the myth of consistency. And people are like, well I posted today. See I was like, okay, well posting isn't a marketing strategy. So that's the third thing. And then my fourth week is always like my values where I'm really being clear about who I wanna call into the society,
things like that. And then I'm repeating those again and again. And once you put that system into place, like create content around that for about three months, there's really no reason after that point. You can't just literally repeat your, repeat it. And also I do it go to Instagram, something that was like a real a couple months ago is now a carousel post.
Yep. Something that was a carousel post is now a real and something that works really well. I'm expanding on in stories. But it's the same things. And so we call them kinesthetic triggers. What are these little phrases that you can say over and over again that help you talk about it, but you're gonna be repeating it over and over again. So that's where we have to get comfortable with that and find those kind of fun triggers so that you can talk about those things over and over again within your niche.
I'm so going through c s again this year. I'm rerecording stuff too. So you're in for a real treat. I know, I'm totally there. Yeah. I'm rerecording email and content creation. I'm rerecording website. So we have like tons of cool stuff. Yeah. So many cool things. Is there anything you wish people knew more about this? Yeah,
it's about what we've been talking about, which is give yourself the gift of being a specialist and a sea of generalists. Like, Google's gonna love you, you're gonna be profitable. Give yourself the gift of making money in this sea of saturation and be able and wherever that it, wherever a place that's gonna help you do that. I'm never gonna say there's a magic bean for your business,
but if you can get clear on what you do, how you help people, how to bring yourself to the forefront and make sure you have that very specific ideal client language that supports that it, it can only enhance any strategy that you're working on, any platform that you're on, it's only going to help you and you'll use it again and again and can be infused everywhere.
So if there's one thing that I could drill home to people is give yourself the gift of doing this work, whether it's with me, it's with someone else, whoever you resonate with. But being able to get clear on this, like you always said, this is the year. It's like no, this is definitely the time. You know, they would say like,
the best time to plant a tree, my husband says it's in, it annoys that crap out of me. Cause you know I had breast cancer last year and so I talk about, gosh, I wish I eaten better in my twenties. I was like, you know, an actor and like living off Dunking Donuts, you know, and my husband said this thing to me in the fall right before like my second cancer surgery and I was like,
I may listen, I still love are okay. Said no back at Christmas I was like, was like, Eric, I need a dunking hot chocolate, not any hot chocolate. I need to go to the mecca of hot chocolate and that is Dunking Donuts, so gimme me. Please go there. But I, my husband said to me, he annoyed the crap out me.
I literally remember I had to go back in for second surgery cause they didn't get it all the first time. So you can imagine I was not, it was my anniversary, my wedding anniversary, I was like, I was emotional basket case. Husband's like, you know, listen, the best time to plant a tree was a hundred years ago and the next best time is today.
That would be. And I was like, wow. Never ee me again. Yeah, I'm serving you your divorce papers. But also you're so right. It's like, so when people go, gosh, I wish I'd gotten more specific before, or I'm tule whatever. Yeah. Hello. I mean I really, I was an actor. I went and spent $178,000 at Harvard University to get my MFA in acting.
Nobody felt more like, oh my god, this is plan B and my list is what it's gotten me than me in my mid thirties. Like I didn't have kids. We were like, we just didn't have any money. I was so much in debt and I remember just being like, well crap, this is plan B, but there could be no plan C.
It was the idea that like, yeah, okay I should have planted the tree a hundred years ago, but I'm doing it now. So when you give yourself that gift of creating that messaging now there's just no such thing as being too late. People are, there's, it's just no such thing anymore. I mean look at J-Lo, she's like in her fifties looking like she's 25 married,
terrible guy she dated 20 years ago. There's no such thing. Your time arrives when your time is right. You're gonna have to thank Eric for that quote cuz I think, oh it drives Me nuts. That's gonna go. Yeah, but it's a good one. It's So good. It's so good. No, I say it to people with the preface of being like listening.
Derek said this to Me and it really annoyed the crap Outta me, but it's so true. Yeah, yeah. No it's so true. I love that. Side note. Going back to your side note, I love that you had the Dunkin tie-in because when Crystal and I met, we met in another online community and that's actually where we met. So we have a very special place in our hearts.
Yeah, I know. I'm working my way over to tea. I've seen you doing it with Earl Gray forever. So I'm working my way over to tea. Yeah, it took me a while, but I can do it. I was just gonna say so many aspirations, you know, but for today it's coffee. Maybe tomorrow it will be tea.
I forgot what everything I was gonna tie in. But this has been incredible. Is anything else that we didn't hit On? No, I think we covered like, you know how seo, how getting clear on your message can only support this. That it's usually something like Crystal was such a great example of this. Like it's usually something that's like either I'll say this,
this is gonna be really helpful for people. I saw people that you fall into two camps, you are either what we call the Atticus Finch, which is taken from to kill mock mode. Or you fall into the practical magic category in the Atticus Finch category. It's when Atticus says to scout, you don't know what it's like to be another until you crawl into another man's skin and walk around for a while.
That's usually if you fall into that camp of like, hey, I was once where you were, which is like, hey, in the example we gave of our migraine coach was this is a person who I suffered from migraines, figure out a system for them and now they help other people do the same boom. They all know the Atticus French category.
Then there's the practical magic category where they like knock on the doors to like, you know, the three aunts to get the potion that's gonna help them. And that's the kind of like, Hey, I've always been really great at this. And so I kind of fall like copy Marisa really falls into that category of like, Hey, I've always been great at helping people take this and apply.
So this would apply to you Brittany, as a ca, you know, as a PACE study writer. So a lot of times in an Atticus Finch category, people will kind of fight that in themselves sometimes, but it's like, oh actually that's where it lies. And even if you fall into this category of the, I've always had a knack, it still doesn't mean that you should leave whatever you were doing before on the table.
So that's why I talk about like the actors guide to Copy so much is taken from my actor world. So we also help people in the society, we call it your credibility star. It's a bonus in module one, which is really about how to connect those things from like your life before your business and how they actually really go in your business. Whether it's a signature story or it's one of your frameworks.
So just remembering that so much of you really is what makes your business come alive in either one of those categories. Or sometimes it might be a little bit of a a combo, but usually one leads leads the way. Yeah, the credibility star was, even as you were talking about it, like I have such fond memories of that thing because I massaged a copywriting.
Like what? So you have to figure out how to say that and what to pull from that. Like what from massage therapy goes in with copywriting. And actually a lot does, but I needed that exercise to figure out exactly what it was. Yeah. So yeah, for the credibility start, I love it too. Yeah, Well it seems pretty obvious to me that understanding your messaging is just gonna make your SEO game,
you know, a thousand times stronger. So, and you can start that. Where can they start that Marisa? Yeah, so right now, as we're we're when this airs, we're doing the leave and wanting more masterclass, which is the three part framework to whip up irresistible copy with creativity and chutzpah. And inside of this class we're gonna talk about a lot of what we talked about here more.
More in depth is how do you bring yourself, so we said people make purchasing decisions based on two things. How you know it was what you're selling, something that I want. So the second part of the class is devoted to really diving into the proton pack messaging playbook and showing you examples and how to insert your stuff into the four Ps. And then the second part,
which is the first part in the class, which is, you know, are you the person that I wanna do it with? And so I'm gonna give you access to what we call in the society, which is the copy stars. And there's five to choose from. It can be a combo, you can be a triplet. There's the hooker with the heart of gold,
the nastic leader. And the whole idea is it gives you a barometer so that if you ever feel like you're dipping into the sea of sassiness online or you're not bringing your personality, you can bring yourself back to that. Brittany, what's your copy star? I was a mashup. We know for sure I'm a cheerleader. I'm a relentless cheerleader. Hundred percent.
I'm trying to think. There was something else. A nerd leader. It wasn't fantastic. What was it For Hema? I might have been the hooker with the heart of Gold. With the relentless cheerleader. With the relentless. That's your, I came up with some funky name. I'll put it in the show notes. I'll find it. Okay, cool.
Cool. And so the whole Crystal for sure goes into the nerd leader. She's even like lighting up as You said it. Yeah. And so how do we actually lean into that, right? When you see all these big bombastic personalities online, you're like, well how do I lean into what my strong points are? You know, so like I'm a hooker with a heart of gold.
I don't necessarily need to buy from other hookers with a heart of gold. I need like nastic leaders in my life cuz my brain just doesn't think like that. So the more that people are actually being themselves, right? So we cover the copy stars and then we also talk about okay, how do you apply that to copy so you're not staring at a blank page.
So the the third part of the class is devoted to what we call in the society, the six post prompts and how you could take some of these motifs and have like six different ways to talk about it. And this is a live class with me. It is not prerecorded. There's three different dates and times to choose from. I always say it's like Broadway.
So you know, choose the date and time that works for you, but it's live with me. The class itself is about 60 minutes, but I always stay on for like a half hour, 45 minutes after that to answer questions. And I will give you an opportunity to join the Copy Confidence Society during this class. Cause I believe so strongly in this community and the system.
But no matter what you decide, I know that you'll walk away just like we did with Crystal today with some really key things that you could get started on right away. And no matter if you join the society or not, there are some like call only bonuses for the society. So if you have been thinking about joining the society, come to the call.
Cause you get access to these really, really cool bonuses. But whether you join or not, I'm gonna actually gift to you the proton pack messaging playbook. Like you're gonna get it, you're gonna be able to walk yourself through it. I know You have to be there Crystal. You will be there. It'll be there. You're gonna be there. So I do have to say,
cuz I feel like some people are like, oh there's no replay. Like there is legit no replay. This is not a drill. Like you have to show This is not a drill. No I don't, there's no replay. I give you three different dates and times to choose from. I'll tell you a surprise. There is a fourth one, the fourth is a pop-up on a Monday that I do in the Facebook group.
We were gonna add a fourth class, but we started, we talked about this before we started recording, we're moving. So I gotta be out of our house. So if I had the fourth class is an actual class, I'd have to, this is just like inter behind the scenes of a business. I'd have to extend the car open and I can't because I'm not gonna be,
you know, we we're on the road so we're gonna keep that fourth class as a pop-up that I'll do through the Facebook group, like sign off. Cuz there is gonna be that fourth class, but there is no recording. It's like Broadway. You can't record, you can't record Broadway. You dunno if you know that like people, unless they air it like on a TV thing,
yeah you have to like go to the library at Lincoln Center and like give your card. You can't go in when you go in to watch it. Like you can't bring anything in with you that I didn't. But we do it this way because I give you the proton pack messaging playbook for being there. I'm there live to answer questions with you. And I also think that in the time that we're living in right now,
like having that space for like actual connection, like what we just did with Crystal, like yes Crystal could watch the replay for sure, but where we're really gonna get to me helping you, and I mean this, whether you join the program or not, is to be there to ask questions in the comments. So me, the team, the relentless cheerleader captains,
which Brittany is one of them, can support you and help you actually get something out of a masterclass as opposed to just signing up, not watching it, not using it. So we make it a live experience like, like Broadway. So don your, you know, get your Broadway outfit on, bring a drink. Thank you, let's do It.
It's incredible. And I, I will say just like from my own personal experience, I went to it once I went to the masterclass month, I got so much out of it. I put stuff into action. I didn't join the Society the first round. I did join the second round and it was, you know, equally as good the second time that I watched through things because I still got more and then I got inside the society and I still got over.
Yeah, like you can't mess up by coming to this and just like gleaning from it what you need right now, whether or not you join, but like you're gonna get something good and I'll beit all four of 'em. So come say hi. I hang out in the chat box like all the time. Yay. Yeah. Yay. Where else can people find you?
Yeah, I also think like if you listen to today and you really loved it, like DM me on Instagram, I'm at m Tony t o n, I like Tony Braxton and if you DM me, like I will respond back to you and just love to hear if there's something that you took away from today or heard in a different way or you know,
if you too like the Ghostbusters or any of these references that we talked about, let me know. I'd love connections. Okay. What else? Is there anything else? Did we forget anything else? This is my very professional way to close this thing out. No, we're good. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so Fun.
I know, this was great. It really was like a mini masterclass through the masterclass. Yeah, Pharrell, thank you. I can't wait to listen to it again. So thank you. It's so nice to meet you. And that's so nice to meet you. You guys may or may not see the video, but Marissa is beautiful too. My gosh.
You're really supportive. I mean, thank you. I'm gonna chase that in. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And I knew you're gonna be great because Bee always brings in like really sweet people. So I'm looking forward to the masterclass. I will be there. Yes you will. You there? Oh, I'm so happy. Great. I'm dragging you.
Sweet. All right y'all, we'll cut you on the next episode and tag us if you feel like you learned anything, gained anything from this, we'll put all of the Instagram handle situations in the show notes. Alrighty, bye. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this info, subscribe before you go so you never miss out on something related to seo.
See you next time.